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AOD Combat Demo Impressions

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,209
Thought I'd make an "official" thread. As some of you already know, the demo is now out. I've played two fights so far. I'll post some impressions later. Anyway, let's make this the main topic here.

EDIT: Looks like Monolith beat me to it.
 

Melcar

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
35,419
Location
Merida, again
Camera is shit. Hope they implement WASD . Also wish you could manipulate the camera with the keyboard instead of the mouse; initiate it with the mouse, but then be able to use the arrow keys to rotate, with WASD used for panning.
So far that's my only beef with the demo. Combat action seems fluid enough.
I have encountered a bug though related to combat. It has happened twice so far. When I enter combat sometimes I can't attack. I hover the target thingy over the enemy but the percentage score does not appear and clicking doesn't produce an attack. I can move and access the inventory, just can't attack. Haven't been able to get past the second arena fight because of it. Of course, since I'm playing with WINE, it could be something unique to my setup and not be affecting you guys.
Oh, and is there a run key? You can run by double clicking, but that's lame.
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
It's playable on WINE on my low-end computer :D ! Yeah :D !

I have no problem with attacking, I have fought only two fights, though.
Looks better than on screenshots.
One thing that I didn't like is that the fight feels like they are fighting with oversized butter knifes.
 

Jora

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
1,115
Location
Finland
Shit, really? The NWN2 camera is shit, the Prelude to Darkness camera is shit, but this? Hell, I think it works better than the one in Dragon Age.
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
Now I see why dodge working like it works makes sense. The starting value of the dodge skill is much smaller than the starting value of selected weapon skill, which means that it's much more difficult to become a great dodger than a great hitter - so, the weapon = dodge situation is rather unlikely unless one encounters a much more powerful specialised dodger.

I don't like the idea of static dodge, though - it would be nice if a dodging character would move out of his field instead of just standing there. It's a dodge, after all. And it should require having enough APs to move to another field.
 

Melcar

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
35,419
Location
Merida, again
That dude with the hammer keeps killing me :x . Almost had him, but my last fast attack missed. Fucker.
Tried a few builds so far, and one I liked the most was a high strength spear-man. Haven't tried ranged combat yet though.
The no attacking thing seemed to go away after I reinstalled the game. Sound does tend to die out randomly (has only happened twice so far).
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Melcar said:
Camera is shit. Hope they implement WASD . Also wish you could manipulate the camera with the keyboard instead of the mouse.
Ctrl + mouse to the edge of the screen
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
Location
Third World
Really fun demo, playing a STR/CON character using spear + shield.

Damn fight against the three Barbarians, the two-handed axe guy keeps destroying my shield. :(
 

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,209
Since I started this thread I thought I'd post my impressions. Here goes.

So, I beat it. It was very fun. Lots of tactical variety even with the somewhat simple build I made. I wasn't sure how well I'd do since I haven't really played any challenging tactical combat games, or if I'd end up hating it because it was too much for me; but that definitely wasn't the case. I had a blast. The opponents were definitely varied and showed off the combat well. I also like how everyone has the same general amount of hitpoints. Makes everyone seem mortal. Challenging opponenets are instead challenging beacuse of their armor and their block/dodge skill, as well as their ability to circumvent your own. Other developers should take notes.

As for my build, I put all my points into spear and dodge. Here he is after killing the final guy:

Spearman.jpg


Since I decided on dodge I got a two-handed spear and did light armor. One thing that happened was that I ended up accumlating a lot of gold (about 6000) with really nothing to spend it on. After I had bought the best spear (trident) and best armor for my playstyle (which was cheap considering it was light) there wasn't really anything to buy until the merchant got better stuff. I understand that in the final game there will be other things to spend money on besides weapons and armor, but still.

Anyway, after beating the demo I thought I'd go back and try to fight that battle in the inn. After several tries I actually beat it. And here in my proof!

Victory.jpg


Makes me wonder just how good the combat will be in the final game when it takes place in the actual gameworld instead of an open arena. I'm still planning on playing a grifter for my first play-through, but playing this demo almost makes me want to reconsider. Subsequent play-thoughs for sure.

As for the other things apart from combat, they were all good if not for some glitches. Animations were very good for an indie. But of course, we'd already seen the video. Music I can't comment on since I didn't get to hear most of it (explained below). The writing was good, though I didn't get to see much from the PC, until the very end. I liked those options, especially the "body count" one. All in all, everything was good and looked very professional.

I encountered some glitches. I'm going to post this in the official thread at ITS, but I thought I'd detail them here as well. Basically, the first time I started the demo everything worked fine and was smooth. Then, after starting it up a second time, there were problems. Music tracks would start and only continue for a maximum of ten seconds before cutting off. The other noises seemed to work fine. What was more annoying involved the...well, I'm not sure what you'd call it. Things got very choppy. I could see my character sort of "jump" across the ground as he was walking. This also effected combat animations and things like the banners fluttering in the wind. But the worst part was that it also affected the camera as I panned or rotated it, making it almost impoosible to get it at the angle and view that I wanted. Definitely a bug/glitch of some sort. Not sure if it's related to the music or not.

Also, a few minor suggestions:

-a quick save would be nice
-some of the weapons in the merchant window blend in a little bit with the background. That should be addressed somehow.
-an ability to see your equiped items when trading would be nice as well, as well as the chance to sell them and equip new purchases on the spot
-a way to simply click on someone to initiate dialogue as opposed to having to walk up to them first

And a few questions as well:

-You tweaked a few things for the demo. How many combat situations are new/different as opposed to the actual game?
-Do you get the same experience for those kills or is it less?
-Are the arena master's offers at the end for joining either of those houses what really happens in the game? What if you already had prior assocaition with either of those houses? Likewise, are the guards coming to your inn room something that will happen, and if so, is it possible to avoid them?
-Is it possible to "cheat" or otherwise interact with some of the arena opponents in the final game, or are they basically non-existent in the "world" until you fight them?
-Is the PC dialogue with the arena master the same as in the original game, or has it been modified/cut-out?

That does it for now. Great job, I really enjoyed the demo and will probably try some more builds. Cant wait to play the game.

Also, I didn't see any message at the end asking for donations for the marketing campaign. :wink:
 

relootz

Scholar
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
4,478
I have tried to make contact to the Arena Master 4 times and it crashed the game twice.

Also how does one skip his turn, to renew AP?

How do turn the camera (if possible)?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,035
Dicksmoker said:
Great job, I really enjoyed the demo and will probably try some more builds. Cant wait to play the game.
Thanks.

relootz said:
Also how does one skip his turn, to renew AP?
Hit the space bar or the swords icon.

How do turn the camera (if possible)?
Hold down the middle button or the scroll wheel. Or ctrl + move your mouse to the edge of the screen.
 

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,086
Too much "fuck" in the Journal entries. It felt out of place. I hope that in the rest of the game there are more varied ways to express disdain.
 

Zed

Codex Staff
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
17,068
Codex USB, 2014
I like it.

Something bothered me though.
When exiting the arena, the character jumped out instantly without even walking towards the door first.

I also agree with ghostdog.

Other than that it felt pretty solid.
 

obediah

Erudite
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
5,051
ghostdog said:
Too much "fuck" in the Journal entries. It felt out of place. I hope that in the rest of the game there are more varied ways to express disdain.

They couldn't afford nextgen graphics, had a lot of trouble implementing a cover system, and VD sucked at writing campfire romance, so they took the cheap road of dropping a ton of f-bombs to get nextgen cred with the kiddies.
 

Joghurt

Augur
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
980
Can't play it. It just freezes when I talk to the Arena Master after the second fight. It happened after the first fight too, but I tried again and it didn't freeze.

But the first two fight were awesome.

BTW what does that shit mean when it's loading - "Not enough memory. Loading DOS into upper memory block." ? Maybe that's the problem ? How do I fix that ?
 

Joghurt

Augur
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
980
I sure hope you're trolling...

I am really not trolling. I understand the part about "Not enough memory.", but since I have GF8600M GT with 128 memory and 4 gigs of ram I am a little confused, because I don't know a shit about technical computer stuff...
 

Arem

Scholar
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
127
Demo is quite tyte, however performance is not.

I think it is even worse than NWN2 v1.00 on my notebook :?
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6,992
Is alt-tabbingt supported? I crash on exiting and entering.
Looting is pretty dodgy, I've had to leave two bodies unplundered due to not being able to open their inventory.
And a few missiles won't sell and it says 'not enough items!' in the status bar.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
I've just installed and have yet to start fighting. Here are some non-combat impressions/suggestions:

It's kind of strange (and tactically exploitative) that you can see NPCs everywhere all the time. Is this how it's planned to be with the full game? It might be better to have NPCs appear/rendered only within a certain radius and/or with a line of sight check, similar to JA2.

An option to zoom further out would be nice. As it is, you need to pan the camera too many times for moving relatively short distances and I have a feeling that the arena won't be the only nice location in full game that I'll want to have a better & complete overview.

Option to keep the camera centered on your character is in order.

Option to adjust font size in dialogue would be very nice, very useful. I feel like I'm reading forum posts except I can't adjust font size with ctrl + mouse wheel (I'm a spoiled webstard).

It's nice that you can zoom in & out in world window in dialogue screen.

Non-issue graphical glitch: when you zoom in, some shadows disappear.

Non-issue graphical stuff: it would be nice if the characters didn't look lit at all times, including when under shadows.

It would be useful if some of the tent-tops (where you can walk under/into) also disappeared

I've made some extensive arguments in the past about this and I'll repeat it now: an orthographic rendering option would be so great. Perhaps it's just me but I find it somewhat disorienting to move/pan/rotate the camera around in perspective, especially when some level geometry obstructs your view because it gets bigger towards the camera. I've felt the same in every 3D isometric game, while every 2D iso game I've played felt a lot more intuitive/natural. UFO:Alien Invasion (open source and open game development ie. source code can be inspected to see how they did it) had that option to render the game in orthographic and it helps a lot.

What's your opinion on fog of war? A FoW that only slightly grays out (as in far enough but previously explored places in IE games). It could improve the looks of the game.

Overall texture quality is too inconsistent.

I'd like an option to turn grid on/off for all of your view. In some places in town, it isn't clear whether you can walk on a certain tile without trying.

Have you considered an option to make character and his immediate surrounding in a small radius always visible even when behind some stuff, identical to Fallout?

Likewise, it might be useful to have an option to have the character models outlined and the outlines rendered over everything else so you can tell if there's anyone anywhere that your character can see but you can't (especially in/for combat).

I don't know if this was intentional but doors don't block movement when open so you can move between the tiles behind and in front of, passing through the door(s).

edit:

When you right click on weapon slot to see attack options, it would be useful to see associated AP costs right there in the context menu.

You might think about making colliders one-way only / single faced. Sometimes when you zoom into a place and move the camera, you can't zoom back out because the camera is in front of a colliding object.

Combat music is really tiring.
 

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,086
Talking to the arena master randomly crashes the game.
 

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