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Incline Age of Decadence - Tips, Tricks and Spoilers

Discussion in 'Iron Tower Studio' started by Kem0sabe, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. Lhynn Arcane

    Lhynn
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  2. HeatEXTEND Arbiter

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    Dwarf cocks......are tasty?
     
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  3. ilitarist Learned Illiterate Village Idiot

    ilitarist
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    Yes, because even "realistic for high fantasy" Witcher 3 is better in that regard. Feels more realistic.

    Perhaps "angry" was wrong word. Menacing?..
    Swearing looks natural and in right place in, say, Tarantino movies. Using it in art without proper finesse is an obvious problem. Again, that Witcher (third one, previous ones had huge problems with writing not unlike Age of Decadence - many character couldn't decide if they're speaking modern English or they're in a fantasy novel. To be fair, books have exactly the same problem) does similar stuff: swearing is used for emphasis or to express character traits. Some universes have special swear words exactly because it's hard to properly use familiar shits and fucks in an effective matter. When it works you get strong characters and powerful speech - like Tarantino movies or, I suspect, that Deadwood thing. If it doesn't work it looks juvenile. It's like... rhyme. You are usually not required to rhyme. If your joke or message has a good rhyme in it then it may become more powerful, if not than it loses points.

    Also from what I know of primitive armies (...does Soviet counts?..) they're similar to prison word in regards to swearing; i.e. they overreact to personal attacks.

    Perhaps. I am by nature focused on negative, on criticism and I suspect the worst.

    Are, so you're one of the developers. You did a good job with scripting then, that thing looks monumental. Still, even while the ambition is admirable it doesn't justify problems I get in the end. Then again, it seems to be one of the most celebrated RPGs of later years so it's clearly clicked for most people.

    You know, I am now playing Jeff Vogel's Avernum Escape from the Pit. It doesn't have nearly as much writing. Has much more characters though, and they all are relatively primitive. Almost every quest is straightforward task without much of a choice. As I suspect there will be no big decisions in the game, just optional quest. Most of it's much simpler than AoD, it's all straightforward. And I enjoy it. One of the reasons I enjoy it is that this relatively simple design means there are next to nothing problems with it. It doesn't require me to suspend my disbelief or ignore limitations. And I believe you can't make the game with a design like Age of Decadence in such a way that you don't see strings and patches and inconsistencies. I can't ignore them.
     
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  4. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    Hardly. In non-violent situations fuck and fucking are nothing but emphasis words that imply neither angry nor menacing. Maybe you grew up in an environment where swearing was a taboo and you were taught that only the criminals from the Tarantino movies swear but this is a very subjective experience. It's much easier for me to name business people I've met who didn't swear and women are usually way worse than men when it comes to it. Not some criminals or junkies but well educated, successful people.

    https://www.joeabercrombie.com/2007/09/23/zounds-swearing-in-fantasy-2/

    "There was an interesting discussion of this very issue (which again started with a reading of The Blade Itself , blast my potty-mouth again) over at SFFWorld a while back. Some of the objections raised to swearing there (and I underline that these are not necessarily John’s objections) were: that these are ‘modern’ swear-words out of context in a ‘ye olde’ fantasy setting, that you’re better off making up a culture-specific oath like ‘by the holy orb of Zalxoz I will destroy thee!’, that you can just make up your own non-offensive word to substitute for the evil English creations (like BSGs frel, for example).

    The notion that ‘folks all spoke nice in them old days’ is entirely a Victorian invention. The three words that I believe we are chiefly talking about here (F**K, S**T, and C**T, forgive my euphemisms) are all words with long and proud traditions in the english language, going back hundreds of years.

    Of course, fantasy is not history. Fantasies can include all kinds of different elements corresponding to different time periods. Furthermore, even if we are describing a pseudo-medieval setting, no-one could pretend that we are writing for a medieval audience. As I see it, an author has to select the mode of expression which he feels best communicates his meaning, or the meaning of his characters, to a reader of modern English. It’s a question of judgement, and, as with the explicitness of sex or violence in a book, every author will find his own way, and different readers will have their own unique response.

    For me, as a reader, I find complicated oaths (by the holy beard of Swarfega etc.) to be unconvincing (and often truly risible) unless very well integrated into some specific element of a fantasy culture, and even then they are rarely a good substitute for a simple S**T in times of high excitement. When I stub my toe I very rarely reach for a culture-specific mouthful such as, “by the golden boots of David Beckham!” or some such.

    To make up a word simply to act as a substitute for a perfectly good English word seems to me almost cowardly, and as a reader I would find it extremely irritating. After all, if frel or whatever is supposed to mean F**K, why not just call a spade a spade? And if it doesn’t mean F**K, then what the f**k is it supposed to mean? I can see the point if it means a TV show can air before the watershed, but I can’t for the life of me see the point in an adult work of fiction.

    For me, the inclusion of swearing isn’t about trying to inject grittiness, or to make my books adult, or even to try and make them sell (though that would be nice). It’s a question of honesty. You see, when I started writing, my Mum said to me, “Joe, you’ve got to be honest. You’ve got to think about every description, every line of speech, every image that you use and ask yourself – is this true? Is this how that thing really looks? Is this how a person would really speak? Keep everything absolutely true, and you can never go far wrong.” Best piece of advice I’ve ever had. Apart from don’t eat yellow snow, of course.

    Now some folks might say, “hey, it’s fantasy, it doesn’t have to be real,” but I’d say the exact opposite. It’s happening in a made up place, so it has to be more real than ever. Its being fantasy doesn’t forgive its being unconvincing, its being dishonest, its being false. Between you (which of course is potentially the entire world, but f*ck it) and me, I think fantasy is a genre where authors get away with weak-ass, lazy dialogue way too often.

    It goes without saying that, ultimately, every reader’s interpretation of what is false or unconvincing is going to be different, and some are going to find the use of swear-words jarring, but it isn’t the reader’s opinion that’s important here, it’s the writer’s. Precisely because every reader will see things differently, you simply can’t take their potential opinons into account when you write. You have to write for yourself first. You have to write the kind of book that you love, that you find true, and just hope you’ll be carrying some people along with you. The alternative is just to turn out bland, commercial pulp that you think is going to please the widest market, and that type of sh*t rarely works, even commercially.

    As a reader, there’s nothing more irritating to me than faux-shakespearian dialogue, “verily, my liege, we should teach these goblins a harsh lesson.” I swear a lot in my everyday work and home life, it’s part of my everyday mode of expression and that of most people I relate to, so it would seem odd to me if my characters didn’t. It would certainly seem very, very odd if characters who are, to put it nicely, scum, didn’t swear in life-threatening situations. There are some words I don’t use, because they don’t feel right in the setting. I don’t use b*ll*cks. Too English rugby club. I don’t use d*ck (if you’ll allow the expression), but I’ve nothing against c*ck and pr*ck, depending on who’s talking. After all, what are you supposed to call it? Or should you just avoid talking about it at all?"​

    Couldn't agree with him more. Swearing has become "everyday more of expression" for many people and judging by the Roman poetry and Senate speeches (including Cicero), it was the same way back then too.

    I'm playing Avernum 3 now. Good descriptions, really bad dialogues (who talks like this?), great open-world design, crappy skills (I like his original system more), superb acquisition of spells levels and magic items. The dialogues do bother me as much as AoD's dialogues bother you.
     
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  5. ilitarist Learned Illiterate Village Idiot

    ilitarist
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    Dialogues in Avernum don't bother me because the game is clearly not about dialogues. All the characters are obvious marionettes and thus they can say their simple stuff as if they were in a fairytale. No ambitions, no chance to crush. AoD allows for playstyle based solely on dialogue and the world is complex, non-stereotypical. So expectations are higher. And again about swearing - I'd understand that if the game fully went into writing direction a la Rome TV show where everyone speaks with a consistent proportion of very little ye olden talk and a lot of natural speech. But the game constantly switches between "natural" talk (which doesn't feel so natural because main character still very rarely participates - it's for that reason many RPGs allow for consequence-free reactions in a middle of an NPC dialogue) and historical fiction like Name of the Rose or something. You can't say “verily, my liege, we should teach these goblins a harsh lesson. They had fucked our kingdom's people for the last time!”
     
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  6. SausageInYourFace Arcane Patron

    SausageInYourFace
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    Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Funny you are citing Abercrombie, because I was reading Before They Are Hanged at the time I was playing AoD and much in the game reminded me of Abercrombies style or at least his general feel (dog-eat-dog-world and that kind of stuff).
     
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  7. HeatEXTEND Arbiter

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    :abyssgazer:
     
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  8. Gaius maximus Scholar

    Gaius maximus
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    im playing as a praetor and noticed that i cant threaten/intimitate cassius to leave town i only get options to cs him or intiate combat.i remember there was an option with enough steetwise to get him leave town.i have 4 streetwise but cant choose anything but combat.
    bug or said options were removed?
     
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  9. Sergio Learned

    Sergio
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    That option is not there when you're a praetor because trying to behave as such wouldn't be advised (that was the answer I read somewhere on the steam forum time ago)

    But I think too that the option should be there.
     
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  10. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    The option isn't there because if you fail to intimidate him and he runs to Antidas, your career as a praetor is over.
     
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  11. PlanHex Arcane Patron

    PlanHex
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    Why doesn't this just result in a game-over, like infiltrating the castle with some murders but not being able to convince Antidas to not murder you when you get to him?
     
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  12. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    When you infiltrate the palace, you're (or should be) aware of the risks and thus accept them. When you threaten Cassius, you expect him gone because that's how it works in most RPG as you're stlil new to the game. Today I would have handled it differently but back then I thought that it would be best to remove the option.
     
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  13. Gaius maximus Scholar

    Gaius maximus
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    no double training for the praetor,honorouble all the way!

    k,so for a loyalist praetor to have house daratan retain at least the current status quo i should

    - destroy house aurelian
    - house crassus survives but i blow up al akia
    - dont destroy any of the houses.
    ?
     
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  14. AbounI Cipher Patron

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    Maybe Sunfire can fix that and makes it happen in a mod ?
     
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  15. PlanHex Arcane Patron

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    The best option for Antidas/Daratan might actually be to team up with the Aurelians to fuck over Meru, whether you save Gaelius or not.
    Not doing that and completing the Daratan questline in Maadoran and destroying the Aurelians is just so much fun though. :P
     
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  16. Gaius maximus Scholar

    Gaius maximus
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    it also nets you 30 more skill points if you advice serenas to attack the slums (you also get to be promoted to consul) but you cant return to maadoran anymore.

    you also get to feel how is to command men in battle when abbibas gives you 5 whole men to blow al akia!not even a fucking century!!
     
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  17. Gaius maximus Scholar

    Gaius maximus
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    anyone using the community edition mod?im reluctant to try it thinking that the added sp you get from some mod quests break balance?

    also is there a mod that allows daratan praetors to get free training from dellar and antidas even if they dont have cha 7?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  18. Trash Player Educated

    Trash Player
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    Isn't a huge deal, the tweaks are well worth it. Balance never really exist in this game anyway.
    Yep, I think that praetor bonus is included in Sunfire's CE.
     
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  19. Gaius maximus Scholar

    Gaius maximus
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    i installed the bug fixes and the community edition though some new additions dont show up-the awsome veteran vignette,and the new swords dont have their own models when you equip them (for example the kopis looks like a gladius equiped).
     
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  20. Fenix Liturgist Vatnik

    Fenix
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    I should disagree. While I agree that swaring can be used for adding flavour, or for pure author's style require that, ut doean't work as universal reason - matter/qestion of honesty.
    In that case you should make film, where where you show how people shitting in WC rooms when they leave the room.
    It's obviously a bullshit, and literature and art in general isn't about authour being honest at all.
     
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  21. Gaius maximus Scholar

    Gaius maximus
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    does your loyalty score affect your standing with the faction you are currently in?
     
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  22. Castozor Learned

    Castozor
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    If I remember correctly from a VD post I once saw, it can impact the Ending you get and I think going into the negative also triggers certain reactions but I'm not too sure. Could be that those events were triggered by certain quests rather than standing.
     
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  23. Gaius maximus Scholar

    Gaius maximus
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    damn,i wanna join AG betray them join IG and make adidas emperor and ending the game not patrolling the wasteland.
    i saw that i get -10 loyalty by betraying AG for IG,but you get CS alchemy and throwing training from the AG guild.i also get -44 reputation with AG and im goona get ambushed some time but i dont mind that.

    also is a throwing/sword/block build feasible?like opening the battle with a pila or 2 and then go melee?
     
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  24. Trash Player Educated

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    You will soon find the sword redundant; battles are won long before melee.
     
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  25. Gaius maximus Scholar

    Gaius maximus
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    whats the skill check to get steel armor from shorty?i remember getting it from him when i did a MG-IG run but now i cant replicate it.it was i think before the last IG mission,the one going to the palace.

    also can the imperial armor get to 10 AP with crafting?
     
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