Does Avernum Escape from the Pit stand alone well?

[PulsatingBrain]

I was thinking of buying it, but then read that it's a remake of a remake of an old series, with only 1 and 2 updated to the most recent remake versions. So does Escape feel like a full game by itself?

 

[Pope Amole II]

Play 5 and 6 - all Vogel's games are designed to stand alone well and they're just much better.

 

[mondblut]

Play Exile.

 

[Scroo]

The Avernum 1 remake was the first Vogel game I ever played and I had a blast. Super atmospheric, lots of exploration - combat is a bit meh but still. Highly recommended even as a standalone game

 

[Jrpgfan]

I'm playing Geneforge 5 and having a lot of fun. Really nice game with good writing, tons of C&C and a solid combat system.

I was thinking about playing Avernum next but don't know which one, so this thread is relevant to my interests.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Crystal Souls is mechanically better, so you might as well just play that. Either way they're both fun games. The setting and exploration is great, just like in Geneforge.

 

[Mustawd]

I was thinking of buying it, but then read that it's a remake of a remake of an old series, with only 1 and 2 updated to the most recent remake versions. So does Escape feel like a full game by itself?

Yes, each is a standalone game. Avernum: EfTP is ~ 35-60 hours depending on how you play.

 

[PulsatingBrain]

Thanks guys I think I'll go ahead and buy it then

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Great game. Open-world, non-level scaled, challenging, atmospheric, etc.. It hits all the notes of a classic RPG. Definitely a standalone RPG.

I personally like to play RPG series like this starting with the first game when possible. Then you have more of an appreciation for the lore, world-building, etc., by later entries in the series. Also, since Avernum 1-6 already exist, it might be worth taking a peek at those if you get really interested in the series. Just a thought.

 

[RuySan]

It's quite good, but combat suffers from to much HP boat, specially on bosses. Like most Vogel games, it becomes a chore near the end.

The setting and writing is top notch

 

[Tacgnol]

It's quite good, but combat suffers from to much HP boat, specially on bosses. Like most Vogel games, it becomes a chore near the end.

The setting and writing is top notch

Funnily enough, in his earlier games (Exile Series, Avernum 1-3, first couple of Geneforge etc), Vogel relied less on HP and damage bloat to increase challenge.

I mean they still suffered from it, but to a much lesser extent. I'm guessing it was laziness that pushed him towards increasing challenge that way.

 

[Hobo Elf]

It's not just the HP bloat, Vogel also loves to spam the fuck out of adds during boss fights as well. Boss fights are the one area where Vogel completely sucks dick. The only way he knows how to make them challenging is to have one super souped up enemy that deals a ton of AoE damage, has lots of HP and keeps summoning minions. It's super tedious as this is nearly every single boss fights in his games starting from Geneforge 2, 3 or 4, can't remember the exact moment. Worst of all his AI don't have any patterns, so with bad luck they could spam the shit out of their AoE for a few turns in a row and completely mess you up, or hardly use it at all in another try.

I'd be very happy if he completely dropped the idea of boss fights altogether as he seems to be incapable of making them good (he's had more than a decade time to try).

 

[Sizzle]

That, as well as: "You get the boss to 75/50/25% health, he uses an item to gain greater power/chugs a potion of invlunuhaste/summons a dozen minions!"

It's all very predictable and samey.

 

[Doktor Best]

Yeah Vogel games are flawed, all of them. But so are 99,99% of all other rpgs ever made. Nonetheless the gameplay value you get out of vogel games is tremendous for the price he is asking, believe me.

GoG has them on sale right now. Avernum 1-6 and Geneforge 1-6 for a little over 6 bucks together. Thats ridiculous.

 

[MediantSamuel]

GoG has them on sale right now. Avernum 1-6 and Geneforge 1-6 for a little over 6 bucks together. Thats ridiculous.

Good shout, friend.

Is it worth playing them all starting from Avernum 1?

 

[Mustawd]

Yes, IMO.

 

[garren]

I always have lots of fun playing in the beginning of almost any vogel game, but like others said the tedium near the end gets almost unbearable. All the enemy encounters should be cut in half at least in the final third of the game.

 

[Mustawd]

Yah encounter design was always Vogel's weak point. One of these days I should try Exile. I heard the 6 man party made combat more fun.

mondblut , you've played the Exile games right? How are they? Can you compare them to the Avernums (if you played them ofc)?

 

[ilitarist]

I haven't played Avernum 1 yet but Geneforge 5 was good. Avadon is a grind, but Avernum 4-6 which I played didn't felt that slow.

 

[ilitarist]

Is it worth playing them all starting from Avernum 1?

There are only 5 of Geneforge games. I played Geneforge 4 a little and it was OK, but Geneforge 5 was better. IIRC only Avernum 6 and Geneforge 5 allow for resolution change and support widescreen, previous games were 4:3 which felt annoying to me even though I completed Avernum 4 and 5. I'd say you'll be fine playing Avernum 6 - it's the last in the series chronologically but you lose nothing by playing it first, same with Geneforge 5. Avernum Escape from the Deep is a remake of Avernum 1 and it has some updated mechanics compared to previous games.

Geneforge 5 alone absolutely is worth of those 6 bucks even if you don't touch other games.

 

[mondblut]

Yah encounter design was always Vogel's weak point. One of these days I should try Exile. I heard the 6 man party made combat more fun.

mondblut , you've played the Exile games right? How are they? Can you compare them to the Avernums (if you played them ofc)?

Better. 6 characters, tons of spells with actual areas of effect instead of popamole "hit everyone", keyword-based dialogue.

 

[RuySan]

GoG has them on sale right now. Avernum 1-6 and Geneforge 1-6 for a little over 6 bucks together. Thats ridiculous.

Good shout, friend.

Is it worth playing them all starting from Avernum 1?

Vogel's games are so huge and samey that you'll eventually burn out. I'm more into Avernum than Geneforge, since i value exploration more than story, but his writing is very good. The Avernum 1 remake (Exile second remake) is probably the best place to start.

You better download Autohotkey though, because these games interfaces are the worst.

 

[Mustawd]

Vogel's games are so huge and samey that you'll eventually burn out.

Yah, you definitely don't want to play them in a row.

 

[MediantSamuel]

I started with Escape from the Pit in the end, figured a recent remake would have bug & engine fixes and so on that would make it more worthwhile.

I'm actually really enjoying it; it's simple (at least so far) but charming.

I have a level 4 party that consists of a soldier, rogue, priest and sorceror. Any noob traps to avoid or things to watch out for?

 

[pippin]

If you run into stuff that will overpower you, you'll kinda know it. For the time beign I'd say you should avoid the big Dragon and the lizard's lair.