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AoD combat screens - updated

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Re: Some AoD combat screens

Vault Dweller said:

GFX:
-The interface is great now. Kudos to Elohim, and that thread, it was really worth the hassle.
-Character models look quite decent to me.
Some stretching and seams with the ground texture, but you know: don't worry about it.
-Blurry blocks: again, don't worry about it.
- More rubble or decals would look nice though, just more breaking up of the monotony of the ground texture. E.g. the parts with plants look much better than the parts without. More small rocks, sticks, moss, roadkill...

Ergonomics:

- The font for the to-hit % could be a little larger
- Instead of the aiming reticule use a more suitable pointer icon, e.g. a sword for melee attacks and a bow for ranged attacks.
- "X hits for 0 damage": is that before or after the armor is subtracted? Maybe this could be more clear: E.g. X hits you for 4 points of damge, armor absorbs 5 points, you suffer 0 damage

It looks good, lets have the video.
 

MasPingon

Arcane
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
1,785
Location
Castle Rock
Vault Dweller were you inspired by this game?(Odium/Gorky 17) I mean combat system ofcourse

scr02.jpg
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
Looks fine.

So, everybody please stop demanding better eye candy. I'd rather play the game already instead of waiting for vd&friends to tool around with ground textures.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
MasPingon said:
Vault Dweller were you inspired by this game?(Odium/Gorky 17) I mean combat system ofcourse
No, why? I played this game a long time ago, but it didn't leave any lasting impressions.

GhanBuriGhan said:
"X hits for 0 damage": is that before or after the armor is subtracted? Maybe this could be more clear: E.g. X hits you for 4 points of damge, armor absorbs 5 points, you suffer 0 damage
After.

Kingston said:
Are aimed attacks balanced? In Fallout it was always the eye you shot for.
Hopefully. Targeting different areas produce different effects. Head - knockdown, Torso - bypass armor, Arms - disarm, Legs - cripple.

caliban said:
Will there be verbose combat messages for crits like in Fallout (along the lines of "x was hit critically in the eyes for 50 damage. The loss of an eye is too much for him and he falls to the ground moaning")?
Work in progress. Help is always appreciated:
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18609

What we have currently is:
Critical strike! You hit <victim> for <amount> points of damage, bypassing armor.";
Critical strike! You hit <victim> for <amount> points of damage, causing massive damage to vital organs.";
Critical strike! You hit <victim> for <amount> points of damage, knocking <victim_himher> down.";
Etc.

Will there be combat taunts in the form of float messages? I kinda liked those in Fallout too.
The feature is in. The lines aren't (not enough time). Again, any help you guys can give us will be appreciated.

Make a surrender animation - for example, when an NPC loses 90% of his health, he falls to his knees and begs you to spare his life, and you can either execute him or let him go.
We use dialogues for that. Some people will fight "till the bitter end", some people will start begging for their lives and negotiating.

bryce77 said:
Is there a way to leave your ranged weapons set to automatically aim for the eyes as the default action?
The Boo mode? No.

Also, how many different ways of attacking with a single weapon are there?
Normal, Fast, Power, Crowd Control, Aimed: Head, Aimed: Torso, Aimed: Arms, Aimed: Legs.
 

Ander Vinz

Scholar
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
645
Elhoim said:
Textures on huge blocks are too low-res.
The engine is messing with them a little. In 3DS they look better...
Maybe there is a way to make them look better without increasing texture size...
You can put better textures in box version or make free downloadable patch. I mean, when you have whole CD (or DVD) you don't have to worry about texture size and you can reward people who paid double price for the box with some additional stuff.
 

Jora

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
1,115
Location
Finland
Looks great as always. The textures don't bother me the least and the animations seem good from what I can tell from these screens. I like poses of the fighter with the hammer above his head and the other guy falling down.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Lestat said:
Vault Dweller said:
Aimed: Arms, Aimed: Legs.

If arms and legs are critically hit will it affect victim's accuracy/speed/AP?
Arms - disarms your opponent (i.e. he will drop his weapon). Legs - cut the AP pool in half.
 

Ander Vinz

Scholar
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
645
Nedrah said:
So, everybody please stop demanding better eye candy. I'd rather play the game already instead of waiting for vd&friends to tool around with ground textures.
I can forgive a lot of things but blurry textures is a bad taste, especially when they have a guy like Elhoim for this kind of work. Look at character models and textures: if they keep up with such quality it can even compensate lack of artwork.
 

Hümmelgümpf

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
2,949
Location
St. Petersburg, Russia
Vault Dweller said:
Arms - disarms your opponent (i.e. he will drop his weapon). Legs - cut the AP pool in half.

Wow! And how difficult is it to cause such severe effects? I mean, in Fallout it was pretty easy to bump your chance to hit every body spot up to 95%, so the battles weren't too challenging.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Ander Vinz said:
Nedrah said:
So, everybody please stop demanding better eye candy. I'd rather play the game already instead of waiting for vd&friends to tool around with ground textures.
I can forgive a lot of things but blurry textures is a bad taste, especially when they have a guy like Elhoim for this kind of work. Look at character models and textures: if they keep up with such quality it can even compensate lack of artwork.
It's the engine, not Elhoim. The engine is old and it tends to fuck a lot of art things up.

Lestat said:
Wow! And how difficult is it to cause such severe effects? I mean, in Fallout it was pretty easy to bump your chance to hit every body spot up to 95%, so the battles weren't too challenging.
I'm at work now, so I can't give you the exact formulas. Keep in mind that hitting someone in the legs and scoring a critical hit in the legs are two different things. The former depends on your weapon skills, the latter depends on your Critical Strike skill.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Vault Dweller said:
Lestat said:
Vault Dweller said:
Aimed: Arms, Aimed: Legs.

If arms and legs are critically hit will it affect victim's accuracy/speed/AP?
Arms - disarms your opponent (i.e. he will drop his weapon). Legs - cut the AP pool in half.
Wouldn't movement cost x2 work better, e.g. they can still shoot as much but not move as much as before?

Are the taunts to be universal or can the be conditional (e.g. dependent on player skill and attributes, faction, etc.)
 

Vidder

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
102
I would like to see a screen with less intrusive colors for the squares. maybe just shade (make them darker) the movement fields, and just use a colored border for the weapon ranges or something?

also, in the first shot (ranged weapon?) it is not very clear which char is active. so maybe the square the active char. stands on could also be marked somehow.
 

Ander Vinz

Scholar
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
645
Vault Dweller said:
It's the engine, not Elhoim. The engine is old and it tends to fuck a lot of art things up.
He explained already. Btw, are you going to use this engine for your next project?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
I'd really like to get a better engine, but that would mean longer development time. This engine has been tweaked for the kind of games we'd like to make and it will cut the development time in half for future games. I guess it would depend on how AoD will be received.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
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Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,878
Location
San Isidro, Argentina
Vault Dweller said:
I'd really like to get a better engine, but that would mean longer development time. This engine has been tweaked for the kind of games we'd like to make and it will cut the development time in half for future games. I guess it would depend on how AoD will be received.

Maybe you can switch to a better version of Torque for the next game, like 1.5 or the TGE Advanced version.
 

M0RBUS

Augur
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
206
Vault Dweller said:
Jasede said:
Oh, will it have a walking animation?
Of course. We have a shitload of animations. Different attacks (fast, normal, power, special) use different animations. We have walking, running, and even idle, scratching your ass animations.
That's very nice :cool: I'm not a graphic whore, but the better graphics the happier I'll be :P Anyway, the combat looks fantastic, I can't wait to see it in action.
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,659
Location
Cydonia
Vault Dweller said:
Lestat said:
Vault Dweller said:
Aimed: Arms, Aimed: Legs.

If arms and legs are critically hit will it affect victim's accuracy/speed/AP?
Arms - disarms your opponent (i.e. he will drop his weapon). Legs - cut the AP pool in half.

Something that might be too late to consider...

For Melee combat, don't make targetted/special attacks have a lower TH ratio. Instead make it that they're more risky. If you try to hit somebody's head in real life, it isn't that difficult. The trade-off is that it leaves you open to attack.

Do it at the same TH ratio (or slightly lower) but with a decrease in your dodge until your next round... and/or a chance of 'critical fumble' (being disarmed/having your move turned against you, opponent gets free strike at you).

Say...

Strike (general) = default TH ratio (eg 60%)
Strike (sword/weapon arm - arm closest to you) = default * 0.8 TH ratio (ie 48%), 10% chance of critical miss (90 or more on first roll)
Strike (head) = default * 0.7 *(41%) - harder to hit, because opponent instinctively expects it (and it's more damaging), critical miss of 10%
Strike (shield/other arm) = default * 0.6 (it's further away from you... and why would you want to attack to non-weapon arm? - maybe if the enemy is a spellcaster or has a potion in it), critical miss of 15% (more risky)
Strike (weapon/forward leg) = default*0.7 (48%), critical miss chance of 20% (swiping at the legs leaves you very open)
Strike (other leg) = default*0.6, critical chance 15%

Right (by default) arm damage affects enemy's TH and parry skill, left (other) arm affects shield protection skill

Right leg damage affects dodging and attack (footwork is important in attack), other leg damage could affect just dodging but by more

The Fallout TH calculations made sense for guns, but no sense for other kinds of combat.

edit:
Finally, how about an additional Parry/Weapon defence option? Costs (Total APs -1)/2 and gives you a bonus to Dodge/Parry. Possibly make the defence bonus dependent on weapon type. Full out defence (using the option twice) gives you double the defence bonus but you can't attack - and have just one AP maybe to switch weapons or move one square.

Even better... a Feint maneuver. You sacrafice all APs that turn (but don't get a defence bonus), for the chance of a Critical fumble/Reaction strike against only the first attack in the enemy's turn.

Give the enemy a chance TH/2. If you Dodge/parry, you get an automatic attack at default*1.5. Or just the normal TH ratio but it's automatically a critical.

Or, make a roll to see if the enemy is fooled. Could be based on a derivative of your weapon skill vs the enemy's weapon skill. If enemy has Skill level of 40, you have Skill level of 50, the chance of a successful maneuver is (50 + (((50-40)/10)^2)*10) = 60%. If you had a skill rating of 60 it would be 90%, a skill of 20 giving 10%. That would be the chance of the first enemy's attack failing and giving you a chance at a critical strike back.

A Feint maneuver might not be necessary though, a Defence option definitely is. I'm guessing you'd have to modify the AI (do the enemies use the Targetted/Power/etc options?).

edit2:
Are there any fights in the game where you have companions? Can you give them orders like F2's Combat Control?
 

Claw

Erudite
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The center of my world.
Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Gambler said:
Let's say you you have melee weapons with 4 attack modes in both slots. With Fallout interface (in worst case scenario) you need to make 6 right mouse clicks to switch to the right modes, then make 2 clicks to go to targeting mode, then make 2 clicks to actually attack. That's 10 clicks for 2 actions. All of that could be handled by a right-click menu. You right-click on an enemy, click on the attack type, you're done.
I don't like the idea of having to select my attack every time. Maybe a right-click menu on the weapon slot instead of circling through attacks would work, though?


GhanBuriGhan said:
Wouldn't movement cost x2 work better, e.g. they can still shoot as much but not move as much as before?
Also, it seems overpowered. The effects of disarm or knockdown may only be temporary and forgotten one round later. Halving your AP pool could severely limit your tactical options.
I'd propose a mixed solution. Minus one AP and doubled movement cost.
 

MF

The Boar Studio
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Developer
Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Messages
889
Location
Amsterdam
It looks great. The colors seem a little over saturated, -plastic skin etc- but the overall look with the interface has become quite good. I'm really curious about sound, though. Is the video going to have sound?
 

OlSheep

Novice
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
42
Location
Lost in Quebec
Elhoim said:
The engine is messing with them a little. In 3DS they look better...

<pic>

Maybe there is a way to make them look better without increasing texture size...

I'm no art tech (really, I'm speaking out of my ass here) but it looks as though the engine is overzealous with the linear filtering...

I vaguely remember that filter ruining 2D images in a program I wrote a few years ago...

If Torque allows it, you might want to try passing GL_NEAREST to glTexParameter when you're texturing smaller objects (such as rocks).
 

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