Avadon 3: The Warborn

[Dayyālu]

Never played Avadon. Coming from the Geneforge series, I'm in for a gigantic let-down playing this, ain't I?
Also, the price tag.

I could write several paragraphs explaining why, but let us cut short.Yes. It's a huge let down.

Play Nethergate, as JF said, and let Spiderweb games rest. I can't conceive how the author of Geneforge is the same man who gave us Avadon.

 

[gaussgunner]

Play Nethergate, as JF said, and let Spiderweb games rest. I can't conceive how the author of Geneforge is the same man who gave us Avadon.

When I played Avadon it felt like an allegory for post-9/11 America translated to a D&D fantasy world. Redbeard = George W. Bush, Miranda = Condi Rice, ...

Who's Dick Cheney?

 

[JarlFrank]

If he ever gets around to remaking Geneforge, I'll check it out. Other than that, no thanks.

I, for one, would welcome it if he tried to make something new rather than remake the same games in the same engine 100 times (I think Avernum 1 takes the cake in number of remakes)

 

[Modron]

I, for one, would welcome it if he tried to make something new rather than remake the same games in the same engine 100 times (I think Avernum 1 takes the cake in number of remakes)

You mean exile.

 

[Infinitron]

http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2016/09/we-released-avadon-3-also-few-words.html

We Released Avadon 3! (Also, a Few Words About Free Time)


Avadon is done. That's 5 years of my life, tied up with a bow.

I don't always write controversial, widely-read blog posts that make people way, way, WAY angrier than they should be. I also make games.

At last, we have completed the Avadon Saga! Avadon 3: The Warborn is out for Macintosh and Windows! We are selling this fine, indie, retro, story-heavy RPG on Steam, GOG, Humble Store, and our own site.

Our next step is to port the game to the iPad, and hope that Apple doesn't accidentally step on us with its big, lumbering feet.

I wrote in some detail about who we are and what the Avadon series is like in May. I don't like to repeat myself. I prefer to troll the Internet by bantering about whether or not video games are Art or not. (Answer: Good Lord! Who cares?)

It is very exciting to finish a fantasy saga, the third big one I've completed. I'm sure you find it perplexing, as taking forever to actually wrestle a story to the ground is a constant plague in the genre. My secret technique: 1. Sit down in a warm, dry place. 2. Figure out how the story ends. 3. Write that.

Anyway. What to blog about? I'm trying to make interesting blog post that people tweet about so I can get a tiny scrap of attention and maybe sell some games.

Avadon 3: The Warborn is my 16th full-length, all new game. (My 24th, if you count remasters. And I put a lot of time in my remasters.) This is a large number. I've been writing indie games an unprecedentedly long time, and aspiring developers, for some reason, are often interested in my advice about things.

So, since I'm entering my blissful quiet period between games, I wanted to say how I spend that time. Because I know some of my in-depth fans like to know how I make the stuff they like. And because, when you want to be a creator in the long term, profitably expending your downtime is vitally important.

(If you don't care about me or my process, and you shouldn't, your time may be more profitably expended getting a huge, free demo of a cool new RPG.)

So what am I about to do?


Screenshot of my game provided for crass self-interest purposes.

1. Rest.

"If you're going to rest, rest."
- Angry White Pyjamas

If you are a driven, type-A person, it can be hard to rest. You might think, "Oh, I'll sit around for an hour, but first I'll write a blog post/make some calls/do some design work/not rest."

You need rest to live. Pick a time. Pick something that will rest you. Spent that time doing that thing. I know you're driven. That's why you are a success. You still need to refill your tank for when it really counts.

2. Play Games.

This is actually work.

While I write a game, I am filling my Steam library. If it's hip or gets my attention or is in a nice, cheap bundle, I buy it. Now is the time for me to try them. All of them.

The purpose of this is to evaluate the state of the art. Find out what sorts of designs are hot now. Sample all of the weird mash-ups indies have come up with. ("Procedurally generated tower-defense roguelike") Look for new interface innovations, and see what irritates me so I know not to do that.

I play each game until I think I've seen everything new it has to offer. Most games get 15 minutes, tops. I especially try games in my genre, RPGs, even though I hate the vast majority of them. (I am a VERY jaded RPG gamer.)

Every once in a while, I find that rarest of treasures: A game I actually enjoy playing. This is a true treat. I actually play it for a while for fun, to remind myself why I do this. (This time around, I'm playing a lot of Inside and Salt & Sanctuary. Great games.)


As always, terrific color art provided by Ben Resnick.

3. Gather Ideas.

When I am not formally working on a game, it's a wonderful time to just go for long walks and thing up ideas. Stare at a wall. Listen to music. Think. Imagine. Write down what comes to me. It's a wonderful bit of freedom, to just let my brain wander.

99 out of 100 ideas are never used. But that 100th idea? That might be the bit of gasoline that fuels years of productive development.

But Back To Avadon. There Is a Demo.

Demos of games are vanishingly rare now, but I'm cranky and stuck in my ways, so I provide them. I don't want to take your money until you are sure the game functions and you like it.

We still have the biggest demos in the biz. You can download one on Avadon 3's page on our site.

(By the way, since I am often asked, we get the biggest cut of $$$ when you order using the Humble widget on the game's page. This comes with a Steam key. However, I am very grateful when you order no matter where you do it from.)


I'm still really happy with this screenshot. Looks even better in the trailer.

I Hope You Like the Game

The Avadon trilogy was very different from what came before. A lot of new people loved it. A lot of our old fans really didn't. I genuinely enjoy playing them, so I'll vouch for them. I think Avadon 3 is really cool. It's a gruesomely tough market, but I'm optimistic. I hope you like it.

On to the next thing ...

 

[JarlFrank]

How many games has he made now, and his art is still uglier than, say, Eschalon.

How expensive could a good tileset be ffs?

 

[Fever]

I could write several paragraphs explaining why, but let us cut short.Yes. It's a huge let down.

Play Nethergate, as JF said, and let Spiderweb games rest. I can't conceive how the author of Geneforge is the same man who gave us Avadon.

Off to the Nethergate I go then, with my thanks.
I may try to get into Avernum later on, because I hear the name quite a lot and I already bought the bundle years ago - never played tho.
I guess Avadon will be the only Spiderweb series I won't get to know. No regrets at the moment.

 

[Agesilaus]

Nethergate is fantastic, as is the Geneforge series.

Anyway, saw the release of Avadon 3 today. I'm going to hold off on buying it, because Avadon is not my cup of tea. Not even going to download the demo.

If it's a lot different from Avadon 2, then I'll change my mind, but honestly it's a really boring and shitty series.

 

[Kruno]

I hated the previous two Avadon games, but I am really liking this one. I'm spending most of my time screwing around and exploring, combat doesn't happen too often, and when it does most of it is over quickly, if you want challenging combat encounters then you should explore. Started playing it on hard, but moved the difficulty to Torment; DOTs hurt, but enemy HP seems to remain the same.

I am enjoying this one. Geneforge like exploration with tight combat mechanics.

EDIT:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comm...l_i_run_spiderweb_software_since_1994/d7o8a5n

Our next all-new series will have a much more dead-on, Exile type perspective.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Yeah, if you hated Avadon 1 and 2 for their linearity and Bioware-lite structure, you probably won't like this one either as it doesn't change much in that regard. But from what I've seen thus far, there is less trash mob combat than the previous games. And torment difficulty doesn't seem to rely on hitpoint bloat as past spiderweb games, instead using the addtion of friendly fire, enemy abilities, and a few resitances to increase difficulty. Honestly, this means that this is probably the easiest Avadon game of all 3 on torment, but as the past two (and especially the first) were very trash mob heavy and hit point bloaty, it's a welcome change. Combat and difficulty in this seem more in line with the earlier Geneforges, in that there's much less of it and it's not as tedious when it happens.

TInkermages are still insanely overpowered, though. Playing with 2 tinkermages in your party will, in effect, drop a torment game down to casual. So if you want a challange, don't make your main PC a Tinkermage. My main PC is a mage and I've been rolling with a 2 mage party, which is fun as the friendly fire forces you to be concious of placement (it's kind of hilarious that if a mage casts daze over themselves they will daze even themselves if their INT isn't high enough).

 

[Heretic]

The AMA on Reddit is quite sad.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/52xrub/im_jeff_vogel_i_run_spiderweb_software_since_1994/

The AMA looks positive but if you remove all nostalgic comments praising Exile or Geneforge that the commenters "pirated as a child", there's not really much about Spiderweb's future.

The number of times he says "I'm a jaded RPG player" while admitting he doesn't play and like RPGs, "I'm old and tired", "I'm cranky" when talking about why he works alone and never hires anyone...

It seems that Jeff Vogel has burnt out.

 

[gaussgunner]

The AMA on Reddit is quite sad.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/52xrub/im_jeff_vogel_i_run_spiderweb_software_since_1994/

Informative though. Someone asked why he switched to isometric....

It was me, because I like it better. And now I'm tired of it. Our next all-new series will have a much more dead-on, Exile type perspective.

New engine plans confirmed, with new (but cheaper) artwork.

 

[Hobo Elf]

It's a shame that Vogel is pretty much in auto pilot now. Too bad he's suffering from midlife crisis so bad that it's likely to not do him, or us, any favors either. He's a 40-something guy acting like he's 90 and dying.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

His "I'm so old" schtick is really fucking annoying and he's been doing it since he was in his late 30s. So you are 45 and have a desk job. Welcome to the human race. I suspect he thinks it's charming or something, which it's not.

 

[ortucis]

shouldn't be too hard with 4-5 employees instead of solo-ing everything with freelance artists

That is a REALLY bad idea for someone like him. He will have to waste money on paying income for these employees. And if the project fails, then it's money down the shitter. At least with freelance outsourced work he doesn't have to risk much.

Anyway, if he tries to go big, that would be interesting to watch. I am not a big fan of his games but I love reading his blog and do like how he churns out these games. A true indie.

 

[Achilles]

Wait, Vogel is 45? I thought he was 60 or something.

 

[gaussgunner]

Yup. I'm almost as old as him, and while I'm starting to feel it, my programming and gamedev-related skills are only improving with age. Experience is king in this line of work.

Jeff is probably burnt out from making nothing but crpg's for 25 years. Victim of his own success. Dude needs some variety and challenges. Contract dev, whimsical hobby project, whatever.

 

[JarlFrank]

The problem is really that he just gave up on making up interesting things. Nethergate and Geneforge were fresh settings with cool concepts, Avernum series was solid and the underground setting isn't one that is too common either, but then when he started with Avadon, he lost it, which is quite a shame.

His games have always been games with interesting concepts but low production values. Avadon removed the interesting concepts without raising the production values, resulting in entirely forgettable mediocrity. And the worst thing is that the man embraced this mediocrity now.

 

[Kem0sabe]

The problem is really that he just gave up on making up interesting things. Nethergate and Geneforge were fresh settings with cool concepts, Avernum series was solid and the underground setting isn't one that is too common either, but then when he started with Avadon, he lost it, which is quite a shame.

His games have always been games with interesting concepts but low production values. Avadon removed the interesting concepts without raising the production values, resulting in entirely forgettable mediocrity. And the worst thing is that the man embraced this mediocrity now.

During the AMA I asked him about a nethergate sequel, he answered that he imagined a sci-fi sequel, which would have been awesome, but he was satisfied with the story of the first game and didn't feel it needed a sequel...

Avadon gets 3 fucking games.

 

[Infinitron]

Avadon 3: The Warborn Reviews

GameSkinny gives it a 9/10:

It is a game that players of all skill levels can play. From those new to the genre to the masochistic veterans looking for the ultimate challenge, Avadon 3 caters for all. It is a game that keeps you hooked from the very beginning right through to the end.

I’ve enjoyed every minute of both playthroughs of this game and can’t recommend it highly enough. If you are a fan of CRPGs or looking for a deep story where your choices matter, then Avadon 3 will satisfy your cravings.

Blot Gaming gives it a 6.2/10:

Avadon 3 is a solid attempt to bring the turn-based RPG to the modern age. With franchises like Final Fantasy opting for a pseudo-turn-based format, seekers of classic tabletop-esque video games have had to turn elsewhere, and, in concept, Avadon 3 is an excellent place to turn to. The story is original, but fantastical, befitting both the target audience and the genre. However, it is marred by an obtuse interface and the odd design choice. The combat is not particularly deep, but it is fresh, bringing new features and blending elements from the likes of Diablo in with tried and true features which will appeal to fans of the classics.

And IndieGames does the first impression thing:

Fortunately, all of Spiderweb Software's games feature great writing, even on the side quests, which fleshes out the world and its societies through example. In the ten hours I've put into the game, Avadon 3: The Warborn has put a lot of emphasis on the humanity of folks on all sides of a war. From the village across the border that helps you out because they don't want to get caught up in the fighting to a rebellion on the verge of surrender because they have a problem they can't solve on their own, people on all sides of the conflict are written as people with understandable motivations rather than cookie-cutter enemies.

 

[Infinitron]

Spiderweb Software Blog Update and AMA

I still play the Exile series. Exile 3 is one of my favorite titles from when I was a wee boy.

However, I had issues with Avernum and its isometric viewpoint. Out of curiosity, who made the decision for the change from the "topdown" view?

It was me, because I like it better. And now I'm tired of it. Our next all-new series will have a much more dead-on, Exile type perspective.

I change everything all the time. It's how I keep this fresh for me. Every change makes someone happy and someone sad. It's unfortunate, but it's an integral part of the thing.

...

I want to thank you for bringing all your games to Mac, that's actually how I started playing your games. What drove you to simultaneously release on Windows and Mac?

Also, I've noticed the first Avadon was released for Linux on steam, but nowhere else. I was wondering what your motivation was for having a Linux release of that game, if it was worth the investment, and if we can expect any more Linux releases in the future.

Big fan by the way. Beat Geneforge 5 and Avernum 5 and 6. Put quite a few hours into some of the others. Keep up the good work!

The Mac/Win simultaneous thing was just the way the market moved. It is REALLY hard to do PR for a game that comes out for Mac first. Also, if you do Mac first, Steam is not going to be super-interested in you.

Plus, simultaneous releases are just better, honestly. Easier to do. Better for fans.

The linux port was to get Avadon in Humble Bundle. That port wasn't done by me, but by an incredibly talented freelancer (whose name I am blanking on, alas). Linux doesn't sell well enough for a tiny company like me to wrestle with it.

...

Huge fan of your games, especially the Geneforge series as I grew up playing it. My questions is slightly greedy: Are there any plans to remaster some of your earlier games? Especially for example the first 3 Geneforge games that don't have HD resolution options. I know it's a big ask for an indie company and that it doesn't really make business sense, but I'm interested nonetheless.

I am a big, BIG fan of remasters, for many reasons. They end up better games. They let me modernize the engine, making new things possible (like iPad ports). Also, the old games stop working on modern systems.

Yes, I will remaster Geneforge. All of them, absolutely. However, it has to get in line. I'll probably start the Geneforge remasters in 3 years. Avernum 3 is far more due.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

There are many instances in life when I find I can compare some current event to evens in the movie Theatre of Blood and this is no exception.

1:31:42 - 1:33:10



And all the Codex comments are like:

45:03 - 47:14



Also, awesome movie if you've never seen it, it all seems to be on Youtube in high quality at last and for free! Catch it while you can...

 

[nimateb]

I hated the previous two Avadon games, but I am really liking this one. I'm spending most of my time screwing around and exploring, combat doesn't happen too often, and when it does most of it is over quickly, if you want challenging combat encounters then you should explore. Started playing it on hard, but moved the difficulty to Torment; DOTs hurt, but enemy HP seems to remain the same.

I am enjoying this one. Geneforge like exploration with tight combat mechanics.

EDIT:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comm...l_i_run_spiderweb_software_since_1994/d7o8a5n

Same for me, this is much better than Avadon 1-2.

 

[Roqua]

For some reason I like Avadon better than the avernum remakes, even though Avernum has full party gen which I love. I think it is due to the (what I consider) not so good chargen and dev in the Avernum games. The trees are not good and it is all very homogenous. The trees in Avedon 1 and 2 are class specific, and it has the extra trinket slots, and I think the stats are more impactful. I dislike recruitable npcs so would love to see avernum with a much beefier chargen and dev system and better combat.

I am still butthurt by his disparate pricing and his gouging of the same people who carried him all these years compared to poor taste monkey retards on their hipster devices, but you fucking retards need to recognize that if it wasn't for Spiderweb we would have had a lot less rpgs during the console exodus. He carried us just as we carried him. And this is another reason why we really need to separate the people who post on this site because we like rpgs, and the people here because they think they like rpgs but like console games with lite rpg elements.

 

[Grape_You_In_the_Mouth]

Just made some custom pics so I can play this game. If you want to use them here's the link. Here are some examples, but I changed the background story screens also. All you need to do is just dump them in your Graphics Core folder.

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Now if only I could edit his writing....