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AoD Char System & Concept Art

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,300
Location
Jersey for now
Yeah, but I'm going around telling everyone how awesome this game is gonna be, hyping it up more than Oblivion with Aids, so if'n you don't live up to my hype, I'm screwed. I'll have to change my internet name.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Perhaps VD's priority should now be opening an independent site for AoD, because hordes of ESFers seem to be suspected to storm the Codex and even if only a fraction of them clicked the link it could lead to new customers.

ESFers saying "Hey, VD did a not-perfect review of Oblivion, but just look at his game Age of Deckerdance! Without 40 ways of avatar customization and with so much text it sucks so hard it's unbelievable!" would be free publicity.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
I am obviously late to the party, an I am too lazy to read the thread. Anyway some thoughts:

- wouldn't it be better to hide faction standings until that faction is discovered in game? It seems a minor spoiler to give away joinable factions at the beginning.
- The text lower left indicates the ability to climb, but I see no climbing skill?
- No swimming skill??? I heard thats a very important one??? ;)
- Traits and ranks looks promising, as does diguise skill
- I would have hoped for more skills. How about woodsman/survival skill, barding, animal training...
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
GhanBuriGhan said:
- wouldn't it be better to hide faction standings until that faction is discovered in game? It seems a minor spoiler to give away joinable factions at the beginning.
On one hand, yes, on the other hand, the player learns about factions very early, and factions that couldn't be joined are never mentioned. So, displaying all the factions is no more different than displaying all the skills. Traits/ranks, however, should be discovered on your own.

Besides, many things that you do change your ratings with factions. You may have never joined Faction B, but they like your ass because you helped their ally or pissed of their enemy. All factions are tied together, so your standing with one affects all of them, which is why you should know where exactly you stand with all factions, and how acting against the Thieves Guild majorly pissed certain Noble House that was using thieves as spies in other towns.

- The text lower left indicates the ability to climb, but I see no climbing skill?
See above: There is a Dex check attached to that attempt. Similarly, there is no doorbashing skill, but you can do it if you STR is high enough. Anyway, climbing plays a large role in a game like DF/MW/OB, but it plays a very minor role in AoD, not enough to justify a skill to spend points on and try to become better at.

- No swimming skill??? I heard thats a very important one??? ;)
Same applies.

- I would have hoped for more skills. How about woodsman/survival skill, barding, animal training...
These skills don't fit the setting or the game. I can easily double the number of skills, but:

a) skills should be useful throughout the game, i.e. you should have an opportunity to apply your bard/woodsman/animal skills regularly.

b) you should have a reason to keep investing in those skills, especially vs other skills, i.e. 50 points in Woodsman skill should produce much better results than 20 points, and should be competetive with 50 points in Crafting or Alchemy, for example.
 

callehe

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
459
Location
Gothic Castle
hmm, maybe you shouldn't be told how high your liking among the factions are. I mean otherwise how could your faction betray you? one quest you do for your faction leader could actually be one where he tries to get rid of you conveniently. If you know that you're well liked, by that faction then it doesn't make sense.

perhaps there aren't any quests like these in the game, but it's worth thinking about not displaying too much for the player.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
callehe said:
hmm, maybe you shouldn't be told how high your liking among the factions are. I mean otherwise how could your faction betray you?
Betrayals are motivated by politics. If faction X hates you, they will simply kill you or at least try to. Betrayal is a different matter.
 

Jora

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
1,115
Location
Finland
Vault Dweller said:
b) you should have a reason to keep investing in those skills, especially vs other skills, i.e. 50 points in Woodsman skill should produce much better results than 20 points, and should be competetive with 50 points in Crafting or Alchemy, for example.
I don't see many difficulties there. A bard could start by singing in filthy, smoky taverns and, as his repertoire, skill and reputation grows, get better social status and access to palaces and places he wouldn't otherwise be allowed in.

A woodsman could learn to track down rarer prey and more cunning bandits, find secret places in the worldmap, tame more dangerous animals... This would similarly raise his reputation and give various benefits.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Bard is basically a silly version of loremaster, but less skilled. Woodsman doesn't fit the game well. There are very few dangerous animals, there is no party system to use animals, and his usefulness to factions is very limited.
 

Jora

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
1,115
Location
Finland
Can you tell us a bit more about loremaster and his usefulness to the factions? What else can he do besides identifying items? Translate?

(Being a loremaster is what I'm most looking forward to :) )
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Loremaster is a keeper and trader of knowledge. In a society that's focused on the glorious past and that associates progress with rediscovering some ancient knowledge, those who kept and studied the lore, the science, the history, the languages are needed and valued by peasants and lords alike.

A good loremaster is a cross between a theoretical scientist, who learned from scrolls and legends, and a poorly educated engineer with a talent to understand how things work. Plus the language skills. What a loremaster can read and most importantly understand, other characters would see as a gibberish.

Loremasters are often consulted and employed by different factions to identify numerious things collected on daily basis, to guide digging teams, and to use/deploy/maintain artifacts for benefits of the faction.

Something like that.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Vault Dweller said:
GhanBuriGhan said:
- wouldn't it be better to hide faction standings until that faction is discovered in game? It seems a minor spoiler to give away joinable factions at the beginning.
On one hand, yes, on the other hand, the player learns about factions very early, and factions that couldn't be joined are never mentioned. So, displaying all the factions is no more different than displaying all the skills. Traits/ranks, however, should be discovered on your own.

Besides, many things that you do change your ratings with factions. You may have never joined Faction B, but they like your ass because you helped their ally or pissed of their enemy. All factions are tied together, so your standing with one affects all of them, which is why you should know where exactly you stand with all factions, and how acting against the Thieves Guild majorly pissed certain Noble House that was using thieves as spies in other towns.
I would prefer if the faction standing with factions you are not a member in would play out through gameplay rather than being obvious through a number on the screen. I assume you have all kinds of consequences in place for bad rep, so why not let the player run into that (and maybe give him hints for reasons in dialogue) instead of waving the flag to the player like through the number on this sheet, basically saying "Uh-Oh, better not go near THESE guys anymore.
- The text lower left indicates the ability to climb, but I see no climbing skill?
See above: There is a Dex check attached to that attempt. Similarly, there is no doorbashing skill, but you can do it if you STR is high enough. Anyway, climbing plays a large role in a game like DF/MW/OB, but it plays a very minor role in AoD, not enough to justify a skill to spend points on and try to become better at.

- No swimming skill??? I heard thats a very important one??? ;)
Same applies.
I guessed as much, but yeah, it makes sense if it's not a major gmaplay element, but maybe it could be made more important and thus warrant a skill? But its fine by me.
- I would have hoped for more skills. How about woodsman/survival skill, barding, animal training...
These skills don't fit the setting or the game. I can easily double the number of skills, but:

a) skills should be useful throughout the game, i.e. you should have an opportunity to apply your bard/woodsman/animal skills regularly.

b) you should have a reason to keep investing in those skills, especially vs other skills, i.e. 50 points in Woodsman skill should produce much better results than 20 points, and should be competetive with 50 points in Crafting or Alchemy, for example.

Hmm, why wouldn't they fit the setting? From the little I know about the backstory, and the screens / art I have seen, I can't see why it wouldn't fit?
to a and b: Well, than make it so :) Personally I think more layers to the gameplay that these skills would represent would most likely benefit the gameplay.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
GhanBuriGhan said:
I would prefer if the faction standing with factions you are not a member in would play out through gameplay rather than being obvious through a number on the screen.
It's merely a form of feedback, to point out that everything is connected, and to give a better idea of how actions and choices affect things.

I assume you have all kinds of consequences in place for bad rep, so why not let the player run into that (and maybe give him hints for reasons in dialogue) instead of waving the flag to the player like through the number on this sheet, basically saying "Uh-Oh, better not go near THESE guys anymore.
Well, I'm playing Space Rangers 2 now, and often it's not very clear where you stand with factions and why.

Hmm, why wouldn't they fit the setting? From the little I know about the backstory, and the screens / art I have seen, I can't see why it wouldn't fit?
Uh, no. I will explain more later, no time now.
 

Drain

Scholar
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
215
Location
Here
Vault Dweller said:
Betrayals are motivated by politics. If faction X hates you, they will simply kill you or at least try to. Betrayal is a different matter.
Does this mean that faction member will try to kill you whenever they see you or they will hire killers(a la BG1). If latter, are these killing attempts procedurally generated or they are scripted events?
 

callehe

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
459
Location
Gothic Castle
Vault Dweller said:
callehe said:
hmm, maybe you shouldn't be told how high your liking among the factions are. I mean otherwise how could your faction betray you?
Betrayals are motivated by politics. If faction X hates you, they will simply kill you or at least try to. Betrayal is a different matter.

but if a faction hates you why would they tell you that openly? wouldn't they, if it fit their personality, try to lure you into a trap? shouldn't it be possible for them to pretend that they like you and then stab you in the back? my suggestion is that you could have the scores reflect the PC's* perception* of that particular factions feelings towards you instead of their *real* liking or disliking. (though this would be quite unnecessary if you don't plan to have any betrayals of the PC).

on another point - isn't it a little generic to assume one value to each faction? each faction could have inner politics which would make some leaders within the faction hate you and others love you, or are the factions so homogenous in their ideology that internal fightings are not possible?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Drain said:
Vault Dweller said:
Betrayals are motivated by politics. If faction X hates you, they will simply kill you or at least try to. Betrayal is a different matter.
Does this mean that faction member will try to kill you whenever they see you or they will hire killers(a la BG1). If latter, are these killing attempts procedurally generated or they are scripted events?
Depends on the faction. Hired killers are procedurally generated.

callehe said:
...but if a faction hates you why would they tell you that openly?
Because you are nothing to factions. To give you an analogy, would a large corporation or a government play such petty games with you?

on another point - isn't it a little generic to assume one value to each faction? each faction could have inner politics which would make some leaders within the faction hate you and others love you, or are the factions so homogenous in their ideology that internal fightings are not possible?
Agree on that point, but it would have been too much work for me to add that much depth to factions. The game is already very complex, and adding more and more layers of complexity would have probably killed the project.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
No. Work-in-progress means it's unfinished. Unfinished means many disappointed people.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Yes. Once I feel that I've done everything I could (which isn't the same as work in progress), then I will have some people test the game and prove me wrong.
 

Relien

Scholar
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
380
Location
Tremere chantry
callehe said:
on another point - isn't it a little generic to assume one value to each faction? each faction could have inner politics which would make some leaders within the faction hate you and others love you, or are the factions so homogenous in their ideology that internal fightings are not possible?

I think that's ok, this value can represent the whole faction's 'official' view of you, and any possible personal likings/loathings by its particular members can be added to that.
 

Severian Silk

Guest
I think the table cells in the stat sheet should be plain, gray boxes with transparent borders. (E.g., use your engine's equivalent of HTML cellspacing instead of border.) Either that, or make more use of inset/outset for the table cells.

I will try and come up with an example.
 

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