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An assessment of Oblivion after having first played Skyrim, then Morrowind

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,783
In one sentence: Better gameplay than Morrowind, and somewhat worse than Skyrim, though a few of the dungeons are unmatched.

Breaking it down: I had forgotten just how extraordinarily slow Morrowind's creeping/walking/running speed was even with high investment in speed until I checked it again after playing Oblivion. Even the walking in Oblivion is faster than a Morrowind run. A ~balance~ downside for this convenience is that they didn't slow down running while backwards, which makes playing an archer a bit easier than it should be (Skyrim fixed this).

The lockpicking and persuasion minigames are excruciatingly bad. I was glad I could just pay to persuade and acquire an unbreakable lockpick to skip it at level 10. Skyrim was right to replace lockpicking with Fallout 3's and replacing persuading with checks.

Given the reputation of the infamous quest compass, I was surprised to discover that there are a handful of quests where it's not there and you have to discover where to go on your own. That was swell.

I used the least-intrusive mod I could find to fix the messed-up level scaling, though I still took issue with a few of its changes. It spawned a couple of higher-level bears in a narrow cave that was otherwise easy to complete, so I had to deal with the tedium of kiting those damage sponges for quite a while. On that note, Oblivion's overall health values are too high for my liking given how many arrows it takes to kill creatures, even with stealth damage (though it was finally adjusted a bit more for my liking with the Shivering Isles content. Skyrim only had the damage sponge problem at the beginning). It didn't help matters any that stores didn't stock any bows or arrows greater than elven (I assume this is because of the mod, but I could be wrong; it also became a nonissue in Shivering Isles thanks to madness ore/amber). Lorewise, I can understand not having higher tier equipment available for purchase, but it doesn't make any sense statistically (ebony is only slightly better than elven, glass is only slightly better than ebony, daedric is only slightly better than glass).

A lot of caves were linear and samey, like Morrowind's and Skyrim's, though a few dungeons stood out with their dead ends and multiple paths. I enjoyed getting to the Oblivion towers, though the seen-one-seen-em-all towers not so much. Knights of the Nine had a few that were all right, but I would have felt ripped off if I had bought it full price on release. Shivering Isle's twisting tunnels were some of the best.

As far as I could tell, there's no role playing whatsoever in Oblivion's base content. I wouldn't call it an RPG using the Josh Sawyer definition; it's an action adventure. A notable sidequest where the lack of role playing really sticks out is one where a group of female bandits are seducing and robbing married men. If you're playing a woman yourself, they invite you to join the gang (instead of robbing you, if you were playing a man), but once you come to their hideout you can only kill them all for the city guard, even if that's not something your character would do. To its credit, Shivering Isles adds both role playing and more-interesting quests, though the choices are of course binary and largely cosmetic. Improvement is improvement nonetheless (which Skyrim continued).

So yeah, it wasn't the abomination so many of you said it was (NWN2, released that same year, is much, much worse), but it's certainly not great, and definitely not a good role playing game. Anyone who prefers Morrowind must be some loon who likes some walking sim investigation in their hiking sim. I can take or leave it.
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,576
Location
Nottingham
Morrowind definitely needed a few tweaks regards gameplay/combat mechanics, but Oblivion is a step backwards in almost every other respect.

Morrowind's depth, world, enemies, setting & genuine sense of exploration based on directions & information instead of markers & hand-holding, wank all over Oblivion & Skyrim's feeble attempts from a great height.

I may have been going somewhere slowly in Morrowind, but at least I was going somewhere worthwhile as opposed to another cut-paste dungeon.
 
Last edited:

Zenith

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
296
Anyone who prefers Morrowind must be some loon who likes some walking sim investigation in their hiking sim. I can take or leave it.
I know it's a cheap jab, but whatever I'll bite. Sure, you can't outrun doomguy, but you learn/enchant jump spells, speed boost, levitation, mark/recall, intervention x2, memorize convenient ways between towns, map out strider/boat/guild/propylon travel map of the island.

Morrowind is an exploration game that has exploration mechanics to back it up. Shocking.
 

Urthor

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2015
Messages
1,872
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I can't wait for them to announce levitation and open cities for Elder Scrolls 6 and for fans to hype it up and pretend they weren't removed because of low console RAM and E3 graphics trailers.


Honestly Morrowind's defining factor was the writing, which has gotten progressively more garbage. They actually gave a damn back then, now it's a 50/50 whether the next Gamebryo RPG has 4 button dialogue even after the community shat on it for Fallout 4.

Redeeming factor for Oblivion will always be the mods though, the mods for that game are absurd, way better than Skyrim's mods.
 

Chunkyman

Augur
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
159
I thought Skyrim was a downgrade from Oblivion in nearly every way. Particularly as I always play a mage, the complete lack of spell creation + the dramatically reduced number of spells really ruined Skyrim for me more than anything else. Now of course Oblivion was a big step down from Morrowind, but I at least felt with Oblivion that I could still have genuine fun with the system it had. Plus Oblivion did include some nice immurshun features like the cheesy, dynamic dialogue and NPC schedules which made the world feel alive, whereas Morrowind felt really static even though the world itself was amazing.

Good analysis overall though, I think people tend to be overly harsh on Oblivion because of how disappointed they were from seeing what happened to the series after the true gems of Daggerfall and Morrowind.
 

Gepeu

Savant
Patron
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
986
persuasion minigames are excruciatingly bad.
What was so bad about persuasion minigame? I don't remember hating it. Also you didn't say anything about guilds, which were best part of the game IIRC
You had to use all extremely different approaches in one go to get the best effect. You lied, told a joke, complimented and at the end threatened some NPC and they loved you for it.
 

ilitarist

Learned
Illiterate Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 17, 2016
Messages
857
I know it's a cheap jab, but whatever I'll bite. Sure, you can't outrun doomguy, but you learn/enchant jump spells, speed boost, levitation, mark/recall, intervention x2, memorize convenient ways between towns, map out strider/boat/guild/propylon travel map of the island.

Morrowind is an exploration game that has exploration mechanics to back it up. Shocking.

Sometimes tech limitation is like a rhyme for a poet. Not just a limitation but a focusing empowering tool. Like turn-based combat allowing players to make complex plans. Or lack of memory forcing dev to generate levels on a whim creating a huge galaxies a la Elite.

But Morrowind is not the case. The slow movement is there so that you hadn't noticed the world is the size of a stadium. It does give you a relief when you can enchant yourself to move at a good speed but that's like saying that Oblivion allows you to kill NPCs so that you don't hear them talking about mudcrabs again.

Morrowind has a relatively good world design (it's an alien world just like every fantasy world should be) and a nice cryptic lore. That's it. Both of this thing are sort of in Skyrim later, but the world is not as alien (even though you still have weird Norse mummies, tribal dudes, mammoths and other stuff you don't usually see) and the lore was not bad but more direct - Skyrim civil war was fine but lacked mystique of Tribunal.

I remember Oblivion fondly for its lush forests - those felt great, especially with Gothic 3 being a disappointment around that time and Gothic had traditionally done wilderness better than anyone else. But gameplay-wise it was boring and repeatable. It lacked unpredictability of Morrowind dice rolls but forgot to add any gameplay - just kite enemies and mash your sword, cast the same spell you used on lvl 1 but now it's called Spark 12 due to wonders of revolutionary spellmaking system, yay.
 

scytheavatar

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
425
Oblivion is the worst Elder Scroll game, I am not sure why anyone would consider it to be better than Skyrim in anything. People play Elder Scrolls for the open world and quests, and Oblivion has the worst of that of all the post Daggerfall TES games. The world is essentially dungeons, and a few towns, and then empty spaces in between. Ubisoft open world games have more effort put into designing them than Oblivion did. Then there's of course the worst level scaling system even which makes leveling up your character moot.
 

Wayward Son

Fails to keep valuable team members alive
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Location
Anytown, USA
My brother who won't even touch anything older than Morrowind absolutely loves it. And you know why? Because the slow walk speed adds to the immersion. It adds to the feeling of exploration. He didn't even chang e any of the gameplay mechanics. And he's decline. How does this make you feel?
 

pippin

Guest
Lockpicks being breakable are not a problem, but the minigame was obnoxious as fuck. FO3 styled lockpicking was better imo... But lockpicking minigames have been shit since Hillsfar (oddly enough, Oblivion's lockpicking game is vaguely similar to Hillsfar's).
 

Wayward Son

Fails to keep valuable team members alive
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Location
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Morrowinds lockpicking mini game was the best, followed by Arena's in the entire series.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Morrowind is an exploration game that has exploration mechanics to back it up. Shocking.

And yet that doesn't explain the slow speed. Or do you think that adds to the "immershun" of exploration?

Now, I haven't played Morronwind, but it sounds like the speed is slower than NV and that was already unbearable and would have killed any will to explore anything if it wasn't for a console command to bring it a speed suitable for humans, but probably not for the monkeys that Bethesda targets with their games.
 

pippin

Guest
The character in NV starts jogging, iirc, and the "alternative" movement speed is walking, which contributes to stealth.
In Morrowind, your character walks, but his walking speed is tied to... uh, Speed, which in non-warrior classes tend to be p low. Make a Nord Warrior and make it so he has Speed bonuses. I made one which ended up with 70 speed from the start. Just do that and look at him go.
 

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