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Incline ArcSys saving fighting games with Dragon Ball FighterZ

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Prophet
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"easy combo" control where you can spam button to looks cool.

DBZF nails this imo, the auto stuff is nothing to scoff at but there is a shit-ton of room for execution and creativity. Then look at sfv that's just shit for everyone.

Capcom:
10035524.gif


ASW:
paslode_018606.jpg
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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I'd say the most casual-friendly element, as in one that makes it very easy for people not well-versed in fighting games to pick up and play (and again, this is not an all bad thing since it makes it easier to convince random friends to try it out; compared to say KoF XIII with a notably higher learning curve), is that it uses by far the most uniform move inputs I can recall. Haven't seen a single half-circle or hold input yet. The basics to control a character remain the by and large the same, quarter-circle forward or back with punch buttons for close range special moves and with blast for long range projectile type specials, and double buttons for supers; with only few deviations from this like Frieza's teleport attack special. Instead it uses the uniform inputs and relatively low number of specials to throw more curveballs, like Piccolo having stretching arms instead of normal blasts or Captain Ginyu calling up his posse to make attacks.

Also of note with the easy combo system I think is the way when you get the hang of it you realize it actually works kind of like Revolver Combo from BlazBlue (specifically Revolver rather than Gatling because of the way button combo order is laid out).
 
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DakaSha V

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I'd say the most casual-friendly element, as in one that makes it very easy for people not well-versed in fighting games to pick up and play (and again, this is not an all bad thing since it makes it easier to convince random friends to try it out; compared to say KoF XIII with a notably higher learning curve), is that it uses by far the most uniform move inputs I can recall. Haven't seen a single half-circle or hold input yet. The basics to control a character remain the by and large the same, quarter-circle forward or back with punch buttons for close range special moves and with blast for long range projectile type specials, and double buttons for supers; with only few deviations from this like Frieza's teleport attack special. Instead it uses the uniform inputs and relatively low number of specials to throw more curveballs, like Piccolo having stretching arms instead of normal blasts or Captain Ginyu calling up his posse to make attacks.

Also of note with the easy combo system I think is the way when you get the hang of it you realize it actually works kind of like Revolver Combo from BlazBlue (specifically Revolver rather than Gatling because of the way button combo order is laid out).

For the record you can call in lvl 3 assists using hcb inputs.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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I'd say the most casual-friendly element, as in one that makes it very easy for people not well-versed in fighting games to pick up and play (and again, this is not an all bad thing since it makes it easier to convince random friends to try it out; compared to say KoF XIII with a notably higher learning curve), is that it uses by far the most uniform move inputs I can recall. Haven't seen a single half-circle or hold input yet. The basics to control a character remain the by and large the same, quarter-circle forward or back with punch buttons for close range special moves and with blast for long range projectile type specials, and double buttons for supers; with only few deviations from this like Frieza's teleport attack special. Instead it uses the uniform inputs and relatively low number of specials to throw more curveballs, like Piccolo having stretching arms instead of normal blasts or Captain Ginyu calling up his posse to make attacks.

Also of note with the easy combo system I think is the way when you get the hang of it you realize it actually works kind of like Revolver Combo from BlazBlue (specifically Revolver rather than Gatling because of the way button combo order is laid out).

For the record you can call in lvl 3 assists using hcb inputs.
Oh I didn't know that, neat. So far when it comes to super assist tags I've just figured out the moves maintain all their properties so if you say go for double tag with supers and the first one to jump in is Piccolo you can charge up Special Beam Cannon and only after it finishes the third guy will tag in with their super, which is kind of interesting.
 

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so it's a good game with disastrous multiplayer?
still 60+35 euros + denuvo. no way.
The multiplayer is absolutely fine. I have no clue why some people are bitching about it. Yes 95 is a bit steep, but completely worth it as far as I'm concerned. Denuvo doesn't matter for shit. At all. Game runs fine on my 5 year old toaster and if you are looking to pirate from a company like ASW you are simply a piece of shit.
 
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DakaSha V

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I'd say the most casual-friendly element, as in one that makes it very easy for people not well-versed in fighting games to pick up and play (and again, this is not an all bad thing since it makes it easier to convince random friends to try it out; compared to say KoF XIII with a notably higher learning curve), is that it uses by far the most uniform move inputs I can recall. Haven't seen a single half-circle or hold input yet. The basics to control a character remain the by and large the same, quarter-circle forward or back with punch buttons for close range special moves and with blast for long range projectile type specials, and double buttons for supers; with only few deviations from this like Frieza's teleport attack special. Instead it uses the uniform inputs and relatively low number of specials to throw more curveballs, like Piccolo having stretching arms instead of normal blasts or Captain Ginyu calling up his posse to make attacks.

Also of note with the easy combo system I think is the way when you get the hang of it you realize it actually works kind of like Revolver Combo from BlazBlue (specifically Revolver rather than Gatling because of the way button combo order is laid out).

For the record you can call in lvl 3 assists using hcb inputs.
Oh I didn't know that, neat. So far when it comes to super assist tags I've just figured out the moves maintain all their properties so if you say go for double tag with supers and the first one to jump in is Piccolo you can charge up Special Beam Cannon and only after it finishes the third guy will tag in with their super, which is kind of interesting.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rrh_EWca6MB1WUZfjIZ97LYhYspshivHjM352KmZ4g4/edit

There is more going on than is immediately apparent
 
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DakaSha V

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By the way are there any bros playing this in the North America/Mexico, West Coast region?
 

Gepeu

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I'm having a ton of fun with this game. It's straightforward, intuitive, auto combos are nice, but there's a ton of things to do for yourself. Every character feels different. Even getting beaten online is enjoyable, because you can tell what went wrong for you. Also, production values are simply insane. The game looks and feels just incredible.
 

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game's great, it's marvel 3 without some of the really stupid shit. game can still be broke in a matter of months though, but arcsys is very good when it comes to balancing.
 
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DakaSha V

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I cant imagine the game not being broken fairly soon, once people figure some shit out.


and arcsys only balances when they sell the next version, dont they?
 

InD_ImaginE

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arcsys is very good when it comes to balancing.
"everything crazy = everything balanced"
The best kind of balance imo.

Eh if you see Blazblue competitive scene, out of 36 (I think?) only maybe 10 or less are competitive (unless you are that one guy that I always saw running Ragna and actually winning). Design wise they are cool, but like every other fighting game there is a clear tier list.
 
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DakaSha V

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arcsys is very good when it comes to balancing.
"everything crazy = everything balanced"
The best kind of balance imo.

Eh if you see Blazblue competitive scene, out of 36 (I think?) only maybe 10 or less are competitive (unless you are that one guy that I always saw running Ragna and actually winning). Design wise they are cool, but like every other fighting game there is a clear tier list.

Killer Instinct does not have a clear tier list, and its the epitome of "everybody is overpowered" balancing.

In any case, imbalance in this game is likely to come from overlooked tech/assist combinations. id be really surprised if the game is considered even decently balanced after a few months. But I can hope.


Game still kicking ass btw
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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and arcsys only balances when they sell the next version, dont they?
Varies a bit, but in general one can expect that major changes only happen in version changes. Actual patches I think tend to just have minor tweaks (IIRC one of the Central Fiction patches for example made a minor raise to the damage value of some moves) and bugfixing.

arcsys is very good when it comes to balancing.
"everything crazy = everything balanced"
The best kind of balance imo.

Eh if you see Blazblue competitive scene, out of 36 (I think?) only maybe 10 or less are competitive (unless you are that one guy that I always saw running Ragna and actually winning). Design wise they are cool, but like every other fighting game there is a clear tier list.
Competetive scene tier lists sort of fly over the heads of regular people anyway, since I'd say even among the dedicated fighting game crowd most people don't have the level of innate manual dexterity to be able to reach even the lowest echelons of tournament gaming due to how insane the level of play gets. Personally I doubt I'd measure up even to the lowest of the low when it comes to higher end play, my fingers are too clumsy and slow and my reflexes nowhere near fast enough. But anyway, my point was really that tier lists are something that make full sense only to the very top class of players in any given fighting game (ie, I can't personally grasp them anywhere outside of abstract theory since I can't play anywhere near that level where those differences begin to matter).

And yea 36 in Central Fiction.
 

Damned Registrations

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Eh, tier lists are applicable to newbies as well, it's just an entirely different list. This is why people bitch about noob weapons/characters letting idiots be way more effective than they would be with a random selection instead.

I'll echo the sentiment though that assists are a big potential source of trouble here, I'd honestly be surprised if there weren't at least one really broken combo that lets you do some OP juggle or an attack that is basically impossible to defend against.
 

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i'm not sure we'll see x amount of new versions of DBZF because of possible licensing issues. they could go the SFV route and make it a seasonal content platform or whatever the fuck. unlike SFV, this game is great though, so it'll beat it as a platform too
 
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DakaSha V

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Havent watched the whole thing yet, but he is indirectly showing how the games meta will likely evolve into less mashing, based purely on the way the neutral game will likely work once people catch on to how youre "supposed to play".

Im looking forward to how 4S will end up working out (if at all)

edit: also before dumbfucks chime in, fast gameplay and constant action has nothing to do with mashing
 
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I can already see the meta developing into insane corner pressure, but I dont think that's particularly unusual for arcsys stuff.

Game is a ton of fun so far although I'm much more prone to dropping combos and doing dumb mashing in heat of the moment than I am in other games. One thing that bugs me is that forward + assist tags someone in, so I accidentally swap in an undesired character rather than approach with an assist. Hitting diagonal + forward works, but I have my doubts that this will ever be an unconscious action on my part. Also not sure if I'll ever be able to do box-jumps reliably.

Been running Trunks / Goku / Freiza or Goku / Vegeta / Freiza so far. So far I'm really liking Freiza as an anchor, although we'll see how long that last. At least in the first week I've run it back many, many times with him. I love that his qcf special can beat out airdash attacks. People who spam those can get extremely annoying, even with the knowledge that launchers beat them clean it can be hard to react.
 
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DakaSha V

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I can already see the meta developing into insane corner pressure, but I dont think that's particularly unusual for arcsys stuff.

I think its possible to use 4S to get out of corner pressure fairly reliably, but i keep forgetting to test it in the heat of a match
 

InD_ImaginE

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Welll yeah, my point on balance was more on the competitive side instead of us plebs playing fighting game. For us plebs everything would probably good enough.
 

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like every other fighting game there is a clear tier list.
Sure, unavoidable. But take pot for example in Xrd, he's bad against the field (except slayer/maybe Ky) but can still get crazy one counterhit into death near the corner for example. Top tier? Not even close. Crazy? Yup.
 
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DakaSha V

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I spent some time getting the jump cancel combos down. it dramatically changed the feel of the game (for the better). Makes characters i hadnt thought of playing feel better, and also acts as a distinguishing feature between the characters in general. Not everybody can even jump cancel off of 2M -> 5M, and some cant 2H smash while in the air (freeza for instance).

good gaem
 

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