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AoD demo discussion.

Silellak

Cipher
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Tucson, AZ
VD, can you explain how Impale for Spears will work? The other ones are self-explanatory, just curious about that one. Does it do something like lock both yourself and your opponent into place? Or something else entirely?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Fat Dragon said:
Vault Dweller said:
- Acid vials - thrown at armor, reduces DR, # points per turn based on the acid strength; the effect is permanent (duh!)
That reminds me, what other throwing weapons can you make with crafting? I remember a while back, poisons and black powder bombs were also mentioned. Are those still in, and what other things can you make?
Alchemy:

- healing salve
- berserker rage (accuracy - 50% penalty, max damage (the max value in the range))
- neurostimulant (reduce AP cost for 2 turns)
- poison (strength) - can coat weapons and ammo
- poison (potency) - # of turns
- antidote
- acid - handy for opening locks, removing metal bars blocking your way, and reducing opponents' armor to nothing
- liquid fire - can coat weapons and ammo, other creative uses
- liquid fire potency - # of turns
- black powder - blow things up, in combat and in-game (doors and such).

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... l#msg14168

Also, any chance you guys will add those special weapon attacks to the combat demo at some point?
Unlikely.

Silellak said:
VD, can you explain how Impale for Spears will work? The other ones are self-explanatory, just curious about that one. Does it do something like lock both yourself and your opponent into place? Or something else entirely?
You try to impale your opponent. If you succeed, he's impaled for 2 turns (really cool animation), being unable to do anything but sit on the ground with the spear in his stomach and look very miserably. You lose the spear and have to equip a different weapon, but it's very handy against multiple opponents. Impale one, kill the other, then finish off the first guy.
 

OSK

Arcane
Patron
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Jan 24, 2007
Messages
7,993
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sheek said:
So when is the fix to make this playable on ATI cards coming?

It plays on my 4850. Must just be shitty ATI cards.
 

Silellak

Cipher
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Tucson, AZ
Vault Dweller said:
Silellak said:
VD, can you explain how Impale for Spears will work? The other ones are self-explanatory, just curious about that one. Does it do something like lock both yourself and your opponent into place? Or something else entirely?
You try to impale your opponent. If you succeed, he's impaled for 2 turns (really cool animation), being unable to do anything but sit on the ground with the spear in his stomach and look very miserably. You lose the spear and have to equip a different weapon, but it's very handy against multiple opponents. Impale one, kill the other, then finish off the first guy.
Pretty cool. What's the to-hit % penalty for that move, and can you get your spear back once you kill the first guy?

I really appreciate the extra love you guys are giving spears and ranged combat (of all varieties), weapon types that are often ignored in fantasy-era RPGs.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Silellak said:
Pretty cool. What's the to-hit % penalty for that move, and can you get your spear back once you kill the first guy?
Yes, you can get your spear back after. To hit penalty is 20%, damage range - power attack, AP cost +2, requires passing a vsCritical check (otherwise it's an expensive power attack).

I really appreciate the extra love you guys are giving spears and ranged combat (of all varieties), weapon types that are often ignored in fantasy-era RPGs.
Thanks.
 

hal900x

Augur
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
573
Location
A good place to own a gun.
What strategy can you suggest for a 1h sword/blocker against the triarii? I can take down the leader without too much damage, but once I have the remaining two on me, it only takes a turn or two to grind down all of my 50 hp. I only have 8AP, so kiting didn't work out. Disarming means it's my only attack for the round, so it's just an inconvenience for one of them. Even when I switch to 2H it's not enough damage to kill either one of them before I'm dead. Same goes for called shots to the head or torso. All my skill points are divided between sword and block.

I'm broke, so an equipment change isn't an option, but I have a buckler, a tower shield, heavy armor and two swords, 1h and 2h available. Reequipping shield after the axe breaks it is pointless, it's broken again the following round, and with my tiny AP again it just prolongs the inevitable. In fact, that is the general theme of my attempts: no matter what strategies I come up with, the reality of my low APs means my demise. No combination of attacks, either focusing on one with any combination of attacks, has been successful. Whirlwind is pitifully small damage, not that I've managed to kill either one of them with focused attacks either. Kiting is a joke, even if I land a leg crippler, I only have 2 APs to move after that, meaning I'm only one square away after taking the "attacks of opportunity" on my zero-dodge self. Disarming means I did no damage that round, that's all. Disarm, then move the one square? They move too, and I've wasted my one attack. Stand and bang with regular attacks? Not enough kill power. Etc.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Not sure if you've seen this post before:
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... l#msg41015

Overall, you can beat them with different strategies. Some people try to split them or increase the chance of friendly fire. In that example above I've just charged the axeman, he split my shield, I didn't replace it, relying on my DR until I killed him, then I replaced my shield and killed the other two. If you split the skills between weapon and critical strike, you can rely on that, if you invested everything into one weapon skill, try aimed:head attacks.
 

tarkin

Augur
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
939
Wasteland 2
I would charge the axeman, attack only him and reequip the shield until you have only one left. After he dies equip the remaining shield, kill leader, kill hammer guy.

Easy to say but that is how i beat them with my axe+block build. Took me less than 10 tries of this tactic alone (tried many other unsuccesful approaches) and i didn't charge the guy (just waited until the combat mode started).


edit: VD was faster

fakeedit: when i actually beat them i lost 4 shields in a row with his first strike, so he also got a clear hit at me and the leader was crushing me with his scimitar. By the end i had like 5 HP, one hit from the hammer would finish me off but i got him with a lucky critical. Never surrender
salute.gif
 

hal900x

Augur
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
573
Location
A good place to own a gun.
Vault Dweller said:
Not sure if you've seen this post before:
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... l#msg41015

Overall, you can beat them with different strategies. Some people try to split them or increase the chance of friendly fire. In that example above I've just charged the axeman, he split my shield, I didn't replace it, relying on my DR until I killed him, then I replaced my shield and killed the other two. If you split the skills between weapon and critical strike, you can rely on that, if you invested everything into one weapon skill, try aimed:head attacks.

Are you reading my point about 8AP being the main problem, though? I tried your idea and it looked like it would work...if I had 10AP. I'm still getting cut down, though I exploited the axeman's pathing as much as possible, even getting his pal to throw axes into his back for 15 damage before engaging.
 

Melcar

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
35,205
Location
Merida, again
I got so frustrated with that fight that a bought a two handed hammer and proceeded to charge that axe dude and wail on him. I had a pretty high hammer score (180) so I was able to down him after a few aimed attacks to the head. I got lucky though because the first couple of rounds the other guys missed 50% of their hits and the others did not do that much damage.
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
If you can afford it, get that 5 AP meteor sword from the shop, that thing is ridiculously bad ass for a one hander.

Edit - Doh, broke. Definitely my favorite weapon for a sword/blocker though. All the expensive armor is a trap for someone that doesn't know all the bullshit in the demo, you really shouldn't buy any of it because even the butcher drops good heavily modded 8 DR 100 vsCD armor and it gets better from there.
 

hal900x

Augur
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
573
Location
A good place to own a gun.
Zomg said:
If you can afford it, get that 5 AP meteor sword from the shop, that thing is ridiculously bad ass for a one hander.

Edit - Doh, broke. Definitely my favorite weapon for a sword/blocker though. All the expensive armor is a trap for someone that doesn't know all the bullshit in the demo, you really shouldn't buy any of it because even the butcher drops good heavily modded 8 DR 100 vsCD armor and it gets better from there.

In the savegame I sent VD, I am not broke. In that save, I still have early armor and that weapon...chose offense over defense, as the next level of heavy armor is 3000g. Pretty much what you recommend.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Tough fight. Definitely took more than 4 tries. At first I tried charging the archer - didn't work. The gladius is too light for a strong and slow fighter like your character. He just doesn't do enough damage to last against 3 and once the shield is gone the leader switches to aimed:head attacks and it's all downhill from there. Tried charging the leader, same outcome.

Then I decided to fall back, which split them. The leader ended up charging me and didn't last long against my aimed attacks. It took 2 turns for his buddies to close the distance. I attacked the axeman, got lucky that my shield lasted a turn, switched to 2H sword I bought before the fight, killed the axeman quickly, equipped the shield and the gladius back, killed the hammer guy.


Divide and conquer.
 

hal900x

Augur
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
573
Location
A good place to own a gun.
Well I'm glad it was tough for you. I tried the exact same strategy, a lot, but I was never able to make it work for me. Even when I killed the leader first, the other two guys whittled me down. Although, I think the shield wasn't lasting at all when I tried that. Did you have to kite the group around very long in order to get two full turns alone with the leader? Or was it pretty soon?
 

Melcar

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
35,205
Location
Merida, again
In my game falling back does not split them up. Anyway, managed to finally beat the demo with a blocker. The axe guy was though, but it's understandable that a fucking heavy two handed axe would break your shield. VD, can't you make it so only the heavy axes split shields; getting that small axe and spamming fast attacks is ridiculous.
Oh, and on the final fight at the inn, half of the party seems to lay back and wait until their three buddies get killed (the Captain, crossbowman, and hammer dude). In the first release all of them would zerg rush me.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
I kept falling back for 2 turns (throwing accuracy goes down with range). The idea was to wait until they run out of throwing axes. The captain probably ran out first, since he was throwing them all the time. Then he charged me while his buddies took good positions for a throw, which removed them from me even farther.

The leader is deadly with his high damage weapon, high accuracy, and fondness of aimed: head attacks. Without him in the picture surviving without a shield is a lot easier and once the axeman is dead and your shield is back when it should be, it's almost smooth sailing.

I wonder how Oscar did it. It was really one of the hardest battles.
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
I was talking about the 5 AP one (the "handar"), not the 4 AP gladius. Slightly better than the gladius for normal combat with 8AP against guys in 8/9 DR armor I think and way, way better for counterattacks. Expensive as hell though. I've beaten that fight with a 10 AP sword/blocker completely without AI fuckery using that sword, albeit with above average luck with counterattacks and shield non-breakage.
 

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