A lingering problem

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Since we're on the topic of religion now, I'll say this:

Islam is not a religion. It's is first and foremost a political system.

I recommend everyone to watch Facts the West Needs to Know About Islam. It's actually a scary thing what the Muslims should do according to the Qoran (luckily a number of them don't, but the Qoran instructs to lie to the infidels until the time is right to strike them down)... Just wait till you hear about "hudna."

 

[Dementia Praecox]

And most recently, a pedophile started defending the idea of intercourse with 14 year olds.

At least pick the pedophiles that post child porn for your rant. Utter fail at :decline of the codex:

 

[Dementia Praecocks]

HAI whats going on in this thread

 

[inwoker]

I recommend everyone to watch Facts the West Needs to Know About Islam. It's actually a scary thing what the Muslims should do according to the Qoran (luckily a number of them don't, but the Qoran instructs to lie to the infidels until the time is right to strike them down)... Just wait till you hear about "hudna."

They already here. They caused decline of the codex.

 

[Truth]

I wish I had the willpower to start my own religion.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I recommend everyone to watch Facts the West Needs to Know About Islam. It's actually a scary thing what the Muslims should do according to the Qoran (luckily a number of them don't, but the Qoran instructs to lie to the infidels until the time is right to strike them down)... Just wait till you hear about "hudna."

They already here. They caused decline of the codex.

DECLINE OF THE CODEX!

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Expecting them to also conform to the Anglo-American culture is an unequal imposition.

Then why did they go to America? Culture is the single most important thing a country (or society) has. Clearly their own culture resulted in them not having well-paying jobs, it resulted in them deciding to leave their home country for a better place. That "better place" only remains better if you accept and adopt its culture. If you bring your culture with you, then you start turning that "better place" into "back home" and remember... You left there for a reason.

So do you think Mexico is poor because they speak Spanish or because they eat Tacos or what? In reality Mexico was a developing country up until the 70s but they've deindustralized, they were hit by an economic crisis and free trade and their agriculture collapsed. The majority of Mexican migrants are ex-farmers or from rural areas.

And yet the United States seems more than capable of sustaining farmers and surviving various economic collapses over the decades. Why else do you think Mexicans, who earn dirt for farming in Mexico, cross the border to work on farms in America? Now whether that's because of government subsidies or whatever is up to you. The point is, America has developed a "superior" system (when viewed at in terms of "people wanting to go there". When people leave their home country it's usually for "a better life", meaning they believe - for whatever reason - that America can provide one).

Obviously there were jobs for them in Mexico at one time but not any more, the question is why that is. It's not because of "culture".

There's more to culture than just language and food. Think things like legal systems, corruption, belief systems and so on. EG: Socialism has a culture of its own. What's valued and done in a Capitalist culture is often viewed very diffierently under Socialism. That leads to different behaviour and different values for different things. That value that people put on things can alter behaviour significantly. As another example, the only reason Zimbabwe can't feed itself is because of the political situation. That's part of culture.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

:WAR:

 

[kingcomrade]

Islam is not a religion. It's is first and foremost a political system.

Great, not only are you going to regurgitate something you read but you're going to get it wrong.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Islam is not a religion. It's is first and foremost a political system.

Great, not only are you going to regurgitate something you read but you're going to get it wrong.

I need to practise my grammar Nazism more though...

But the statement is true. We're talking about a religion that aims to create a state that expands and conquers, while governing every aspect of the people's life without heavy administration over individuals. There isn't a better way to run a state than integrating religion to it, executive power-wise of course.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Expecting them to also conform to the Anglo-American culture is an unequal imposition.

Then why did they go to America? Culture is the single most important thing a country (or society) has. Clearly their own culture resulted in them not having well-paying jobs, it resulted in them deciding to leave their home country for a better place. That "better place" only remains better if you accept and adopt its culture. If you bring your culture with you, then you start turning that "better place" into "back home" and remember... You left there for a reason.

So do you think Mexico is poor because they speak Spanish or because they eat Tacos or what? In reality Mexico was a developing country up until the 70s but they've deindustralized, they were hit by an economic crisis and free trade and their agriculture collapsed. The majority of Mexican migrants are ex-farmers or from rural areas.

And yet the United States seems more than capable of sustaining farmers and surviving various economic collapses over the decades. Why else do you think Mexicans, who earn dirt for farming in Mexico, cross the border to work on farms in America? Now whether that's because of government subsidies or whatever is up to you. The point is, America has developed a "superior" system (when viewed at in terms of "people wanting to go there". When people leave their home country it's usually for "a better life", meaning they believe - for whatever reason - that America can provide one).

Obviously there were jobs for them in Mexico at one time but not any more, the question is why that is. It's not because of "culture".

There's more to culture than just language and food. Think things like legal systems, corruption, belief systems and so on. EG: Socialism has a culture of its own. What's valued and done in a Capitalist culture is often viewed very diffierently under Socialism. That leads to different behaviour and different values for different things. That value that people put on things can alter behaviour significantly. As another example, the only reason Zimbabwe can't feed itself is because of the political situation. That's part of culture.

Hmm..truish but much of the reason why US agriculture is sustainable is that despite telling everyone ELSE to adopt free trade, you guys place massive tariffs and subsidies on your own agricultural sector (well you do on our aussie exports anyway). That's somewhat changing for the first time for the US, as now you have several major trading partners making similar demand on you, and for the first time they are powerful enough industrially for their demands to have some sway (i.e. China, united EU, Japan and to a lesser extent India). It would not be at all surprising if US farming follows the patterns we've seen in Australia, where to adapt to free trade the country has abandoned agriculture on never-seen-before (over here anyway) levels - we now have over 94% of our population in a handful of coastal cities and that's rising massively. Now australia HAVE done well from that - our economy is booming at the moment - but it was a major life-shift for the rural areas. Don't be surprised if the same happens in America - once you guys adopt free trade (and you WILL have to eventually), you won't be able to compete against Chinese and Indian agriculture, so you'll be forced to switch to either industrial production, services or financial products (like what makes up most of UK's money these days) to make up for it...

 

[DarkUnderlord]

(well you do on our aussie exports anyway)

I was about to say Australia survives quite well without the subsidies but you went on and did it anyway. Europe also has some pretty hefty / stupid subsidies on farming too. Also, I am Australian, so there.

That's somewhat changing for the first time for the US

Not if Obama wins.

 

[dagorkan]

I heard your Labor party just suicided your agriculture (wheat board). Pretty stupid if you ask me judging by current events. A large part of the USA has just lost it's summer harvest too and population hasn't stopped growing, you can exempt a few sectors from free trade.

 

[dagorkan]

I also don't think it even matters if you go to Heaven or Hell or if neither exists, trying to do what God wants should be enough for anyone.

Why is what God wants so important that it should, alone, be enough for anyone? Further: What does God want?

Well, because God = the Creator, so all morality comes from Him. If you do good you do God's will so if you're trying to do good you're already trying to obey God (you could be a Christian without knowing it, lol). What does God want? He wants us to "love thy neighbor" and treat other people humanely. I think that's what it boils down to, conscience. Everything else including passages from the Bible should be judged by what your conscience or understanding tells you.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

Well, because God = the Creator, so all morality comes from Him.

Source plz.

 

[barker_s]

you could be a Christian without knowing it, lol

Yeah, I love that "if you're good you're Christian lol" attitude. As far as I know one is considered Christian if he's been baptised. Following your logic you could be Hinduist without knowing it.

By the way, what does your God tell about pre-columbian cultures? Those poor guys have been living for hundreds of years without knowing JHWH, sacrificing people for false gods... but their conscience told the it was good thing to do, because otherwise the sun wouldn't rise the next day. So are they damned for eternity or does your God accept murder?

Aaand you still didn't answer my question - why do you think atheists are so bad?

Source plz.

http://www.godtube.com/

 

[dagorkan]

you could be a Christian without knowing it, lol

Yeah, I love that "if you're good you're Christian lol" attitude. As far as I know one is considered Christian if he's been baptised. Following your logic you could be Hinduist without knowing it.

You're right, you could. But Hinduism has very particular beliefs (caste system, rat gods) which I couldn't contemplate believing in. The 'Christian ethos' is a lot more universal and coherent. Thanks for bringing up Hinduism, it helps my case because Hinduism isn't a church or a doctrine it's a culture and a way of life. My 'Christian ethos' would be the same, you can have it even if you've never been to church or if you doubt specific doctrines but contrary to Hinduism (where it's enforced through the social structure) it's inherent in every person.

By the way, what does your God tell about pre-columbian cultures? Those poor guys have been living for hundreds of years without knowing JHWH, sacrificing people for false gods... but their conscience told the it was good thing to do, because otherwise the sun wouldn't rise the next day. So are they damned for eternity or does your God accept murder?

I don't think they're damned but if they were (and Hell existed) it wouldn't matter. God's not a baby sitter, for some reason he picked the Jews to start with and they moved in to other areas. I think if anything those who've been 'enlightened' would have more duties and responsibilities than the rest, Christianity coming to Europe before the Americas isn't necessarily a good thing from a selfish individualistic point of view... despite a lot of fucked up Protestants think that because they think conversion is about reserving their 'place in Heaven'.

Aaand you still didn't answer my question - why do you think atheists are so bad?

I generalized but I think they're annoying and often amoral, I feel that more often atheism is a negative reaction against religion than a positive choice, but I'm not a sectarian. You can be a good person despite never having heard of Christianity, it's just you've handicapped yourself.

 

[kingcomrade]

But the statement is true.

No, it is not. Islam is a religion.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

You're right, you could. But Hinduism has very particular beliefs (caste system, rat gods) which I couldn't contemplate believing in.

But christianity has very particular beliefs that you can contemplate believing in? How is a rat god any different from a god that is three but sill three but one because there can only be one God? Does not compute.

I generalized but I think they're annoying and often amoral, I feel that more often atheism is a negative reaction against religion than a positive choice, but I'm not a sectarian. You can be a good person despite never having heard of Christianity, it's just you've handicapped yourself

Well gee whiz, I think religious people are annoying and often amoral (THOU SHALT NOT KILL/KILL THE INFIDELS FTW), so what's your point? Why am I handicapped because I don't accept that there MUST be an invisible grandpa in the skies just because someone says it MUST be so?

 

[barker_s]

The winning answer is - he's been born and indoctrinated into this particular religion. If he was born in India he'd consider rat gods pretty believable and would laugh at the concept of depicting the Holy Spirit as a dove.

Edit:

Atheists can have sex before marriage. Who's handicapped now :twisted: ?

 

[dagorkan]

You should probably ask these questions to Human Shield because I don't consider the 'Holy Spirit' as a dove, as for the Trinity I don't believe in that either. I don't believe in any church or blindly believe everything priests say but I listen to them because they're usually well informed

Atheists can have sex before marriage. Who's handicapped now Twisted Evil ?

So can Christians, and they do.

 

[dagorkan]

...

 

[Dementia Praecocks]

I'm about to XPLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODE :evil:

 

[barker_s]

Man, if you don't believe in the very fundamentals of Christianity (Trinity), then why bother calling yourself a Christian ?

 

[LastAngryBat]

I refuse to acknowledge any creature of inferior intellect as "God".

Refer to the bible for proof of your god's incompetance