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AoD forces you to play certain roles?

Andhaira

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SO I was reading over the actual play when I came across this:

If you play as a merchant, you'll start at the merchants guild and your first task will be to order an assassination of a recently arrived independent trader...

So umm. the game forces you to play as a murderous trader? Why the fuck can't I play as an honest trader who wants nothing to do with bloodshed? Thats just stupid.
 

Balor

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Ahem. So, you want to spend your life standing at the stall, selling fruits and whatnot?
Look in the tycoons section please.
 

Section8

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So umm. the game forces you to play as a murderous trader? Why the fuck can't I play as an honest trader who wants nothing to do with bloodshed? Thats just stupid.

The last "honest trader who wants nothing to do with bloodshed" was named Gracius. Guess what happened to him.
 

nowanmai

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Andhaira said:
SO I was reading over the actual play when I came across this:

If you play as a merchant, you'll start at the merchants guild and your first task will be to order an assassination of a recently arrived independent trader...

So umm. the game forces you to play as a murderous trader? Why the fuck can't I play as an honest trader who wants nothing to do with bloodshed? Thats just stupid.

I guess, it would be possible to just not do this quest. But, the idea, as I understand it, is that, you're from a merchant's guild, if you start out as a trader. And you must order the killing of an independent trader. Makes sense? If you're not with the guild, you're against it.
And, it's just that. Nothin' more is said - maybe you can turn on the guild and help the merchant. We just don't know yet.
Besides, did you actually read the Let's play or just started trolling randomly? You really don't make yourself look as a "slow, methodical thinker" you want to be.
 

cardtrick

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Andhaira said:
SO I was reading over the actual play when I came across this:

If you play as a merchant, you'll start at the merchants guild and your first task will be to order an assassination of a recently arrived independent trader...

So umm. the game forces you to play as a murderous trader? Why the fuck can't I play as an honest trader who wants nothing to do with bloodshed? Thats just stupid.

From http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php?topic=202.0:

cardtrick said:
There are no "classes" per se. Instead, the character has a role or a background: assassin, mercenary, knight, loremaster, thief, merchant, grifter, or none. This background does not affect your starting skills or stats. Nor does it in any way limit your character development. It merely provides a starting place.

In AoD, who you know and what they think of you is very important. The game tracks your reputation with various factions (see this screenshot), which has in-game consequences. Factions may help you with quests if you have a good reputation with them, or actively oppose you if they don't trust you.

Your chosen background has 2 major effects. The first is to set the starting values for your various reputations (a character with the merchant background will have a good reputation with the merchants guild, for example). The second effect is to determine how your game starts.

The beginning of AoD takes the form of a vignette. Unlike in TOEE, this is not determined by your alignment, but instead by your background. The vignettes all center around the same situation (a merchant has just arrived in town carrying an interesting map), but your role in that situation is determined by your background. A character with the mercenary background will begin the game as the merchant's guard. A character with the assassin background will begin the game in the assassins guild, being ordered to assassinate the merchant (see the recent Let's Play thread). These vignettes are relatively linear and serve as an introduction to the game, the world, and at least one faction. Moreover, they all end in roughly the same place -- with you in possession of the map.

So, to summarize: your chosen background determines how the game begins and what effect your character's personal history has had on his relationship with various local factions. It does not bind you to specific skills, factions, or paths through the game. It has lasting effects, in the form of reputation bonuses/costs and the somewhat different outcomes of the vignettes, but a character with any background can take any path through the game.
 

Ion Flux

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Andhaira

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@cardtrick: Yes I already know all that. Its besides thepoint.

Thingis, I want to play a merchant who is honest and fair; yes he is shrewd and canny but he is not a murderer either directly or indirectly.

I would have preferred if the merchant background allowed you use your financial rresources,contacts within the guild, shrewdness etc to actually DRIVE the rival merchant out of business!

That would be much better than simply starting the game and having to hire an assassin to kill him.

I hate plot devices liek this thatforce you to do something your character would never do.
 

bozia2012

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nowaiman said:
Besides, did you actually read the Let's play or just started trolling randomly? You really don't make yourself look as a "slow, methodical thinker" you want to be.

THIS! IS! ANDHAIRAAAAA!
 

Helton

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Seems I remember VD explaining the Merchant background and Merchant Guild as something different than you seem to expect. They were merchants before the Big Thing happened, now the Guild has become more like the mafia, if I understand it correctly.

You're a wise guy, not momandpop corner store owner.

Right?
 

Serious_Business

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Yes. There was a discussion as to why the merchant quests actually did not make you use your merchant skills that much, so the retard as half of a point. I don't remember where, or what was the conclusion, if any. Point is, go to the AoD forum if you don't want to have to deal with the retard. When wanting to look down on people and have big erections, this is the place
 

Section8

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Andhaira said:
@cardtrick: Yes I already know all that. Its besides thepoint.

Thingis, I want to play a merchant who is honest and fair; yes he is shrewd and canny but he is not a murderer either directly or indirectly.

I would have preferred if the merchant background allowed you use your financial rresources,contacts within the guild, shrewdness etc to actually DRIVE the rival merchant out of business!

That would be much better than simply starting the game and having to hire an assassin to kill him.

I hate plot devices liek this thatforce you to do something your character would never do.

You may have some grounds for argument in that your expectation of merchant differs from AoD's, but that'd be splitting hairs. You could make the argument "why does my assassin operate so overtly? when I picture assassins as being stealthy ninja types?"

At the end of the day, you're choosing a profession, and as such you're subject to the orders of your employer. If you don't want to be beholden to such whims, don't choose an employer. You can still create a character skilled as a merchant without being a part of the merchants guild.
 

elander_

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Section8 said:
At the end of the day, you're choosing a profession, and as such you're subject to the orders of your employer. If you don't want to be beholden to such whims, don't choose an employer. You can still create a character skilled as a merchant without being a part of the merchants guild.

What about the map the player needs to get from the merchant he murders. Some people say the player needs to get that map for the story to progress. That's why you are forced to do those quests if i understand correctly how it works.
 

Mech

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Hey look, someone isn't impressed with something in AoD and all the fanboys come out to flame him. Well done kids.
 

Mech

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Ivy Mike said:
Hey look, someone is drawing the wrong conclusions from the wrong facts. Well done kid.

Then maybe you should inform him instead of being a jackass? Oh I am sorry that would take effort.
 

Andhaira

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But see, picking most of the other professions leads to doing something directly RELaTED to that profession. For example when you select an assassin, you have to kill the merchy. No matter how you do it, the end result is the same and it makes ense because you are an ASSASSIN.

When you play a merc you are PAID to PROTECT the merchant. See, you are a MERCENARY, so it makes sense.

But when you pick a fucking MERCHANT, you are forced to hire an assassin to kill someone...that is NOT something a merchant does!!

It doesn't make sense. Heck, why can't the merchant just PAY the other merchant a TON of MONEY and BUY the map off him? That would make sense! It would also be diplomatic!
 

Section8

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When you play a merc you are PAID to PROTECT the merchant. See, you are a MERCENARY, so it makes sense.

That sounds more like a bodyguard than a mercenary. It makes just as much sense to be all - "baaaaaawwwww, I want my mercenary to kill people for money, not guard people for money! Mercenaries don't fit my very limited image of what a mercenary ought to be like!"

But when you pick a fucking MERCHANT, you are forced to hire an assassin to kill someone...that is NOT something a merchant does!!

It's something the merchant's guild does, and as a professional member of said organisation, you can't say to your superiors "you're doing it wrong". Besides, present day merchants run with the same aggressive tactics and a bit less death. Walmart et al didn't get to where they are now by playing nice.

It doesn't make sense. Heck, why can't the merchant just PAY the other merchant a TON of MONEY and BUY the map off him? That would make sense! It would also be diplomatic!

Who gives a fuck about the map? The situation is all about getting rid of competition and demonstrating the might of the merchant's guild. What message would the guild be sending if it paid good money for useless junk from any independent trader who dares to show his face in town?

I think you need to open your mind and accept that Fallout has diplomats that either run away or keep company that can fight, and that the merchants in AoD aren't nice guys out to make an honest living.
 

somnium

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Mech said:
Ivy Mike said:
Hey look, someone is drawing the wrong conclusions from the wrong facts. Well done kid.

Then maybe you should inform him instead of being a jackass? Oh I am sorry that would take effort.
Or perhaps he is just trolling, considering his posting history.
 

Andhaira

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"Who gives a fuck about the map?"

You really need to read over the actual play etc. The ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of the vigniette is to get the MAP. Thats how you begin the game. You cannot do otherwise.

As amerchant (who buys and sells stuff) it would make sense to actually purchase said map. Instead the game is forcing you to play a role contrary to one chosen.

That is stupid and dumb. Someone neds to teach 'em how to implement ROLE in roleplaying and also how to implement choices and non-linearity.
 

galsiah

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Andhaira said:
...that is NOT something a merchant does!!
It is something members of the merchants' guild in the world of AoD do. You only remotely have a point if the merchant background isn't suitably explained before you pick it - i.e. that it means belonging to the guild, and that the guild means business.

Also, playing an every-so-nice trading guy who operates outside the guild might be naturally impossible in such a world. Operating outside the guild means that the guild will be out to get you. Once you run out of huge bribes, and come across someone who won't be won over by a winning smile, you're going to end up dead unless you take some violent action (perhaps indirectly).

It doesn't make sense. Heck, why can't the merchant just PAY the other merchant a TON of MONEY and BUY the map off him? That would make sense! It would also be diplomatic!
I do hope you're trolling.
(1) The merchant isn't looking for the map.
(2) Paying someone a ton of money for a potentially worthless object is not what skilled merchants do.
(3) Paying someone a ton of money for a potentially worthless object is not "diplomatic".


The only way any of this doesn't make sense is if you've decided to play Generic-Fantasy-Character-#583 before you even see the game setting/world. The game world isn't generic fantasy, so there's no reason you should expect to be able to play a character which doesn't make sense within the context. If the backgrounds and setting aren't suitably explained at the outset, you have a small point. It needs to be made clear what sort of world the player is in, and what sort of history/role a background entails.
So long as that's done, whatever groundless preconceptions you have over what a merchant should be doing aren't relevant.


Mech said:
Then maybe you should inform him instead of being a jackass? Oh I am sorry that would take effort.
Effort that will almost certainly go to waste I'm afraid. Andhaira has hardly covered himself in glory in the good-sense and ability-to-listen-and-understand areas.
To anyone trying to understand, Section8's first post is a reasonable explanation: the kind of merchants Andhaira is picturing simply end up dead. Choosing an "independent, open, honest merchant" background would amount to choosing to have suffered a grim death a few years back. It's hardly surprising that such a background isn't supported.

Andhaira should make the effort to understand something about the game setting/world backgrounds. Until he has, why do you expect that he'll start to listen to, and understand, posts which make "effort" to explain things? If he's not willing to read about the context, he's not going to understand it.
 

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