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AoD dialogue screen

ichpokhudezh

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Messages
179
Location
germantown, md
Vault Dweller said:
The message window could be unlocked but it's kinda useless at this point as nothing would be reflected there during a dialogue session.
Is it too late to ask for dialogue trail?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
The journal is great. Detailed comments on areas, NPCs, quests, items, etc. As your understanding of those would grow, so would the comments.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Vault Dweller said:
No. Do many people review those?
I do. It'd be a useful feature for me, especially if the dialogue is complicated and well-written. Not essential, though.
 

Whipporowill

Erudite
Joined
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Messages
2,961
Location
59°19'03"N 018°02'15"E
A dialogue trail? Well, for one if you slip and get the wrong response or is a sloppy reader, which I might be late at night - you might be without a clue as to what you're actually getting a response for. It couldn't hurt now... could it?
 

Ismaul

Thought Criminal #3333
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Hey. I'm no longer here often because I moved and no longer have internet access, but anyways. The screen's great. Looks like the 3D is coming along well. I also agree about the uninspiring background, but overall it already looks so much better than the first dialogue screen.

My big gripe is the greyed-out bottom interface/toolbar (whatever you call it), especially the messages part. I see that people's descriptions are there, and I sometimes reference them when I talk to the NPC, especially if the info just showed up when I clicked on the NPC to talk to him. What about making this interface greyscale/desaturated instead of greyed-out? People would understand that functionality is gone, but the message screen would still be readable. Oh, and by the way, is there a way to scroll through the messages? That would be very useful.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Ismaul said:
Hey. I'm no longer here often because I moved and no longer have internet access, but anyways.
Hope you'll drop by every now and then, your criticism and suggestions were helpful, as you can see.

What about making this interface greyscale/desaturated instead of greyed-out?
Sure.

Oh, and by the way, is there a way to scroll through the messages? That would be very useful.
Certainly.
 

Atrokkus

Erudite
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Borat's Fantasy Land
I love the grass texture.

Textures own. Once you make a good, "natural" texture for character models, everything will look great.

So stick with 3d, of course.
 

Rulion

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
424
Location
bath salt city
Lancaster said:
Post more dialog screens, VD!
Definitely try to get more screens up, VD. As it is now, I like it a lot. To me, dialogue MAKES a game (which is why sometimes, when I'm bored, I boot up Zork) and the choices you have so far are fantastic. I like how you can even bring your Critical Strike skill into play!

I will say that I'm a little disappointed you guys decided to stick with 3D, though. I really loved the way your 2D guards looked, as iit had a rustic charm to it. As it is now it kinda reminds me of that Fate game, but I'd probably have to see more 3D screens to be sure. Even though this thread is more for dialogue and not graphics, I'd like it if you guys tried to make the characters look more...realistic. They look a little cartoony right now, which is a big jump from your serious-looking 2D screens. Either way, keep up the good work with that dialogue system!
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Rulion said:
Lancaster said:
Post more dialog screens, VD!
Definitely try to get more screens up, VD.
Sure, I'll post something later on today. I'm at work now, but I'll ask one of the guys to email me a few sequential shots.

As it is now, I like it a lot.
Thanks

I like how you can even bring your Critical Strike skill into play!
All stats & skills are used in dialogues. For example, when you intimidate someone, you can use either persuasion to threaten with words or [weapon skill] to threaten with skills without saying anything.

I will say that I'm a little disappointed you guys decided to stick with 3D, though.
I was disappointed too, but there are a lot of things we can do with 3D. The animations alone are worth the troubles.

I really loved the way your 2D guards looked, as iit had a rustic charm to it. ... I'd like it if you guys tried to make the characters look more...realistic. They look a little cartoony right now, which is a big jump from your serious-looking 2D screens.
Can you be more specific here? What would you improve?

Here is a better view
 

Human Shield

Augur
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
2,027
Location
VA, USA
The skin and face textures are poor, that is what makes them look like cartoons, instead of the good comic-book Fallout look like your 2D screens had.

Eyes and mouth look bad. Skins looks like plastic. Like paint on a lego piece.

Put artistic style in the world. Have their eyes be shadowed in, put textures on their hands.

There is no skin shading like you see in comics or real life, making them look plastic.

Shading, veins, muscles, bones, stylized face etc...

hawkman_endless.jpg


No shading, flat skin tone, plain face.

tinylegoman.jpg


Now take a look at the face and hands on your model.

And hands look too smooth and plastic and the face looks painted on (in a non-cool looking way).
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Human Shield said:
The skin and face textures are poor, that is what makes them look like cartoons, instead of the good comic-book Fallout look like your 2D screens had.

Eyes and mouth look bad. Skins looks like plastic. Like paint on a lego piece.
I doubt that the 2D characters would have looked that good if they were that size (5X). If the 3D model is reduced to 1/4 or 1/5 of the size shown (normal size for an isometric game), then eyes, mouth, and even skin, considering the armor, won't be visible. So, what are we talking about then?

Put artistic style in the world. Have their eyes be shadowed in, put textures on their hands.
Well, we can play with the faces.
 

NeutralMilkHotel

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Messages
389
Is the camera going to be in a fixed position (at least in zoom, not rotation)?

In any case, I think it's sufficiant as it is now, especially if it will be zoomed out enough. Personally, I'm more itching to see what you've come up with in terms of a city (or that 2D tavern pic location) where it should be more heavily populated than the 3D shot of some guys in a small forest.

edit: Also, the Axe is a sprite right? Does that look weird at all in combat? Also, the sprite looks like it might be a little too blue, maybe it should be a more silverish tint (though, I'm not much of an expert on weapons and color, so forgive my ignorance if it's that)?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
NeutralMilkHotel said:
Is the camera going to be in a fixed position (at least in zoom, not rotation)?
Dunno. It's not fixed now, although we can do it later. I'd prefer not to lock it though.

Personally, I'm more itching to see what you've come up with in terms of a city (or that 2D tavern pic location) where it should be more heavily populated than the 3D shot of some guys in a small forest.
A town screen would be posted in 2-3 weeks.

edit: Also, the Axe is a sprite right? Does that look weird at all in combat? Also, the sprite looks like it might be a little too blue, maybe it should be a more silverish tint (though, I'm not much of an expert on weapons and color, so forgive my ignorance if it's that)?
All weapons have been modelled separately. They look great in combat, and some animations like throwing a sword look great. The color will be fixed, we are working on better textures for the 4 metal groups.
 

Fryjar

Augur
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
176
I have a few suggestions for you:

1. I dont really like the background colour of the chat screen.In my opinion the "darker" brown which was used in P:Ts dialogues would be more fitting.

2. The characters names and their "speech" itself arent different enough and its a little bit hard to distinguish both of them at the first glance.Thus Id suggest to additionally alter their font.Personally I think that the "Monotype Corsiva" font in Word would look great for names and it would furthermore enhance the style of the game.


You really have to keep in mind that you neither have the time nor (assumably) the resources to model or display everything in the game perfectly. Common mistakes in todays games are that many programmers pay too much attention to tiny details that you`ll never see if you dont have the urge to zoom in all the time. But they forget that the fundamental and seemingly bland parts like for instance a good looking lawn texture are much more important since you will see it nearly throughout the entire game. Same goes for the text windows and their design especially in games that focus on well thought-out and long winding conversations.
To put it simply: It really enhances the "joy" that you have when you stay in them and read texts since it contributes to the immersion and atmosphere of your game world when the backgrounds and texts fit to it.
Alternatively you can forget about that and soil erosion gets the job done ;)....

3. When creating a realistic dark and gritty game world its very important to rely on darker colours instead of bright ones so keep that in mind when creating the game world.
Besides modelwise the models could use a different helmet. They should look straiter and rely more on an "edgy and spiky" design than on a round when.
Designwise I thought about sth. like that:
http://www.mtve.com/common/picture.php? ... ageId=1131

The "problem" with the heads and faces could be simply solved by making them thinner and as I said before darker and more shadowy (if technically possible)
 

Kamaz

Pahris Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Feb 16, 2004
Messages
1,035
Location
The Glorious Ancient City of Loja
Maybe it was suggested eralier, but I think that lower GUI part which is "inactive", should be alpha-darkened. I mean, you should use alpha for darkening it not grid. Grid was nice solution in 2D era, considering you stick with 3D API (Torque is 3D and I gather its OpenGL), it would be rather stupid not to use its potential. Alpha blending on 3d cards is much faster now.

That's of course, if you havent your own reasons why to stick with current "grid".
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Fryjar said:
I have a few suggestions for you...
I was away for a week, so I couldn't comment earlier. Thanks for the interest and suggestions though.

1. I dont really like the background colour of the chat screen.In my opinion the "darker" brown which was used in P:Ts dialogues would be more fitting.
It's unlikely that we'll change anything, but we'll take another look. As for what fits and what doesn't, we wanted something that looks like papyrus. Fits the period.

2. The characters names and their "speech" itself arent different enough and its a little bit hard to distinguish both of them at the first glance.Thus Id suggest to additionally alter their font.Personally I think that the "Monotype Corsiva" font in Word would look great for names and it would furthermore enhance the style of the game.
I don't mind replacing the font with something better, but I don't think that Corsiva is the one. Perhaps, Arial?

To put it simply: It really enhances the "joy" that you have when you stay in them and read texts since it contributes to the immersion and atmosphere of your game world when the backgrounds and texts fit to it.
True dat. However, we put a lot of thoughts in the interface and colors, and in my opinion, it works.

3. When creating a realistic dark and gritty game world its very important to rely on darker colours instead of bright ones so keep that in mind when creating the game world.
When creating realistic dark games, it's very important to create content that's actually realistic and dark. Darker colors can create some mood, but they don't make a game. Similarly, lighter colors don't break it.

Besides modelwise the models could use a different helmet. They should look straiter and rely more on an "edgy and spiky" design than on a round when.
Designwise I thought about sth. like that:
http://www.mtve.com/common/picture.php? ... ageId=1131
We have many different helmets. For all tastes and preferences, I hope.

Kamaz said:
Maybe it was suggested eralier, but I think that lower GUI part which is "inactive", should be alpha-darkened. I mean, you should use alpha for darkening it not grid. Grid was nice solution in 2D era, considering you stick with 3D API (Torque is 3D and I gather its OpenGL), it would be rather stupid not to use its potential. Alpha blending on 3d cards is much faster now.
Who gives a damn how it's darkened? No, really?
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
Colours, schmolours. How about a progress/status update for the new year, then hurry up and getonwiddit.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Status update? We're working on towns/buildings/interiors/etc. A huge, and hopefully positive, step from basic boxes, spiderweb-style, we've had in the 2D version. We are planning to post some screens by the end of the week.

We've added a number of "civilian" models (merchants, workers, nobles, etc) and a few armor sets based on the ancient historical pieces. We are working on a website which should be ready in about a month. We have registered a proper development company. That's about it.
 

Jora

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
1,115
Location
Finland
Vault Dweller said:
We are planning to post some screens by the end of the week.
And what a wonderful plan that is!

Hint: the week is ending soon.
 

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