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AoD - brand new screens

keeks

Novice
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
76
Location
Estonia
Ivy Mike said:
Also, I agree with Kamaz concerning the grass tiles. As they are now they seem to repetitive and in too much contrast with the rest of the graphics. If your artist could add some variety to them, it would be a whole lot better. A good example of some mighty fine graphics would be the walls of the building, very nicely done!
I concur!

Otherwise this game looks ridiculously good. You'll definitely have my money on release day, VD.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Lancaster said:
Any chance of seeing a combat screen soon? If not, post more dialog screens!
Sure, we'll post new stuff soon, but I want to tweak a few things first.

undead dolphin hacker said:
VD -- Thanks for listening to our suggestions about the interface graphical overhaul.
That's the idea. After all nobody can bitch...err, I meant "suggest" like our fine members. :lol:

Now get some shadows in there!
*casts Summon Shadows*
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
There are main locations and sattelites. For example, the starting town has 2 smaller locations nearby: a raiders camp and an outpost controlled by a rival House. Overall, we have 12 main locations and 18 satellites. Currently.
 

Ivy Mike

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
495
Location
Ground Zero
VD said:
There are main locations and sattelites. For example, the starting town has 2 smaller locations nearby: a raiders camp and an outpost controlled by a rival House. Overall, we have 12 main locations and 18 satellites. Currently.

That seems enough. Since I don't know anything about these locations or how many quests you have done I'll just give my two cents worth: I'd rather see fewer locations with more quests, interesting NPCs and factions than several locations but where each one contain far fewer quests, NPC's etc. One of the main reasons are that it makes each location more alive, not just antother prop you pass through.
 

keeks

Novice
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
76
Location
Estonia
Ivy Mike said:
I'd rather see fewer locations with more quests, interesting NPCs and factions than several locations but where each one contain far fewer quests, NPC's etc. One of the main reasons are that it makes each location more alive, not just antother prop you pass through.

Truer words were never said.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Not sure now. With the older graphics (see the original screen) that wasn't a problem. Text doesn't take much space. The new animations bumped the size up to 80MB with some small sacrifices like not showing equipped shields, etc.

Now we are discussing the possibility of switching to 3D for various reasons:

1) No matter what people claim, nice visuals are very, VERY important in an RPG
2) New animations (done in 3D, btw) got the best and the most enthusiastic responses
3) We can have a lot of great and distinctive looking characters showing different armor, weapons, shields; different materials like bronze, steel, etc weapons and armors.
4) Better looking terrain - we had many complaints in that area.
5) A lot of stuff was done in 3D like models and buildings. It would be easy to transfer all that. Interface, dialogue engine, character system, etc could be easily integrated as well.

That's the idea. We are playing with Torque right now
 

Spazmo

Erudite
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
5,752
Location
Monkey Island
And it seems like going 3D would make the engine more adaptable to different settings for future projects, eh? eh? eh?

Anyways, I really can't wait to play this, VD, so don't go Duke Nukem Forever on us and start adding features and new engines to the point that it never gets finished.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Spazmo said:
And it seems like going 3D would make the engine more adaptable to different settings for future projects, eh? eh? eh?
Yep. I do owe you a sci-fi project after all.

Anyways, I really can't wait to play this, VD
Thanks. Really appreciate the support

so don't go Duke Nukem Forever on us and start adding features and new engines to the point that it never gets finished.
Nah. You know how much efforts I've invested and how much has already been done. The features are reasonable, nothing fancy or over the top. As for the engine, I hate to do it, but I have to.
 

Human Shield

Augur
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
2,027
Location
VA, USA
Just include optional graphic upgrades. Strip out animations and weapon models for people that don't want to take the time to download (don't exist in other indie RPGs that they play) and have a 100 or so meg full version. With file sharing large files can move around.

A 2D game is fine, you said the animation GIFs were 8-sided sprites like Fallout. 3D animations can look worse, blocky models look worse then sprites. A rotating comera and shadows don't add much.

I sugguest you polish up the first town and release a demo, don't fall into feature creep and never release.
 

GuideBot

Novice
Joined
Jun 25, 2005
Messages
27
One of the advantages of 3d games is that they allow more realistic, and more interesting, locations. Isometric games such as Fallout had a very difficult time expressing changes in height - second floors were a second map, so you couldn't fight on a staircase. Hills overlooking towns are illusions, and having complex dungeons (like, say, Blackrock Spire in World of Warcraft) where height plays an important role is virtually impossible.

Torque is interesting, and it certainly seems capable of RPGs (as Minions of Mirth shows) so I'm very interested to see what you can come up with. I'm currently wanting to use Torque for an RPG I've been developing (very slowly...), and were it not for my complete ineptness in getting the damned thing to work, I'd have switched long ago from my very incomplete isometric engine.

I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
 

Ivy Mike

Scholar
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
495
Location
Ground Zero
I don't know about the 3D part. I've got nothing against 3D per se, but it's only recently that it's proven it can get you the same detail a 2D engine can - in RTS games for example. I prefer the look of AoD (as it is now) to that of Minions of Mirth, really. Of course if you could make the game using Torque and reach the same detail as a 2D game I'm all for it. Silent Storm managed to pull that of nicely, but that's almost the only example I can think of (and recent RTS games too). 3D for the sake of 3D isn't worth it, and if you have to lower the ammount of detail (that means enviromental stuff like houses, cupboards, tables, chairs, signs etc.) in the game too go 3D, I'd say skip it. A stale end empty 3D world looks like shit, a richly detailed 3D world requires heavy resources - and that's not exactly the market you're going after is it? As Human Shield said:
A 2D game is fine, you said the animation GIFs were 8-sided sprites like Fallout. 3D animations can look worse, blocky models look worse then sprites. A rotating comera and shadows don't add much.

Of course TOEE is very interseting in this regard, since it uses both 2D and 3D. I agree that 3D characters can be better for customization and the like, but that's all superficial anyway.

Some confused mind said:
As for the engine, I hate to do it, but I have to.

Huh? It's your game isn't it? You call the shots. I understand your choice if you think this will make the game reach a broader audience, but I doubt it will make that much of a difference.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Ivy Mike said:
I prefer the look of AoD (as it is now) to that of Minions of Mirth, really.
You and 10 other people. Appreciate the support and all, of course, but we'd need more than that.

Of course if you could make the game using Torque and reach the same detail as a 2D game I'm all for it. Silent Storm managed to pull that of nicely, but that's almost the only example I can think of (and recent RTS games too).
There aren't that many (0?) isometric 3D RPGs that I can think of, but RTSs definitely show that there is no reason to expect crappy details in 3D anymore.

3D for the sake of 3D isn't worth it
No arguing here

Some confused mind said:
As for the engine, I hate to do it, but I have to.
Huh? It's your game isn't it? You call the shots.
Calling the shots for the sake of calling the shots aint worth it. Many games were ruined or crippled that way. Anyway, what I meant is that the graphics were consistently criticized. Mind you, I agree with those complaints, the graphics are very basic. I hoped that that would be overlooked, it didn't happen, so the only choice left is to pay more attention to the visuals, and if that means switching to 3D, then that's the only choice.

I understand your choice if you think this will make the game reach a broader audience, but I doubt it will make that much of a difference.
Only one way to find out.
 

Shevek

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
1,570
Vault Dweller said:
There aren't that many (0?) isometric 3D RPGs that I can think of, but RTSs definitely show that there is no reason to expect crappy details in 3D anymore.

That Prelude to Darkness game was 3D and isometric.

One thing I would caution you on is that even with good graphics, people will always want more.

Also, this might interest you (ran across it the other day):
http://www.ogre3d.org/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=84
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Shevek said:
Vault Dweller said:
There aren't that many (0?) isometric 3D RPGs that I can think of, but RTSs definitely show that there is no reason to expect crappy details in 3D anymore.

That Prelude to Darkness game was 3D and isometric.
Of course. ToEE is another example, at least the characters. I have no idea what I was thinking when I made that comment.

Also, this might interest you (ran across it the other day):
http://www.ogre3d.org/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=84
Saw this one. We have considered a few 3D engines, but Torque seemed to be a better choice, assuming we can handle it.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Thanks. Nov if we continue with 2D, sometimes next year if we switch to 3D.
 

Stark

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
770
Hi VD,

just want to say this latest screens improve over the last ones by alot. it is definately shaping up very nicely. i especially like the characters. they look alot better now.
 

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