Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
1,879,250
MMX is probably closer to BT4 than a pure dungeon crawler like Grimrock or Elminage and unfortunately, it didn't sell well either. inXile does have more exposure with its titles than what Ubisoft did for MMX, so who knows, it may still be a surprise hit. The BT4 Kickstarter already did better than many naysayers were expecting.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
And even at its most dumbed-down and streamlined form, a game about a party of 8 characters exploring a maze-like dungeon in 1st person, solving puzzles and fighting in TB battles seems unpalatable for modern audiences...

This is an important difference, but Inxile and Obsidian strategies were somewhat similar. They both used oldschool ex-players and aged jornous to promote their Kickstarter and securing funding, but they were aiming a bigger audience all along. Make no mistake, they will mercilessly and progressively dumb down the game during the development. If the past decisions of Inxile regarding T:ToN and health bars are reliable indicators, as soon as they realize that most players can’t understand some mechanic or puzzle they will simple remove them completely. At the end of the day, BT will be an uninspired action game but will sell a lot because it has pretty graphics. The butthurt among blobbers enthusiasts will be glorious. I will laugh at codexers who are praising Inxile as our saviors after the Pillars fiasco.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
Bard's Tale is less in danger of being dumbed down than Wasteland was by proxy of Fallout.

I agree though, it's not going to be super deep mechanically and the fact that skills don't have ranks already hints at that. No way the skill trees will be so large in the end product either (especially the many skills that don't count toward a specialization).

Still, blobbers don't need to be super deep. And what they have said so far about the combat actually sounds good. It will be similar to PoE in that any difficulty except the hardest can be beaten without strategy, though it's going to be interesting to see if there's going to be a hardcore mode where enemies act more intelligently.
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,332
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
Pure combat game = action game.

If you mean a game is combat focused, or combat orientated, or has a lot of combat, then say so. But the term "action" has an entirely separate connotation involving speed, reflexes and player manual skill. In other words, Action. And that is distinguished from the more cerebral experience that is a turn-based role-playing game.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
I agree, but if the turn-based system end up being streamlined, it will not be that cerebral.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
That came out wrong. Of course, I think that combat focused games are not cRPGs, but that doesn’t matter that much, because I also appreciate combat focused games, especially if they have interesting character building and are turn-based. However, if the game have shallow mechanics, than it can be considered a mere action game, in the sense that is a combat focused game with little resemblance to action games with character building and solid combat system.
 
Last edited:

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Or one might define an action game as a game where the gameplay is action or at least action-related. I donno, just a thought.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
IT LIVES: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/the-bards-tale-iv/posts/1693725



Greetings, Adventurers! Nathan Long here, lead writer on Bard's Tale IV. Today I'm here to present something special to you. It's been a while since we last showed you video of the game, and now we want to give you a brand new glimpse into the world of Caith running in-engine.

This clip is meant to illustrate the tone that we are looking to capture for our environments and creatures in The Bard's Tale IV – a captivating and expansive landscape for you to explore, and a menagerie of creatures inspired by myth and Celtic folklore. We’ve also been feverishly working on the combat system and have made some amazing progress, but we don’t want to show our hand on it quite yet. For now I hope this gets your imaginations running wild and sets the mood for what I'd like to talk to you about today.

A Grappling Hook in My Hand and a Song in My Heart
Recently, lead designer David Rogers and I have been working on what we've been calling the "Adventuring Tools and Content Keys" systems for the game, and for this update we thought we'd share some details about how it all works.

Basically, what the adventuring tools and content keys do is give us some control over how you explore and experience the world of Bard's Tale IV. Now, right from the beginning, we made the decision that BTIV would be a game of free exploration. You'd be able to go in any direction you chose, ignore the main story to do side quests if that's what tickled your fancy, or just noodle around and find cool stuff. We therefore made Skara Brae and the land it resides in, Caith, big places with lots of space and lots of story, scenery and secrets to get lost in. Skara Brae is a city now, with multiple levels of sewers, catacombs, and crypts below it, while the lands that surround it are vast and varied, with broad fields, haunted villages, deep forests, treacherous fens, and looming mountains, all riddled with caves, ruins, dungeons, and hidden places, all ripe for exploration.

However, another decision we made early on was that we didn't want you to be able to grind through any of these areas all in one go. We wanted there to be doors you couldn't open the first time you found them, or rivers you couldn't cross, or ruins you could see but not reach. We wanted there to be mysteries that you couldn't unlock until you'd traveled to new areas and learned new things. We wanted to make sure there were always places you wanted to come back to, and that returning to previously explored lands would always be rewarding and fun, unlocking new areas, secret content, interesting lore, and of course, awesome loot.

So how to have it both ways? How do we make a world with a good amount of free exploration that at the same time keeps some content hidden, and do it in a way that doesn't feel artificial or unfair? Well, there are lots of ways, some simple and direct, some more subtle and writer-y, (I get to do those bits!) which act as the gates and keys of Bard's Tale IV. Let’s have a look at the main ones.

David Note: Writers are always speaking in fluffy generalities. I'll be popping into this update now and then to give you some cold hard facts.

Level Keys - One Does Not Simply Walk Into Mordor
Some areas won't be locked away behind an actual physical door, and you won't need a physical key to get into them. They'll just be too much for you to handle at your current level. If you walk into a new area and find that you're getting your ass handed to you by every enemy who gives you the stink-eye, that's a clue to come back later, once you've toughened up and upgraded your gear. Of course you might be a sneaky sort, able to dodge your way through enemy patrols to snag some serious swag, but you do so at your own risk. We accept no liability for any party wipes that may occur if you go around trying to punch above your weight.

David Note: This is one of the classic ways computer games keep you out of an area temporarily. The way level gating in Bard’s Tale IV differs from other RPGs is our willingness to have a pockets of high level enemies living inside low level areas. Consider them a signpost, letting you know that there are high level rewards to come back to once you're strong enough to fight your way past the gatekeepers.

And to elaborate on sneaking and patrols, in BTIV, enemies will often be found guarding various locations, walking patrol routes, or hiding in ambush. These enemies have zones of perception that show where their attention is focused, and these zones can be tip-toed around by an adventuring party with good timing, or stealthed through with the help of a sneaky rogue. If you're spotted, enemies will get the jump on you, putting you at a disadvantage. However, you can get the jump on them by attacking from behind, causing front row enemies to switch to the back row and back row enemies to switch to the front, exposing their weakest group members and putting their melee troops out of range. Ambushing in this way also guarantees your party the first turn in combat.

Tool Keys - The Right Tool For The Job
When exploring dungeons, some secret passages, shortcuts, or hidden rooms require a certain tool to enter. Sometimes it'll be a simple key or lock-pick kit. Other times it will be something rarer or more unusual. An inaccessible ledge becomes scalable only if you equip a grappling hook. A ten-foot pole sets off the traps that keep you from getting to the door at the end of a hallway. Igniting some Demon Dust blows a hole in a weakened sewer wall, revealing a new area. Once you learn what tool you need to bypass each obstacle, you'll begin to see other instances of that obstacle scattered throughout the world, and you'll know what to stock up on the next time you visit Garth's Equipment Shop.

David Note: These kinds of keys, what we're calling Adventuring Tools, are how we lock off hidden content. When visiting a vendor, we want you to think about purchasing some of these tools before delving into your next dungeon, on the chance that the reward for using them will be greater than the investment, or that it will make an otherwise difficult fight easier or entirely avoidable.

Song Keys - Music Will Set You Free
As befits a game with Bard in the title, music plays a large part in all aspects of BTIV's gameplay, from combat to puzzle solving to storytelling - and also, of course, exploration. From the Highroad Whistle that allows you to travel from one circle of standing stones to another, to the Smuggler's Lament, which grants you access to secret passages known only to members of the criminal underground, songs will get you into and out of all kinds of places. Some will reveal secret caches.

Some will open portals to new worlds. Some let faction leaders know you're a friend, so they'll show you their secret stores. Some are musical spells that cause waters to recede or broken bridges to reassemble, allowing you to cross into new areas.

The trick is finding and learning these songs. Some will be taught to you by your companions. Some you'll learn from quest givers, or find written out in ancient books. Some you will have to fight through the deepest dungeons to acquire. They will all be worth it. The more songs you learn, the more the world will open up to you.

David Note: So, there's an actual system to this, which we're calling Songs of Exploration. You have a song book (basically an inventory) where songs you've learned are listed, and when confronted with a broken bridge, or a bit of Trow graffiti, or a circle of standing stones, you can open the book and click on the appropriate song. The song then plays (a quick little riff) and the bridge reassembles, a cache opens, or the standing stone quick travel menu appears. Ta-da!

Lore Keys - Knowledge Opens Many Doors
The final kind of key is the key of knowledge. Histories read in books, rumors overheard in conversations, or relics found in ancient chambers, all can give the clever player answers to puzzles or riddles they can find nowhere else. Temples, sacred crypts, storehouses of powerful weapons and spells, all might be locked away behind a question or a map or a diagram, or a rune which requires translation. The knowledge needed to solve the puzzle will be out there somewhere. You only have to find it - and figure out what it means.

David Note: To spell this out, there is side content in the game that you will not be able to complete - or even find! - without reading the lore you find and using your brain to figure out what it means and how it applies to the world and the puzzles that abound in it. Lore comes from readable books you find in the game, as well as notes, drawings, ancient songs, inscribed weapons, and murals painted on dungeon walls, all of which can be examined up close and in detail. Nothing along the main storyline is hidden behind these more esoteric puzzles, but plenty of cool stuff will be. Cleverness will be rewarded.

Happy Exploring
Thus, to sum up, there are four kinds of keys in Bard's Tale IV - physical, musical, mental, and straight up being strong enough to fight your way in - and mastering all four is the best way to unlock and explore all of the wide, wild, wondrous world of Caith.

David Note: Good luck, Adventurers! The world of Caith awaits!
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Oh look, the decline squad is on the march in the comments again:

I will have to agree with the others myself.
Backtracking to explore new content in modern gaming sounds as much of a chore as trying to complete all the Steam achievements for the game.
Secondly, having to get my butt kicked (or get my butt semi-kicked in any case) to find out if i can deal with those random monsters who annoy me on area completion (and not managing to clear an area being a given as it seems) is also something i find equally disturbing.
I like and appreciate a lot the other mechanics and really adored the video, as well as the way of explaining how they would work. Nice job there!
But so as to keep my message on the side of constructive criticism, i would be VERY careful on how to approach your level keys and the backtracking approach, as many games have tried it, and for the most case, it did not turn out to be a fun element of the experience.!
Peace!

:retarded:
 

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
11,003
Location
USSR
All nature assets ripped from Boy and his Kite. Temporal AA. Thank god I got a refund in time. This is not what I was hoping for when I backed. I was expecting much more professional things of them.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,762
4o879pM.jpg


edit: I just hope the dungeon maps are something near a wizardry level of complex.
 

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
11,003
Location
USSR
Rewatched it 3 times again. I'm blown away by how shitty this is. If someone posted a video like that saying "hey guys I'm making a game, check out my vid" on ue4 forums, people would be saying "watch some more digitaltutor vids, you souldn't be making levels before you know how to do them". They're bland. The trip to Scotland was that they'd end up using free ue4 nature pack? Don't they have an artistic vision for the nature at all? Ever saw how Witcher 3 looks? They spent a year doing this? I'm amazed. Temporal AA? Is this 2012 or something? You want TXAA when you're shoving a pair of big boobs into the player's face, not when you're showing fine detail like stalks of grass and leaves. I don't understand, who's working at inxile? Did Fargo snort coke for the entire 2 millions and left them with nothing?
 

Mustawd

Guest
Isn't BT4 still a long way off? This is just a tech demo/teaser, which looks really good to me by the way.

Also, why are you comparing Witcher 3 to BT4? The amount of resources is not close to being comparable.
 

imweasel

Guest
The trailer music man. I feel like I am visiting a funeral. :M

Zero gameplay. Looks like a relatively low budget game... Yep. That is about it.
 

Bester

⚰️☠️⚱️
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
11,003
Location
USSR
Isn't BT4 still a long way off? This is just a tech demo/teaser, which looks really good to me by the way.

Also, why are you comparing Witcher 3 to BT4? The amount of resources is not close to being comparable.
The artists' workflow is the same whether you're making Witcher 3 or BT4. Witcher 3 simply has more stuff - a shitload of cutscenes with mocap, much more areas, gameplay, everything, which costs more. With BT4 you're making a small cozy game, but that doesn't mean you have to make or use shit assets.

And I can analyze only what they give me. Had they given me gameplay, I'd talk about that. If they show me graphics (saying "I hope this gets your imaginations running wild"), and their assets all look like shit, level design is shit, technology they're using is shit (costs nothing to switch to MSAA), all I can say is they're disappointingly incompetent. If they're incompetent at this and don't see that what they've made is shit, they're most likely incompetent at everything else.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Can you make a comparison in graphics between this and a AA game you think does a better job?

Not disagreeing that it looks worse than W3, which it does, but I'm having a hard time thinking of a AA game that BT4 really looks worse than.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Can you make a comparison in graphics between this and a AA game you think does a better job?
Sure. Kingdom Come.

Fair enough. Though the previous BT4 video looked much better than what was shown in Infinitron's post today. Which I find a bit strange.


Still, the graphical fidelity of it is more than serviceable to me, which is why I said it looks pretty good.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

SO, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS.
Patron
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
3,348
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands
That tree toad wart dragon thing. :prosper:

Landscapes looked nice enough. I wanted to explore them.
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
12,787
Oh look, the decline squad is on the march in the comments again:

I will have to agree with the others myself.
Backtracking to explore new content in modern gaming sounds as much of a chore as trying to complete all the Steam achievements for the game.
Secondly, having to get my butt kicked (or get my butt semi-kicked in any case) to find out if i can deal with those random monsters who annoy me on area completion (and not managing to clear an area being a given as it seems) is also something i find equally disturbing.
I like and appreciate a lot the other mechanics and really adored the video, as well as the way of explaining how they would work. Nice job there!
But so as to keep my message on the side of constructive criticism, i would be VERY careful on how to approach your level keys and the backtracking approach, as many games have tried it, and for the most case, it did not turn out to be a fun element of the experience.!
Peace!

:retarded:

These are the kind of people that see an almost straight corridor and think "what a mighty fine level we have here, but hopefully there won't be too many turns and twists, I can only take so much complexity"
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom