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AoD combat video

callehe

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
459
Location
Gothic Castle
some attack and dodge animations are little weak, but the throwing animation looks great. Let your animator watch some episodes of rome to get some inspiration (for instance phillipe, thirteen and the episode where pullo trains octavian).
 

EliotW

Educated
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
53
- As everyone has said the animations move fairly slowly.

- Playing a game without sound effects would be quite strange at this point. Something even if its very little would be better than nothing.

- No attacks of opportunity? I'm thinking of the moment when the character turns his back on the assassin type.

- Why does the crossbow NPC advance towards the player? Is he trying to maintain line of sight? I would think with a range weapon he would otherwise try to keep his distance.

The video looked quite good though. The combat system sounds interesting with the compromises between each attack mode and the types of armor. Really like the music as well.
 

pkt-zer0

Scholar
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
594
Vault Dweller said:
Here is the formula:

<bad_enough_dude> hits you for <amount> points of damage.
You hit <bad_enough_dude> for ...

<bad_enough_dude> could be either profession (guard) or name (Cassius). We can add "the" either before the tag or to the profession. The problem in the first case would be "The Cassius hits you....". The problem in the second case would be "you hit The Guard for ..." or "the Guard hits you....". So for now we simply dropped "the" entirely.

Add a flag which you can check to determine whether the NPC is a named one or not, and insert a "the" in the latter case. Afterwards, check if it's at the start of the line, and capitalize the word if necessary.
Sounds simple enough, but I'm unaware of all the possible limitations/restrictions you're working with, so it might not be that simple in practice.

On a completely different note: the death-by-thrown-spear animation was awesome. 'Extreme' and 'epic' and 'immersive', even.
 

Frau Bishop

Erudite
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
2,147
Location
Mitten im Vaterland
Ok, combat looks good enough! Now stop the graphics whoring and make us some sweet quests!
And cool unique items, with lots of flavour text. And nifty character development. And make haste, I want to play it at Christmas holiday 07! :)
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Montreal
Pretty decent in general - most of the points I'd make have been covered. (dodge animation, sounds, hit graphic)
I would suggest toning down the sarcasm a little though VD. While it's true that anyone who reads the article all the way through would probably only be put off if it's not their sort of thing anyway, not everyone reads every article to the end. Some potential customers might get as far as "The game is no longer turn-based.", and stop reading (I wouldn't for an RPG - combat mechanics don't overly bother me -, but some people might).
 

dragonfk

Erudite
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
2,487
Someone nuke Obsidian forums, please...They shouldnt be harder to vanishqe than ordinary mutant from FO 3 so 3-4 nukes should suffice. I would do it by myself, but it seems my storage has just run out of them...
 

Nick

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
317
Location
Over the hills and far away
pkt-zer0 said:
Add a flag which you can check to determine whether the NPC is a named one or not, and insert a "the" in the latter case. Afterwards, check if it's at the start of the line, and capitalize the word if necessary.

Exactly what I suggested to do. But had to finish the video ASAP, otherwise someone could start hunting my head. At least I was threatened so here, at Codex. It's serious, y'know, these guys aren't joking.
 

quasimodo

Augur
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
372
I've been keeping an eye on this game for awhile and I must say the TB combat looks great.

I know it seems unlikely, but some of those folks who don't get the sarcasm might just become born again TB gamers if you suck up to them with a little PR.
 

Claw

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,777
Location
The center of my world.
Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Do my eyes decieve me or is there actually blood splatter that everyone just missed?
Maybe just on critical strikes? Also, it's gone very fast and the colour might be brighter, maybe that's just the video though.

And since I was focused on negative cricicism, let me just add that the speer throwing and death animation were delicious. I also like the overhead attack with the curved two-handed blade a lot.
 

Amasius

Augur
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
959
Location
Thanatos
I guess there is only "blood splatter" if damage is inflicted and our hero in the video doesn't take damage often.

For the speed of the animations (and anything else combat related) just take a look at ToEE again. In this regard Troika made everything right.
 

cardtrick

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
1,456
Location
Maine
Just watched the higher quality video, and thought a little more about the video as a whole. I still really like it. I agree with all of the points that have been repeatedly made before:

1)Combat animations need to be sped up.

2)Characters should turn to face whoever is attacking them, unless facing plays a tactical role in the game.

3)The dodge animation doesn't look like dodging. (In fact, the thing that looks most like dodging is when someone attacks your character from the side, hits, but doesn't do damage. You step backward somewhat, but since you haven't turned to face your enemy, it looks like a sidestep.)

That said, I really like the dodge animation in and of itself. It looks like your character kind of staggers back, barely escaping something, or barely stopping himself in time. It's too bad there wasn't an option to feint in this game . . . that would be a great thing to play after someone feinted you. It would look like your character was off balance from the feint, and would thus be easier to hit on the next attack.

Some new thoughts from me:

The Age of Decadence logo looks pretty badass.

I like the small green diamond that appears on the ground when you click to move somewhere, and then fades away. Subtle bits of user feedback like this make the game seem very professional.

I think there is a sufficient amount of blood splatter, although if there was a random chance of some spots staying on the ground after each splatter animation, that would be cool (but completely unnecessary). I assume Fallout-style gore is impossible with the 3D models, which is fine. It seems like almost every melee hit that does damage causes blood, which is fine.

Really nitpicky: the character model in the inventory screen is weirdly tiny. It just looks small in that big box.

Somewhat less nitpicky (actually, I think things like this are kind of important): you should be able to double-click a weapon or other item in your inventory and have it immediately be equipped. It shouldn't be necessary to drag the item from your inventory onto the equipment slot (maybe this functionality already exists, but the video didn't show it).
 

Sarvis

Erudite
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
5,050
Location
Buffalo, NY
It's seriously a solo character? Not a party?

Why? Seriously, tactical options are so limited as a single character there's no point in having a tactical combat system. If you add AI allies it's even worse since they'll screw up any tactic you might try.


Will it be possible to control the game with all (or at least mostly) keyboard? Just watching the player select different attacks made my wrist hurt. Hitting one key ('a' perhaps) to go into attack mode, then arrow keys to select the kind of attack would be a lot better.
 

Paranoid Jack

Scholar
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
186
Looks damned good... a few of the minor complaints aside. I loved the article but agree some less open minded people may only hate on the sarcasm. But I thrive off it. Even more excited about playing the game and will restate my offer to pre-order now just to be part of the beta testing. :)

I must be old fashioned I love slow TB games. :P

I could live with everything the way it is but would prefer a bit faster animations also. Maybe making several speed variations to differentiate between the speed of the attacks? As far as the animations for dodge (back wards stumble) keep it but just add a few others to mix it up. I know animations take a long time to do so making so many variations with the different weapons can eat a lot of time. Again I could live without it but it would make the game more entertaining.

The trade off is that game looks less indie and more small but up and coming studio. Either way keep up the good work and stick to your guns. :wink:
 

Helton

Arcane
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
6,789
Location
Starbase Delta
Vault Dweller said:
Anyway, about the video. The dodge animation will be replaced. The speed and overall flow will be improved. We just wanted to show you something, how the game looks and plays, the animations, etc. The next video will focus on mechanics and tactics, and hopefully, will make the game look more appealing.

With that I think this looks very promising.

Sfx are a must, though.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Vault Dweller said:
GhanBuriGhan said:
- How are the combat sounds (I assume its not just music in game?), could we get some samples?
We don't have them. Maybe yet, maybe at all.
I think that would be rather important. A game without sound effects would feel really weird, especially with this level of graphics. It's one of the things that one could probably get used to, but it will turn people off initially, and thats maybe something you want to avoid, especially since you go the demo/shareware route. It's something people will peruse the options screen and write you emails about, because its simply expected to be there.
This is a bit of a bummer, cause I realize implementing this will take considerable time. But I am a big believer in the importance of sound for creating atmosphere, and my vote would be for getting someone who can produce a solid set of combat sounds at the very least (Maybe there is someone here? The Codex seems to house a lot of talent). Or buy one of those libraries of roylty free sounds.
- Did I see some of my taunts in there?
Yep.
Cool, I'll write more then.
- The article will turn many off with all the insider jokes. Get off the Codex speak if you go public like that, this is stuff you are doing for the people who do NOT come here.
Ok, dad. I'm sorry. I won't do it again.
Just don't do it again, son. I just think it would serve you better to communicate your enthusiasm for your game, your design, and not so much your frustration with the industry at large - especially if its written in a way that people who don't follow thses discussion can not really understand (even if they should actually agree with you!)

If you are making a new dodge animation, consider keeping the present one for a poor success of for a success with a low skill level. It looks good by itself, but like an instincive reaction more than a trained combat maneuver.

Another remark: Its funny, I am the real time guy around here, but I had no problem with the slow combat animations that so many noticed. Although I agree in retrospect, speeding it up a little is a good idea, a slider would be even better.
 

Claw

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
3,777
Location
The center of my world.
Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Paranoid Jack said:
Maybe making several speed variations to differentiate between the speed of the attacks?
Good point. I couldn't tell a difference between fast and normal attacks from the speed, really. It'd be nice if fast attacks were actually fast.


I know animations take a long time to do so making so many variations with the different weapons can eat a lot of time.
Eh, I always assumed one of the advantages of 3D was being able to animate the character regardless of equipment.
 

callehe

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
459
Location
Gothic Castle
listening to the music, it's a little too epic. The melody is good, but the epicness level should be toned down a bit.

The intro music before the combat was good though, really good.
 

Section8

Cipher
Joined
Oct 23, 2002
Messages
4,321
Location
Wardenclyffe
2)Characters should turn to face whoever is attacking them, unless facing plays a tactical role in the game.

I know a lot of people seem to want this, but please don't, and if you do, please don't animate it. I don't want to have to watch my character move around for a second every time someone attacks him.

We don't have them. Maybe yet, maybe at all.

You need sounds. Sounds make the world go 'round. I'd probably play a game with no text or graphics if it had sound direction from Eric Brosius. Now, I know you're not going to have sound work of that calibre, but you need something, otherwise you're halving the game's sensory output.

In fact, if you think my sample is up to speed, I'll gladly do some VO for ya, and might be able to manage some meaty slapping sounds, but no swordplay, please.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
2,878
Location
San Isidro, Argentina
Section8 said:
2)Characters should turn to face whoever is attacking them, unless facing plays a tactical role in the game.

I know a lot of people seem to want this, but please don't, and if you do, please don't animate it. I don't want to have to watch my character move around for a second every time someone attacks him.

I think that the ideal would be to have a different animation if you are attacked from the back or from the sides.

We don't have them. Maybe yet, maybe at all.

Section8 said:
You need sounds. Sounds make the world go 'round. I'd probably play a game with no text or graphics if it had sound direction from Eric Brosius. Now, I know you're not going to have sound work of that calibre, but you need something, otherwise you're halving the game's sensory output.

I agree with you :)
 

Sarvis

Erudite
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
5,050
Location
Buffalo, NY
Section8 said:
I know a lot of people seem to want this, but please don't, and if you do, please don't animate it. I don't want to have to watch my character move around for a second every time someone attacks him.

Agreed, actually.

Actually, just to throw an idea out: Maybe the character should try to keep himself at an angle to multiple attackers. For instance if one guy is in front and the other behind, the character would probably turn to keep them at his sides so he can attempt to see both.
 

Higher Game

Arcane
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
13,662
Location
Female Vagina
It looks bad as it is, seriously. Just because the combat is turn-based doesn't mean the actual characters should move slowly once the player has made up his mind: it should be the opposite! Besides being slow, the attacks don't look serious enough. They look slow and weak. At least aim for a Baldur's Gate level of intensity and animation quality, since it's what so many people are familiar with. And it needs some great sound effects, too, even though the music was good. Also, while the Fallout critical hits were taken too far, it looks like armor is far too powerful in this game.

Also, what was up with that 2 damage hit causing damage to vital organs? :lol: An appealing part of Fallout was that your character wasn't a demigod, which is what he looks like in AoD, at least in that sample video.

Still, since it doesn't have bloom, the next-gen idiots won't be getting it, and those who will probably wouldn't care if it had roguelike graphics. I'll be getting it regardless. Just focus on gameplay more than anything else, but speeding up the animations shouldn't take that long. Right?
 

Nick

Iron Tower Studio
Developer
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
317
Location
Over the hills and far away
Higher Game said:
Just focus on gameplay more than anything else, but speeding up the animations shouldn't take that long. Right?
As VD has already said, we'll tweak that.
 

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