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AoD: What do you think of TEH GRAFIKS?

What do you think of the graphics?

  • I can't play a game that looks so awful (1/10)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The graphics are bad, but I've seen worse (3/10)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The graphics are ok (5/10)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I can't explain it but I actually like the graphics (7/10)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

protobob

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Messages
332
Location
USA
I'm more worried that the UI might be tedious and annoying than I am of any 'teh graphix' issue.
 

Mr.Rocco

Novice
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
65
whatusername said:
The graphics aren't bad, but they aren't that good either. But they just work. It's sort of like Geneforge.

I wouldn't say it's as bad as Geneforge. Still, it doesn't look impressive. Most people probably think it's just another hobby-basement-amateur effort when they see the screenshots. That's too bad since the premise and the deveopment so far seems to be very promising. Graphicwise, I'll give 2-3 out of 10(7).
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Mr.Rocco said:
Most people probably think it's just another hobby-basement-amateur effort when they see the screenshots.
Isn't it?

copx said:
If Oblivion is a 10 where is Arcanum on your scale?
7 overall, 5 for animations.

Because Arcanum looks a hell lot better than AoD.
Have I claimed otherwise?

I hope you have no plans to make this an "exploration RPG", though.
None whatsoever.

metallix said:
...change the asssassin concept. NOt only it looks trite, but it's actually rather, well, unrealistic -- he wont make a good assassin if his outfit is practically SCREAMING "HAY IM ASSASSIN PHEAR ME". Make him wear plain clothes - something that would conceal his face and at the same time woulnd't look too suspicious -- maybe a scarf, or a kerchief
It's just "armor". Not all assassins wear it, and not everyone who wears it is an assassin.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
1,585
Location
Galway
If its a toss up between you adding in one more side quest or putting cracks in the walls, I'd rather have the side quest please.
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,659
Location
Cydonia
I voted for "bad but seen worse" (3/10) but I should have voted "they're OK" (5/10).

I would say they're slightly better than Arcanum. I thought Arcanum's graphics were just below average.
 

Amasius

Augur
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
959
Location
Thanatos
Whats the point of this poll? You probably won't sell a single copy because of the grafics so don't put to much effort better used elsewere into them. I would never say that AoD looks better than Arcanum, but it looks much better than Spiderweb-games and how long is Jeff Vogel in the business? The Oblivion-Fanboys will bash the grafics of AoD anyway but who cares.
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,659
Location
Cydonia
Amasius said:
Whats the point of this poll? You probably won't sell a single copy because of the grafics so don't put to much effort better used elsewere into them. I would never say that AoD looks better than Arcanum, but it looks much better than Spiderweb-games and how long is Jeff Vogel in the business? The Oblivion-Fanboys will bash the grafics of AoD anyway but who cares.

That's not true. I have seen comments about AoD and I think most people are being reasonable. The average gamer will say the graphics aren't great but can be made up for with gameplay. A small improvement in graphics would make a slight difference in reception. How much? Enough to justify spending time on them (instead of eg more quests)? I don't know. But saying the game will only interest "hard-core/old-skool" RPGers who don't care about graphics is false.

My opinion anyway.

Of course it is true some people will bash AoD anyway. Like some people will praise it even if it turns out a load of shit. In both cases they're small numbers. If you're looking at making big sales (10k, 20k +) you should act like those groups are irrelevant.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
I selected 3, although 4 would be more like it. Technically they are more then adequate for an indie game with the intended focus. And the models themselves are actually pretty good. However, I feel the graphics somehow fail to transport atmosphere, something which is less due to technical aspects but with how the whole thing comes together - there is a certain cleanness and brightness to the screens that to me seems somewhat at odds with the world and settings you describe.
 

Sitra Achara

Arcane
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
1,859
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I'll echo most of what's said here:

-Character models look good (7 or 8 even, depending on animation). Outdoor shadows looked nice in the last screenshot.

-Environment is about 4 or 5 - more detail and style would improve it greatly. I guess fancy lighting could also help in some situations - at night, dusk, or indoors/underground/temples/facilities, but I don't see how it'd help specifically in those screenshots. Also IIRC there was a screenshot showing a palace that looked better, around 6-7 IMO, so it's not all bad I guess.

-Convenient interface is ten times more important (it's what put me off PtD, actually, along with the crashes).

-Codex guys would buy it even with ASCII graphics anyway.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Amasius said:
Whats the point of this poll?
Didn't I answered that somewhere above? To see what people here (aka potential customers) think of the graphics. We've been tweaking the graphics for a long time (compare the RPG Vault interview screens to the 4 posted above to see the difference). I'd like to know whether it was a wasted effort (and we should stop wasting time on graphics since they suck anyway) or not, in which case we continue tweaking (which won't magically turn the existing graphics into something awesome & artistsic, btw).
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
GhanBuriGhan said:
However, I feel the graphics somehow fail to transport atmosphere, something which is less due to technical aspects but with how the whole thing comes together - there is a certain cleanness and brightness to the screens that to me seems somewhat at odds with the world and settings you describe.
What would you suggest? As detailed as possible, please.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
If I can move the camera so that I see more of what's lying ahead of the PC - I don't mind the graphics.
 

Fryjar

Augur
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
176
Although I think that the graphics itself are ok, there are a few ways to convey style.
The most efficient one, and that was the way the Fallouts worked, is to establish a distinctive style. Right now it looks more like a common ancient world. But if you would docorate for instance the walls of the buildings with your own unique game art (simple textures) then this aim could be accomplished. But honestly, I think that this would consume too much time.
 

Amasius

Augur
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
959
Location
Thanatos
sheek said:
The average gamer will say the graphics aren't great but can be made up for with gameplay.
The average gamer will probably never hear of AoD - not enough hype.

GhanBuriGhan said:
I feel the graphics somehow fail to transport atmosphere
I agree, but hopefully AoD can generate atmosphere through the writing of the dialogues, descriptions etc.

VD, I've got the impression that you are a bit unsettled because some people criticize the graphics (and the writing of some dialogues) of AoD, but you can't satisfy everybody. Be ready for a shitstorm after the release of AoD - and (hopefully) for some grateful praise by the audience you are aiming for. Sure, you and your Team should try to improve the game in every aspect as much as you can, but only with an reasonable amount of effort. I think it's much more important do kill bugs than to improve the graphics.
 

xedoc gpr

Scholar
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
496
I voted bad, but seen worse. They look pretty bland, but I guess they're functional. To tell you the truth I would prefer 2d graphics with some style instead of generic 3d graphics. Just my opinion. It's not like I care about graphics in this game anyways.
 

Cycloptis

Scholar
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
127
Location
Dead
Lighting could be better, but I'm more intrigued to see how the level and sound design is. If there are majestic structures with beautiful (or plausible) design, and sounds of crowds in the background, then technicalities are worthless to me.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Amasius said:
VD, I've got the impression that you are a bit unsettled because some people criticize the graphics (and the writing of some dialogues) of AoD, but you can't satisfy everybody.
Well, it would be unwise to ignore criticism, would it not? I don't expect everyone to like the game, but trying to appeal to everyone and trying to fix obvious flaws are two different things.
 

Immortality

Novice
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
11
Location
The Deep Seas.
Voted that the graphics are ok.

I see you make shadows, and thats okay, but the shadows of the objects, NPCs in themselves are failing.

You see, an object cast a shadow on the ground, and you have accomplished that. But objects also have and casts shadows on themselves. To put it in plain words (english is not my native language), a head or arm or leg cast a shadow over the body itself.

In this pictures you cant see the objects casting shadows over themselves, and this all makes it a bit unrealistic.

I am also guessing that the "atmosphere" that was described in other posts can be the result of the light/shadow setting (cant find the words, im sorry), and ill try to explain myself as best as i can... You have a room, and you have objects casting a shadow on the floor. However... where does the light come from? all the room has the same light all over, how can an object cast a shadow when all the room is lit in the same way? There are no shadows on the corners, for example.

Maybe you can try (ouch!) to play with lights/shadows on a different way. Instead of adding the shadows, try and add lights. Start with a very dark room. Then add a lamp and see how the light from that lamp would hit every object, how theyd cast a shadow over themselves and other objects.

Now ill try to illustrate... uhm... it can take some hours, but ill try to get a screenshot of yours and play with it in photoshop, so maybe you can see clearly what i mean :/




EDIT: this is all a suggestion, i KNOW thats a very, very, very hard thing to do, so consider this only as an idea or illustration. :)
 

Vidder

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
102
definitely try to tweak the lightning (i dont know what possibilities you have within torque)
maybe its sufficient to tone down the overall (ambient) lightning and emphasize single light sources like torches, fireplaces or simulated sunpositions.

is it possible to add negative lightning for dark corners etc. with torque? that could help.


btw: i voted 5 (ok graphics) because i like nearly all the models. the only thing which looks bad are inhouse walls, but i think this is a texture problem: they look too realistic and too "crude" somehow.
 

Immortality

Novice
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
11
Location
The Deep Seas.
Ok, as promised, to explain myself better here it is the illustration:

This is your screenshot: http://www.irontowerstudio.com/images/4a.jpg
And this is my edit: http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/5434/4a1zv6.jpg

I did it in photoshop (bet you wish making the game was so easy :/) but basically i made the room darker. Then added shadows to the 4 corners of the picture, added shadows to the parts of the house that needed shadows (under the roof, specially, that was in dire need of shadows) and then added shadows to the people themselves.

Ehm... well... hope it helps, even though at this point of development it could be a pain to make somehting like that... :? sorry :?
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Vault Dweller said:
GhanBuriGhan said:
However, I feel the graphics somehow fail to transport atmosphere, something which is less due to technical aspects but with how the whole thing comes together - there is a certain cleanness and brightness to the screens that to me seems somewhat at odds with the world and settings you describe.
What would you suggest? As detailed as possible, please.

OK, I'll try to suggest things that I think might be within the reach of your engine, from what I picked up in the discussion so far, but much of this may be too much work or not possible with your engine. So it's really just a selection of ideas, roughly in order of importance:

- More variation in textures (especially in Walls / Floors) with minor irregularities, dirt, cracks, spots, discoloration. It should look older, more used, a little run down. A few places maybe not, create contrast.
- If possible, some kind of indoor lighting / shadowing, to create more dramatic interiors. Some dark light contrast. Chiaroscuro. Something simple like discussed by EvoG elsewhere would do.
- Slightly more clutter, especially outdoors (debris, rubble, broken boxes, tools, etc.). If you can do decals, those could go a long way for dirt smudges, spiderwebs, blood stains, the works.
- Use ambient sound to supplement visuals (something I can't judge from the screens, but IMHO the sound and music are at least as important as the visuals). I'd imagine you'd want lost of whistling wind, distant noise of human activity, etc.
- Slightly lower overall light level (or variable light level to suggest weather changes?). Plus a little more color saturation.
- Some animated models / textures: buzzing flies, blowing dirt, flowing fountains, scuttling mice. Good idle animations for your NPC's. This can distract from plain textures and enliven the scene.
 

bozia2012

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
3,309
Location
Amigara Fault
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shit 2D gfx > shit3D gfx (voted 3/10) - if a game has some good ideas, flaws ain't shit.

I must've missed something, but why do you make 3D grafx? Is it paradoxically easier? I'd rather play a game with Darksun-like 320x200x8bit graphics (Fallout/Arcanum/IE gfx would be too much :)). In most cases 2D games have this natural "detailed" look and like almost everyone said before AoD is too sterile :) You know in ancient times, pixelated 2D graphics left much room for imagination and 3D high-res gfx are just what they are (here: wooden toys).

Anywayz, when can I pre-order?
 

mlc82

Scholar
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
125
The graphics look fine to me, it's the gameplay that matter and this one so far sounds like a winner to me. In this day and age of the "Britney Spears" game industry (All the effort goes toward appearance with no depth whatsoever- and it's just going to look like crap in 5 years when something better comes along anyway), an RPG that harkens back to games' "Golden Era" will be really refreshing.
 

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