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12 reasons why F2 is a bad Fallout game

Vatnik
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That doesn't justify the game being an absolute eye-sore to look at. I'm not someone that needs triple A graphics to enjoy a game. Fallout 2 with the restoration project has crisper resolution than BG, the issue is literally the art. I don't want to stare at this,
Show Spoiler
maxresdefault.jpg

for any period of time longer than I need too. It's not even the way shit's drawn, it's just the fact that everything is so brown for no fucking reason.
Sorry but the art is fine here. It may be that you just dont like brown colour for some reason.
I remember reading in school about an autistic kid who hated the colours brown and yellow:lol:
 

Martyr

Arcane
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Jan 28, 2018
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Bavaria
one doesn't have to
- be autistic
- hate a color
to dislike a certain visual style :roll:

one example:
green is my favorite color, yet I think this doesn't look very good:
hqdefault.jpg

I don't necessarily "like" blue, but this looks pretty amazing:
icyambush.jpg
 

Squid

Arbiter
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
536
ItsChon obviously dislikes deserts.
He's not saying he dislikes the games' settings, just everything in game, even rectangular buildings.
everything looks hideous

The art direction is bad.

That doesn't justify the game being an absolute eye-sore to look at.

it's just the fact that everything is so brown for no fucking reason.

for some reason Fallout 1 and 2 just look like dog shit to me. Maybe it'd look better if the buildings weren't literally rectangles



he just doesn't want to stare at a game that is 90% brown and 10% grey.
He doesn't mind the color apparently, as you see it's the entire art style and direction.
Primordia is a game that's primarily brown and it looks infinitely better than FO 1 & 2.
 

azimuth

Educated
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
84
As someone who grew up with and loves Fallout 2, I've always thought Arroyo -> Den was the least interesting part of the game. The Klamath rat dungeon in particular is mind-numbing. My favourite sections are all post-Den, which of course is like 80-90% of the game. The Den and Klamath don't play into any of the overarching politics or cool interfactional politics at all, except maybe the Slavers' Guild to some extent.

The best parts for me are the rivalries between the various big cities and the way the smaller towns get swept up in it all. Unraveling the various plots to nab Redding through jet addiction or nab Vault City via Cold War-style merc pressure are the meat of the game. Everybody remembers the tension between Gecko and Vault City or spying on the Salvatores meeting in secret with the Enclave. That's really what the game's about IMO -- that and the ability to have a real choice in what happens in these struggles.

ItsChon, I know you're 18 and predisposed to hate the game for some reason, but I'd boot it back up and push through to New Reno. In lore terms, it's retarded, but it's also one of the most interesting parts of the game and jam-packed with seedy plots and politics.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut
As someone who grew up with and loves Fallout 2, I've always thought Arroyo -> Den was the least interesting part of the game. The Klamath rat dungeon in particular is mind-numbing. My favourite sections are all post-Den, which of course is like 80-90% of the game. The Den and Klamath don't play into any of the overarching politics or cool interfactional politics at all, except maybe the Slavers' Guild to some extent.

The best parts for me are the rivalries between the various big cities and the way the smaller towns get swept up in it all. Unraveling the various plots to nab Redding through jet addiction or nab Vault City via Cold War-style merc pressure are the meat of the game. Everybody remembers the tension between Gecko and Vault City or spying on the Salvatores meeting in secret with the Enclave. That's really what the game's about IMO -- that and the ability to have a real choice in what happens in these struggles.

ItsChon, I know you're 18 and predisposed to hate the game for some reason, but I'd boot it back up and push through to New Reno. In lore terms, it's retarded, but it's also one of the most interesting parts of the game and jam-packed with seedy plots and politics.
Doesn't help that you also have the temple of trials before that.
The beginning of FO2 is a complete slog.
 

Master

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
1,160
That doesn't justify the game being an absolute eye-sore to look at. I'm not someone that needs triple A graphics to enjoy a game. Fallout 2 with the restoration project has crisper resolution than BG, the issue is literally the art. I don't want to stare at this,
Show Spoiler
maxresdefault.jpg

for any period of time longer than I need too. It's not even the way shit's drawn, it's just the fact that everything is so brown for no fucking reason.
Sorry but the art is fine here. It may be that you just dont like brown colour for some reason.
I remember reading in school about an autistic kid who hated the colours brown and yellow:lol:
Like that guy from the Cube. "This room is green"/"This game is brown"
 

mfkndggrfll

Learned
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
546
As someone who grew up with and loves Fallout 2, I've always thought Arroyo -> Den was the least interesting part of the game. The Klamath rat dungeon in particular is mind-numbing. My favourite sections are all post-Den, which of course is like 80-90% of the game. The Den and Klamath don't play into any of the overarching politics or cool interfactional politics at all, except maybe the Slavers' Guild to some extent.

The best parts for me are the rivalries between the various big cities and the way the smaller towns get swept up in it all. Unraveling the various plots to nab Redding through jet addiction or nab Vault City via Cold War-style merc pressure are the meat of the game. Everybody remembers the tension between Gecko and Vault City or spying on the Salvatores meeting in secret with the Enclave. That's really what the game's about IMO -- that and the ability to have a real choice in what happens in these struggles.

ItsChon, I know you're 18 and predisposed to hate the game for some reason, but I'd boot it back up and push through to New Reno. In lore terms, it's retarded, but it's also one of the most interesting parts of the game and jam-packed with seedy plots and politics.

Thing actually get worse and worse as you progress past the Den.

VC was to me the best town as far as art style and lore goes, but everything else in it was dull. No interesting NPCs, a bunch of fedex quests with no moral ambiguity. I still remember the first time I hit VC, I was amazed, I was like ''This is it! This is the part where F2 becomes a proper Fallout game!''. I was wrong.

NCR also had an interesting background stuff but everything else about it was flawed. Most of the named NPCs were some bad jokes/references, quests were also uninteresting.

The rest isnt even worth talking about.
 
Vatnik
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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
I think it's fair to say Fallout 2 IS shit in parts, but it more than makes up for it in the game as a whole.
Shit visuals often, but some locations are very cool and it captures the feel and theme of the wasteland well
Shit start to the game but it gets really good later
A little too much humour and references but it's not a big deal
SHIT combat in terms of ''muh tactics'' but who cares when you get to see all those gory deaths and blow shit up?
Main quest was obviously written by communist hippy libtards who hate america, but the execution of the questline was good and there were really nice sidequests, and plenty of them

etc
 

azimuth

Educated
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
84
Not much in that post to sink my teeth into as it's so vague. I already talked about how the Bishop / Moore / NCR / Vault City angle is about as morally ambiguous as it gets, but you ignored that post, so...

I mean, the entirety of VC is a big moral question mark. They're benevolent slavers who have a lot of tech on their hands, but they're hoarding it from the masses. On the one hand, their exclusivity ensures that there's a stable, civilized, safe hub in the wasteland -- but not for everybody. Open their doors and everything could be diluted to nothing as the masses fight over the relatively little bit of tech on hand. They're a bit like the BoS from FO1 in that respect.

How is finding a way into VC, or a way to become a VC citizen, or a way to access their vault a "fetch quest"? Nothing you're saying makes any sense to me.

VC was far from my favourite town, but it's cool. I think I prefer even Modoc and Broken Hills to VC overall.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Primordia's shades of brown, yellow, and orange are very different from the ones in FO; and the art style is incredibly particular in Primordia. It's a gorgeous game, and with the proper art direction, almost any set of colors can be made to look beautiful. And I'd like to note, Primordia is a point-n-click adventure game, so the "desert" is actually all in the background, while I'm actually exploring a very tight space. I don't hate deserts, but I do want them done right.
The combat is shit in terms of enjoying it, not tactics; but I digress. My main problem with FO 1 & 2, ignoring the combat and visuals and the beginning, was the fact that I didn't see the supposed quality dialogue and world building that the Fallout games had been heralded for. I was instantly hooked in PS:T, UnderRail, shit even IWD and BG did a good job of getting me hooked with their opening cinematics. FO has none of that, I really am not given a reason to give a single fuck. Does the dialogue get a marked improvement after after Klamath and The Den? Where does the game really pick up? Give me a point in the game, and I'll play like a half hour post that point.
 

Chippy

Arcane
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6,037
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I still get a warm and fuzzy feeling thinking about my next F2 playthrough - the humor alone made it worthwhile. After I play F1 of course; just the thought of decending into the glow with a high science skill and hacking into all of the computers to get the history of the place and what happened after the war gives me a raging hard-on.
What was the OP saying again?.
 

Master

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
1,160
Where does the game really pick up? Give me a point in the game, and I'll play like a half hour post that point.

Ok then play the first half hour after that "war, war never changes" intro.
:troll:
 

Risewild

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Mar 23, 2018
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Australia
Primordia's shades of brown, yellow, and orange are very different from the ones in FO; and the art style is incredibly particular in Primordia. It's a gorgeous game, and with the proper art direction, almost any set of colors can be made to look beautiful.
Primordia was made in 2012 using a 30+ bit color (more than 6 million colors) capacity. That's more than 6 million colors against the 8 bit 255 ones possible back then on Fallout 1 and 2. Of course it will look better.
You seem to misunderstand the limitations of hardware back then, the native resolution back then was also 640x480, that also affects how "crisp" colors can look. Not to mention that "flat" images (like those used for old adventure games) can show a better looking image than isometric (or in the case of classic Fallout games, trimetric) perspective. Which is another can of worms I don't really want to open.

For example, even Baldur's Gate (that has plenty of more colorful maps) colors are not crisp and can be blurry. Same for other games that share a similar "perspective" made around the same time.

Anyway, the point is that comparing a 2012 game looks and colors to a late 1990's one is (I'm sorry to say), ridiculous.
 

Black Angel

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ItsChon if you're bothered so much by how (I assume) the default looks of Fallout 1&2 as it was intended to on release day/at the time, then just fucking follow this guide by agris on how to make it looks much better and acceptable for a graphics-whore eyes as prescribed here
I agree with what epeli said, except instead of setting the game to 2x scaler, set it to 960x540. That will keep the font from looking fucked up because its a perfect 1:4 pixel mapping onto 1920x1080. You won't split the rendering of the low resolution font and graphics onto anisotropic subpixels, which is what makes low resolution games scaled to high look both blurry and sharp at the same time.

To be clear, in draw.ini set graphics mode to 4 or 5 (5 and playing with borderless gaming is superior for multi monitor users IMO, mouse is still trapped in window until you alt-tab), the resolution to your desktop's native 1920x1080, and GPUBlt=1. That's it for ddraw.

In f2_res.ini, set graphics_mode=0 which passes along game window resolution control to ddraw. Put scale_2x=0, and set the screen resolution to 960 and 540 (600 for :obviously: 16:10 owners). For fullscreen colors, set it to 8, and all the other graphics options are the same. Windowed does not need to be set to 1 in the subsequent options if you're using dx9 windowed mode, ddraw will handle that.


edit: for reference, this is how those settings make the game look:

OBASfmy.jpg


Qk8GdFO.jpg

edit2: This works exactly the same way for Fallout 2, FYI. For Fallout 1, you have to use a much older version of sfall, Crafty's 1.7.6 and I don't believe rendering in a window works - you have to run it fullscreen 960x540/600. That means adding the resolution to your display driver. This is easy on nvidia, harder on amd, either way: google it.

It's the best of both world because not only does it makes it run and looks good on modern system, it also won't make you miss all the details like if you just force it scale and stretch all the way to the native resolution of most modern rigs.

That is, if you actually care about actually playing the game and not just what to shitpost like you're doing right now, mfkndggrfll.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
My biggest gripe is whenever people with poor reading comprehension try to make a point that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was trying to say. I brought up Primordia as a way of indicating that it was possible to create a game of primarily browns, yellows, oranges and reds, that looks somewhat decent; I wasn't trying to compare Fallout and Primordia. I understand the technical limitations at the time Fallout was being made, does that make the game look any better? As for games that had 8 bit color palettes, take a look at this quality post by MRY. Unless I'm mistaken, I think all of these games were also limited to an 8 bit color palette.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-importance-of-color.122985/#post-5716138

I mean shit, the screens to Legend of Kyrandia look fucking gorgeous, better than most of the games released today. They had the same 256 colors available to them that Fallout did. Alternatively, take a look at this post,

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-importance-of-color.122985/page-2#post-5716211

These are games created with 16 fucking colors, and they still look beautiful. As for you bringing up Baldur's Gate, I know that the colors weren't always crisp; my point is that despite that fact, it still is a far better looking game than either Fallout 1 & 2. The images in these posts make me want to actively figure out what game that is and play it, in the hope that there is an equally awesome game to supplement the art. The art in Fallout on the other hand actively hinders my play experience.

Read and understand before trying to claim what I'm saying is ridiculous.
The only one shit posting is you. My issue isn't with the resolution of the game, or how crisp the graphics look. If you read my points instead of jumping to conclusions like a fanboy, you would have seen this post of mine.
But to be fair, there are some valid reasons for why fallout graphic sucks. You're playing it on a modern monitor with large native resolutions and it screwed up the Fallout's delicate visual that's made up purely of rendered sprites. Using your monitor's native resolutions and everything is too small, playing it on 640x480 make everything so pixelated. I think people already posted workarounds for this problem somewhere but I forgot where it is.
Fallout 1& 2 both have restoration packs that actually clears it up. They make the games really crisp. My problem is pretty much only with the colors.
http://www.killap.net/
http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Restoration_Mod
The Restoration Mods do exactly what you've described. I'm not a fucking "graphics whore", I just don't want to look at a piece of shit while I play the game.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
As someone who grew up with and loves Fallout 2, I've always thought Arroyo -> Den was the least interesting part of the game. The Klamath rat dungeon in particular is mind-numbing. My favourite sections are all post-Den, which of course is like 80-90% of the game. The Den and Klamath don't play into any of the overarching politics or cool interfactional politics at all, except maybe the Slavers' Guild to some extent.

The best parts for me are the rivalries between the various big cities and the way the smaller towns get swept up in it all. Unraveling the various plots to nab Redding through jet addiction or nab Vault City via Cold War-style merc pressure are the meat of the game. Everybody remembers the tension between Gecko and Vault City or spying on the Salvatores meeting in secret with the Enclave. That's really what the game's about IMO -- that and the ability to have a real choice in what happens in these struggles.

ItsChon, I know you're 18 and predisposed to hate the game for some reason, but I'd boot it back up and push through to New Reno. In lore terms, it's retarded, but it's also one of the most interesting parts of the game and jam-packed with seedy plots and politics.
Doesn't help that you also have the temple of trials before that.
The beginning of FO2 is a complete slog.

I recently barely made it out of the Temple of Trials with the Megamod because it is just so tedious and I have did it a million times. Then you have Arroyo-Den-Klamath which are just...dead. Not because of brown and yellow either which is admittedly stupid - It's a fucking desert.

Most replays stop at around that spot so people have played a thousand times all of those little shitty quests. Fallout 2 was great at the time, but in the grimdark world of 2018, the flaws are more apparent. Tons of locations that are not worth shit. Pop culture overload. San Francisco is goofy Big Trouble in Little China HELL. I don't understand how people fixate on New Reno when you have San Fran. At least New Reno was designed well.

To think we have hardly had any amazing Fallout games. We have hardly had any games like it at all. Maybe we should make another fantasy game with magick and a dark evil that is from the past here to take over the world.
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Then you have Arroyo-Den-Klamath which are just...dead. Not because of brown and yellow either which is admittedly stupid - It's a fucking desert.
This notion that because we're in a desert the game has an excuse to look like shit is stupid. Another post by MRY says it better than I ever could,

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-importance-of-color.122985/page-2#post-5716171

But other than that, everything you've said is correct. I've made up my mind to retry the game and push past all the way to New Reno; as azimuth and others suggested, but people pretending the beginning of the game isn't enough to sufficiently turn anyone off from the rest of the game are delusional.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
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Wonderland
The only one shit posting is you. My issue isn't with the resolution of the game, or how crisp the graphics look. If you read my points instead of jumping to conclusions like a fanboy, you would have seen this post of mine.
But to be fair, there are some valid reasons for why fallout graphic sucks. You're playing it on a modern monitor with large native resolutions and it screwed up the Fallout's delicate visual that's made up purely of rendered sprites. Using your monitor's native resolutions and everything is too small, playing it on 640x480 make everything so pixelated. I think people already posted workarounds for this problem somewhere but I forgot where it is.
Fallout 1& 2 both have restoration packs that actually clears it up. They make the games really crisp. My problem is pretty much only with the colors.
http://www.killap.net/
http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Restoration_Mod
The Restoration Mods do exactly what you've described. I'm not a fucking "graphics whore", I just don't want to look at a piece of shit while I play the game.
This notion that because we're in a desert the game has an excuse to look like shit is stupid.
:shitposting::shitandpiss:

Don't worry mate, the tags are coming for you anytime now
 

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