Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Incline ArcSys saving fighting games with Dragon Ball FighterZ

RoBoBOBR

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
695
It's all about the degree of the reduction IMO. If they get rid of danger time and blitz charge for example, plus get all the wake-up timings homogenized - game would be quite more welcoming for the newcomers, while remaining deep enough for experienced players to stay.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Another probable example would be to trim the number of parallel mechanics like different types of roman cancel and burst.

I mean, the main gist of what Ishiwatari says in the full interview is really that developing a game is a learning process and you have to aim higher and a part of that is figuring out how to make things more profitable too, or at least as profitable as the last entry.
 

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
5,365
Pathfinder: Wrath
Well, DB Fighterz was said to be selling well due to simpler system.

I said it sells because it actually is motherfucking Dragon Ball, and ArcSys name as good fighting game developer helps it even more.

GG is obscure to non fighting game enthusiast. Arguably Blaz Blue is more well known due to younger gamers being exposed to it more, not because GG is too complex.

Oh well when they do release it and it fell off competitive and casual scene in 6 moths after release they will realize that this is a mistake.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Oh well when they do release it and it fell off competitive and casual scene in 6 moths after release they will realize that this is a mistake.
I highly doubt tournament royalties are enough to keep a fighting game company afloat, or the warm feelings of having a devoted fanbase years later probably won't do much for the cashflow needed. Somehow I also don't trust that there's much money to be had in sales after that six month mark, you need a re-release version after that I'd figure.

If anything, I generally worry that the whole online component will incur additional costs that fighting games don't need to deal with as a niche genre (then again, I'm fairly staunch fundamentalist about only versus on the same sofa is acceptable form of versus).


To me I'd expect that Ishiwatari wouldn't be saying something like this if they weren't just barely breaking even selling multiple DLCs per game and doing re-release versions of their games (it'd probably be interesting to look at actual figures of how ArcSys games work out for them). That's again just something I have a feeling is just a reality with the niche genre and being a niche part even within it. I buy my overpriced collector's editions for the simple reason that I want ArcSys to make more games, but evenso I do not exactly trust the FGC to put enough money down on the table to show their appreciation.

EDIT: And yea FighterZ's biggest card for making its sales is the license, little doubt about that. But it's not the only card I figure.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
Location
Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
They should do Idolmaster Fighting Game next.
 

Nathir

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
1,090
After almost 150 hrs put into this game, I do think it's fun and has a solid core but overall it is poorly designed and the balance patch can't come soon enough.

First, it feels rushed. Yeah it looks amazing, but the whole lobby/ranked systems feel halfway done with many non-sensical decisions. One example are the squares. Why are they visible? I keep getting insta-declines, even from pink squares, just because I have a red square. The combo challenges are lame and super easy.

As far as gameplay goes super dash is the scrubbiest mechanic to ever be put in a fg. Full screen tracking dash, that rotates you 180 degrees in a second, beats out most normals and randomly switches sides? Yeah 2h is a counter, but only on the ground, if you jump your opponent can easily come to you. Vanish being + on block is dumb. Let me just spend 1 bar, which is nothing in this game, to reset my pressure or teleport to you for free.

Every character plays the same. There is almost no variation in combos across the cast. Damage is also very standardized across the board and scaling too. Starting with a crouching medium is the best starter damage-wise for everyone. Which shouldn't be the case as a character like Cell has an insane crouching medium that will hit easier then a trash c.m. from Yamcha. Super meter builds very fast. Having it available for constant vanishes or specials at end of strings is a non-issue. 2h is a universal anti-air for everyone and it's very easy to anti air people with it, as it was designed to counter super dash, further homogenizing the cast. Characters all seem to play the same, some are just straight up superior versions of others.

Vegeta assist. I have no problem with strong assists, but this assist is the only one that is so good. It's like a mini hellzone grenade. It keeps them locked down, has a good angle, is easy to convert of and obscures vision with smoke. No other assist is even remotely close. Vegeta is also one of the only three characters with a dp... No wonder he's in every top team.

Auto combos are way too fast and for some reason have tracking... This is not an uncommon thing to happen in a game: I jump over an opponent who presses buttons. His character moves forward and I think I can punish him, but he instantly turns around and does the next hit in the string and hits me. Go into training an choose Bardock. Look at the distance he travels if you just spam l, and how fast he changes animations. It's terrible and promotes mashing. I have never seen so many people in a fg who mash light. Even on wakeup.

Anyway, it's still a fast and fun game but it just gets kind of stale. I was watching top 8 of a japanese tourney this morning and almost everyone was playing the same characters. Doing the same combos over and over again with all of them. It's not a problem for anyone to do 60-70% dmg combos. I also find it funny how all the saiyans are basically very easy to play and most of them are high or top tier. They also all seem to have a sliding crouching medium that has quite a bit of range and is fast. Then you look at the humans and they all have slow ones, that keep them almost in the same place. And then I remember an interview where the producer basically said ''of course we will take power levels into account'' and realize japs are retarded like that.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
3,919
Location
Nedderlent
After almost 150 hrs put into this game
Gotta remember the game was made with mashing in mind, your little brother and his mashing friends want to see flashy shit happen while raping their controllers. It is what it is. Fun for casual gameplay. On higher levels the game is broken, sure, but that's not it's job.
You want to play a "real" fighter, come play Xrd+M
 
Last edited:

Nathir

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
1,090
I do play GG, or I used to before DBFZ. I'm a huge ArcSys fan and this game just has potential for so much more. Recently I've been getting back into GG though, but I'm super rusty. I see the new patch changed Zato's combo 9. That one was my favourite to do, and Great White still sucks anyway :negative:.
 
Self-Ejected

DakaSha V

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
This is literally the first, non-patched version of a new fighting game IP with a large number of new systems and characters. its actually in a fantastic state all things considered. It is 100% not perfect (or maybe even close to perfect) but its remarkable how well done the game is (for its age.. things do need to change, and hopefully the patch does a good job)

Also claiming that this game is about "mashing" is flat out stupid.

edit: The biggest issue of the game, that wont change (imo) is character sameyness, which is an unfortunate side effect of using the shit dragonball universe (and wanting to appeal to smash bros people). Still, the characters are not quite as samey under the surface.

I prefer GG too, but its sadly more or less dead. DBFZ isn't as good, but its more than good enough, and actually has an active playerbase

edit again: No.. the biggest issue is the shit lobby system and matchmaking. That shit has to be changed. Its atrocious.
 
Last edited:

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
I really just don't see the appeal of playing fighting game's online (even if I understand the necessity as the explanations for it show), you just gotta do it in person on the same sofa or cabinet or it just isn't the same.


Still, there's an advantage to a more casual game than GG, you could get people who aren't really into these games to play DBFZ along some beers, where as Guilty Gear or BlazBlue (sticking with ArcSys examples; my personal experience of this happening is with KoFXIII) would be just too much to ask for (and worse if anyone in the room knows fighting games or even worse those games).
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Messages
1,633
edit again: No.. the biggest issue is the shit lobby system and matchmaking. That shit has to be changed. Its atrocious.

They did botch the online systems. I honestly think if they had renamed their lobbies after Dragon Ball characters rather than 'WEST COAST LOBBY 1-16', etc or had an honest-to-god chatroom for PC players, maybe one that's even accessible within Training Mode, the PC community would be a lot larger. The bedrock is there but they don't do anything with it.

I'm also still playing this game and loving it (although admittedly I'm using an all-saiyan team). If anyone wants to have some fights let me know, i'm based in NA east coast.
 
Self-Ejected

DakaSha V

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
Still, there's an advantage to a more casual game than GG, you could get people who aren't really into these games to play DBFZ along some beers, where as Guilty Gear or BlazBlue (sticking with ArcSys examples; my personal experience of this happening is with KoFXIII) would be just too much to ask for (and worse if anyone in the room knows fighting games or even worse those games).

I legitimately do not understand this reasoning. Its like the fact that (shitty, almost universally subpar) autocombos exist somehow makes the game "casual", when I have never seen a fighting game that punishes new players more than this. If i play against a casual, he will NOT BE ABLE TO ACT. He will be put in the corner, and be forced to watch me almost perfect his ass for 2 mins straight. In something like street fighter, the situation at least gets reset. (and the match only lasts a few seconds)

This game is NOT casual friendly, unless its between two casuals who have no idea what they are doing. If even a mediocre player (such as myself) is matched against a noob, it will make the noob never want to play again. Christ, I have 200 hours in the game, and pinks destroy me so hard that I often have to take a breather, despite being a FG vet thats used to it

edit: And i dont get the couch talk, personally. I play FG's for the competition. Not stale repetitive shit you see with your shitty friends

edit again: maybe im reading you wrong. DBFZ is arguably "easier" to get into i guess. but again, it wont help the new player in any way (vs somebody who knows what hes doing)
 

Vaarna_Aarne

Notorious Internet Vandal
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
34,585
Location
Cell S-004
MCA Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Key thing is that it takes a few minutes to explain the fundamentals of playing DBFZ. I'd say the more casual-friendly part isn't the autocombo, but that the inputs overall follow simpler and more uniform patterns. There's nothing like say Bullet's combination distortion drive, it's all Hadouken level stuff. So point is indeed that it's "easier" to get into.
 
Self-Ejected

DakaSha V

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
Key thing is that it takes a few minutes to explain the fundamentals of playing DBFZ. I'd say the more casual-friendly part isn't the autocombo, but that the inputs overall follow simpler and more uniform patterns. There's nothing like say Bullet's combination distortion drive, it's all Hadouken level stuff. So point is indeed that it's "easier" to get into.

Well I can agree with that, but i dont think it helps anybody in the end (assuming you know how to play fighting games, and your friends dont)
 
Self-Ejected

DakaSha V

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
Well true, but the chasm is notably smaller than with for example KoF XIII.

The chasm is just as big, if not bigger, since in KoF youll be able to actually MOVE as a new player. You can not even move in this game if youre outmatched. It doesnt matter if all inputs are QCF/QCB motions if youre in the corner eating 50 mixups in a row

The bad player will lose all the same of course, but again, in Sf or KoF at least you can hop around and try to stay alive while mashing like an idiot

If your friend is actually willing to learn, then i would agree that DB is a better choice to start with though
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

DakaSha V

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 16, 2017
Messages
436
Apparently the new patch is absolute garbage and only nerfs droid 16 to the ground, and fixes some bugs :negative:

(To be fair 16 did piss me the fuck off)

Edit: there is some hope this isn't the actual big upcoming patch, but more of a bug fix patch
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom