Review Avadon: The Black Fortress Review Bonanza

[Blind Eye]

^^^^^^ Made me laugh.


Edit: oh that figures.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Abilities use stamina, which does not regenerate on its own unless you return to the point at which you began a particular mission to rest, or if you head back to the central “hub” of Avadon. This can be frustrating at times, as you essentially have to consider your stamina a limited resource.

Yes, limited resources are horrible creatures!!!

Seriously, where the fuck do they find these guys? These represent three completely different reviews and scores, yet all three reviews are equally crappy and full of stupid. Someone kill this shitty industry already.

Oh well, I guess the stamina bar will be 'auto regen after combat' in Avadon 2 now. It would be fun to know what Jeff thought when he read these reviews.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Yes, limited resources are horrible creatures!!!

Seriously, where the fuck do they find these guys? These represent three completely different reviews and scores, yet all three reviews are equally crappy and full of stupid. Someone kill this shitty industry already.

Oh well, I guess the stamina bar will be 'auto regen after combat' in Avadon 2 now. It would be fun to know what Jeff thought when he read these reviews.

Exactly. While the demo didn't blow me away, I would like to offer a little sympathy to Vogel now, since, as Raapys said - three different retards writing three different but just as retarded articles. Though, Blackadder got the best idea so far, maybe Jeff will make another blogpost soon?

 

[Sceptic]

Here are some of the requirements:

-Must be 18 years of age

Does this mean anyone older is also disqualified? That would certainly explain much.

 

[talan]

I’m not going to lie to you here, I only played the game for about six hours because I could not bring myself to play anymore.

Thanks, I'm glad you can provide a conclusive review on an RPG with only 6 hours of playing it. Professional game journalists usually have the audacity of playing a game most of the way through or even the entire game before making a proper judgement.

How about I talk about the gameplay first, it tries to be just like Diablo or the more recent Torchlight. I don’t know how to tell you it’s not like Diablo, when you get into combat you use a character to attack, move, or whatever.

Holy shit, Spiderweb has a lot to answer for. Their combat not only includes attack and move, but whatever. Whatever is what makes Diablo really special and they stole it wholeheartedly. Either that, or you're talking out of your ass trying to make a connection from an action RPG to party-based CRPG with turn-based combat.

Don't worry though, its probably the former.

I mean there are abilities and spells you can use, but you will mostly end up just attacking because the game is pretty easy (on the normal setting).

I think you mean the first few hours are easy. Considering you told us you played for 6 hours I doubt you can make a credible argument against the games difficulty.

Here’s something I don’t understand, when one of my character’s inventories is full and you try to pick up an item it doesn’t go into another character’s inventory it just says inventory full. We are in 2011 are we not? Yes, Spiderweb is an indie developer, but I don’t believe that having an item going into an unfilled inventory on it’s own without having to control that character should be that hard to program.

Because you're trying to add it to that characters inventory! It isn't hard to toggle between characters using the portraits (or the numbers 1 2 3) to add stuff to their inventory. Even transferring objects between characters is simply clicking on the item and the portrait/number.

Let me bring up the graphics now. They’re not the greatest at all, but that usually doesn’t matter. In this case it should matter considering the mediocre gameplay and cluttered inventory system already makes it lose points. I honestly don’t care about how it looks if everything else is fine, but I still tried to not care. You just can’t do that in this game, things like to blend into the environment, like items you might want to pick up or enemies you need to fight.

So the graphics are allowed to matter if you don't like the gameplay? Well, that seems to be a lot easier than providing constructive criticism. Never once did I think an enemy was part of the environment, you should provide screenshots to illuminate your points.

I now want to mention the story. The bland, boring story. I already mentioned the origin of Avadon as a fortress earlier in the review, but there is more. The Hands of Avadon are being killed off and it’s up to you to figure out what is up. Yes, that is it, except not exactly.

No, thats a premise. Its like saying like saying Baldurs Gate story is Gorion being killed off and it's up to you to figure out what is up, or Mass Effect 2 is you being killed off and it's up to you to figure out what is up. It's dumb, limited in scope and doesn't explain why you think the story is boring.

there is something about a dragon that you need to calm down. Calm down, not kill. There are I think a couple of points in the game where you must do this and to do this you have to do some random quest for him that has nothing to do with the main plot, but that you still have to do to progress in the main plot.

You're a Hand with your task from Avadon is APPEASE THE DRAGON! And appeasing the dragon by doing tasks for it is advancing the main plot.

How can you, a novice Hand, kill an all-powerful dragon a few hours into the game anyway?

There is something else weird and unforgivable in this game. There is a very random glitch that makes your main character just disappear from the game. The character’s inventory and stats can still show up, but whenever you try to search for the character the game just brings you to a random black empty space on the map that is non-existent. I don’t know what causes this, but it’s happened twice and it’s just broken my game and I had to go back to a save point before said event happened for my main character to appear again.

I'm not doubting this happened, but it would be nice if you provided a screenshot of this in your review. Probably a combat screenshot which would show you the green grid and enemies attacking a blank spot. Guess it was easier to provide stock screenshots from Avadons web site instead of making a real point.

I feel like everything written in this review is, just like this game, a mess.

I'd say its your inability to write and provide a reasonable critique which is what makes this review a mess. But I'm glad you see your review for what it is.

 

[JaySn]

Thanks, I'm glad you can provide a conclusive review on an RPG with only 6 hours of playing it. Professional game journalists usually have the audacity of playing a game most of the way through or even the entire game before making a proper judgement.

So, just how long is a play-through of Avadon?

Never once did I think an enemy was part of the environment, you should provide screenshots to illuminate your points.

Nor have I, at least regarding enemies. Items scattered about the map tend not to be represented as a sprite. The only way to become aware of these items is to press 'i' or 'g'. Though there are some exceptions: a bucket of water here, a clay bowl there.


A few things I've noted working through the demo (I've hardly 'corrected' all the convicts yet, but I'll get there.):
In a quest? Great! Unless the person you wish to converse with is flagged as part of that quest, you'll get a pop-up reminding you of your duty.

Wanna fight that guard over there?
"You can't talk during combat."

How does this area look?
I'll tell you in a popup, complete with the option to record and acknowledge it.
(I've never seen such pretty open-concept dungeons, complete with reflecting pools for the condemned. And such a fine picket fence surrounding the administration office.)

"Some believe that Redbeard [subtle] can see into your dreams." I think he means "... their dreams." Many little things such as this crop up in his writing.

Walking around the garden, I've come to the conclusion that there is no way what so ever to examine objects . . . Why is there a urn here, a statue of a centurion there? Your character will never know ...


Anyone else have incredibly quick walking/running animations for their party, even in turn-based mode? For me it plays almost like X-COM Apocalypse.

Does Avadon represent the quality of Vogel's earlier works?

 

[Davaris]

Here's an idea. Two different types of loot: loot-bags and bling-bags. Whenever you get bling that is only good for selling to a merchant for money, you get bling-bags = you get cash. When you get a loot-bag it means there's useful loot in it (unspecified). But here's the next-gen: once you amass enough "loot points" (for collecting loot-bags) you get to choose from a list of level-scaled items, and then you get that item. You can save loot-points to get better itamz. No need to delve through endless loot anymore! You just magically amass all the stuff you find and then you choose whatever you need! It makes sense (if you are seriosuly stoned), is streamlined and fuck that shit lawl.

For fucks sake, don't give them ideas .

This is genius! Additionally, searching for loot after battles, or while exploring is too hardcore. So after battles, corpses are auto looted and rooms you enter are auto looted.

Omniloot Generation System © RPGCodex.

 

[Smiffy]

Nor have I, at least regarding enemies. Items scattered about the map tend not to be represented as a sprite. The only way to become aware of these items is to press 'i' or 'g'. Though there are some exceptions: a bucket of water here, a clay bowl there.

You'll occasionally find minor loot to sell where there is some debris or scattered bones or something like that. It's not that hard to figure out. Of course there's always the chance to miss out on that Dust Speck of Invincibility +7, lying there in the middle of nowhere with no sprite to draw your attention.

A few things I've noted working through the demo (I've hardly 'corrected' all the convicts yet, but I'll get there.):
In a quest? Great! Unless the person you wish to converse with is flagged as part of that quest, you'll get a pop-up reminding you of your duty.
Wanna fight that guard over there?
"You can't talk during combat."

Um, what?

How does this area look?
I'll tell you in a popup, complete with the option to record and acknowledge it.
(I've never seen such pretty open-concept dungeons, complete with reflecting pools for the condemned. And such a fine picket fence surrounding the administration office.)

Um, what?

"Some believe that Redbeard [subtle] can see into your dreams." I think he means "... their dreams." Many little things such as this crop up in his writing.

I think he means "your dreams". If it were "their dreams" it would mean that they believe that Redbeard can only see into the dreams of those who said that they believe that Redbeard can see into their dreams, implying that fear of Redbeard made them paranoid, no?

Walking around the garden, I've come to the conclusion that there is no way what so ever to examine objects . . . Why is there a urn here, a statue of a centurion there? Your character will never know ...

Yes, this is a shame. Shame on you, Jeff Vogel, you lazy bastard. Seriously, if there is one sign for the decline of Spiderweb, it is this.

Anyone else have incredibly quick walking/running animations for their party, even in turn-based mode? For me it plays almost like X-COM Apocalypse.

Yes, I think it's implemented for the sake of not scaring away the twitchy crowd, and to somewhat make up for the bland map design.

Does Avadon represent the quality of Vogel's earlier works?

No it doesn't. Earlier games felt inspired. This one feels like the work of someone with talent and experience who has left his best days behind him but keeps on going on for the felt lack of alternatives.

 

[bhlaab]

I really want to champion that 1/10 review just because i love nagativity but the dude who wrote it is a fucking mongoloid

 

[talan]

So, just how long is a play-through of Avadon?

No idea.

Nor have I, at least regarding enemies. Items scattered about the map tend not to be represented as a sprite. The only way to become aware of these items is to press 'i' or 'g'. Though there are some exceptions: a bucket of water here, a clay bowl there.

Fair enough. A button which would highlight objects in the world would be a good idea.

Does Avadon represent the quality of Vogel's earlier works?

No idea. Codex review might be around soon.

 

[JaySn]

Disclaimer: I'm hardly into this thing. These are just my observations so far, perhaps things change as you progress.

In a quest? Great! Unless the person you wish to converse with is flagged as part of that quest, you'll get a pop-up reminding you of your duty.
Wanna fight that guard over there?
"You can't talk during combat."

Um, what?

a) Early in the game, you're told to speak with a woman. If you try to speak with anyone else, a popup appears telling you that they are clearly not this woman.
b) If you attempt to attack anyone who isn't hostile towards you, you cannot. The game assumes, even in combat mode, that you're attempting to enter into dialogue.

How does this area look?
I'll tell you in a popup, complete with the option to record and acknowledge it.
(I've never seen such pretty open-concept dungeons, complete with reflecting pools for the condemned. And such a fine picket fence surrounding the administration office.)

Um, what?

Vogel seems to insist on telling you how you're suppose to interpret the scene before you, rather than rely on the the graphics (which should be more than adequate, by the looks) to convey the atmosphere and the purpose of the area.

I get the impression that Vogel feels I can't draw my own conclusions (or if I were to, they'd be in correct without his exposition).

I think he means "your dreams". If it were "their dreams" it would mean that they believe that Redbeard can only see into the dreams of those who said that they believe that Redbeard can see into their dreams, implying that fear of Redbeard made them paranoid, no?

Exactly, and they would be. Unless they can pull the thoughts from my mind, how can they know I adhere to their belief? I didn't interpret it the same way as you, is all.

Does Avadon represent the quality of Vogel's earlier works?

No it doesn't. Earlier games felt inspired. This one feels like the work of someone with talent and experience who has left his best days behind him but keeps on going on for the felt lack of alternatives.

What would you recommend as a more inspired (perhaps more polished, writing-wise) work? Perhaps it'd provide a good distraction as I procrastinatework diligently to the conclusion of Avadon.

 

[DwarvenFood]

I wonder how Jeff feals about these reviews and stupid comments in them - considering how butthurt he was about our own prestigious threads here.

But that line about not being able to pick something up because of the inventory being full.. the decline runs deep in people.

 

[nihil]

That third review is scary stuff...

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Disclaimer: I'm hardly into this thing. These are just my observations so far, perhaps things change as you progress.

In a quest? Great! Unless the person you wish to converse with is flagged as part of that quest, you'll get a pop-up reminding you of your duty.
Wanna fight that guard over there?
"You can't talk during combat."

Um, what?

a) Early in the game, you're told to speak with a woman. If you try to speak with anyone else, a popup appears telling you that they are clearly not this woman.
b) If you attempt to attack anyone who isn't hostile towards you, you cannot. The game assumes, even in combat mode, that you're attempting to enter into dialogue.

This game reeks of .

How does this area look?
I'll tell you in a popup, complete with the option to record and acknowledge it.
(I've never seen such pretty open-concept dungeons, complete with reflecting pools for the condemned. And such a fine picket fence surrounding the administration office.)

Um, what?

Vogel seems to insist on telling you how you're suppose to interpret the scene before you, rather than rely on the the graphics (which should be more than adequate, by the looks) to convey the atmosphere and the purpose of the area.

These descriptions are a fanservice for p'n'p RPG fans. They are here to bring a bit of the atmosphere of playing with a game master to the computer. I always like stuff like that and I liked it in his previous games.

Does Avadon represent the quality of Vogel's earlier works?

No it doesn't. Earlier games felt inspired. This one feels like the work of someone with talent and experience who has left his best days behind him but keeps on going on for the felt lack of alternatives.

What would you recommend as a more inspired (perhaps more polished, writing-wise) work? Perhaps it'd provide a good distraction as I procrastinatework diligently to the conclusion of Avadon.

Exile 2.

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

Author: Jeff Knox (untitledmage) Not much to say about me except that I love video games, especially RPGs no matter how repetitive and tedious they are. Other than that I'm just a dude like all other dudes. I also just discovered I love action movies to death, especially if they're ridiculous and campy.

 

[Brother None]

So, just how long is a play-through of Avadon?

About 30 hours, at the least. I think many will have a longer initial playthrough, especially if you up the difficulty (which you should).

Does Avadon represent the quality of Vogel's earlier works?

No.

a) Early in the game, you're told to speak with a woman. If you try to speak with anyone else, a popup appears telling you that they are clearly not this woman.

That's pretty much only in the opening mission. Same is true for all the quest markers. There's a stack of em in the tutorial missions, then they're pretty much gone.

The "can't attack people unless the game says you can" thing stays though. And it becomes kinda stupid.

Abilities use stamina, which does not regenerate on its own unless you return to the point at which you began a particular mission to rest, or if you head back to the central “hub” of Avadon. This can be frustrating at times, as you essentially have to consider your stamina a limited resource.

Yes, limited resources are horrible creatures!!!

His complaint is way off, but the stamina system really doesn't work as well as the partially-regenerating-stamina-no-HP-regeneration system of Avernum worked. Avadon's system just turns most combat into plinking as you sacrifice HP instead of precious stamina, since HP regenerates anyway.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The inventory system is a mess in that you can’t (or at least I couldn’t find out how to) organize my items

Is this what we must deal with?

People that lack the ability to place similar items next to each other?

Avadon 2 - Hardcore Mode

 

[CappenVarra]

The inventory system is a mess in that you can’t (or at least I couldn’t find out how to) organize my items

Is this what we must deal with?

People that lack the ability to place similar items next to each other?

Avadon 2 - Hardcore Mode

So, Avadon 2 will only have three character classes instead of four?

 

[Roguey]

His complaint is way off, but the stamina system really doesn't work as well as the partially-regenerating-stamina-no-HP-regeneration system of Avernum worked. Avadon's system just turns most combat into plinking as you sacrifice HP instead of precious stamina, since HP regenerates anyway.

Vogel already said you were lying about this and had only played for a few seconds before shelving it, why must you continue this charade?

 

[Kalin]

The "can't attack people unless the game says you can" thing stays though. And it becomes kinda stupid.

Like the prophet said:

A BRO SHGOULD BE ABLE TO KILL OR TALK TO ANY MOTHERFUCKER

Avadon continues to disappoint.

 

[Johannes]

His complaint is way off, but the stamina system really doesn't work as well as the partially-regenerating-stamina-no-HP-regeneration system of Avernum worked. Avadon's system just turns most combat into plinking as you sacrifice HP instead of precious stamina, since HP regenerates anyway.

Vogel already said you were lying about this and had only played for a few seconds before shelving it, why must you continue this charade?

Well, I haven't played the full game, but I can see how they're both right in a way.

In one respect, if you can survive a fight without using stamina (or using as little of it as possible), there's no reason to use it, as Bro None says.
But according to Vogel you always have enough stamina regardless, so you might as well use some to hasten the fight and reduce boredom.

 

[Gwendo]

Am I the only one who noticed how large everything is designed in Avadon? You enter a farmer's house and it's huge, with corridors where 6 or more people could walk side by side.

I know Jeff had to take in consideration the iPad's smaller screen and a less accurate navigation system (touchscreen, our fingers are largers than a mouse cursor), but still... I think it's all a little bit off.

 

[JaySn]

Am I the only one who noticed how large everything is designed in Avadon? You enter a farmer's house and it's huge, with corridors where 6 or more people could walk side by side.

I know Jeff had to take in consideration the iPad's smaller screen and a less accurate navigation system (touchscreen, our fingers are largers than a mouse cursor), but still... I think it's all a little bit off.

After the handicap-accessible buildings in Fallout NV, it was hard to notice, honestly . . .

 

[Brother None]

Vogel already said you were lying about this and had only played for a few seconds before shelving it, why must you continue this charade?

I have no idea what you're talking about, so I'm going to assume this post is some kind of joke I don't get.

Am I the only one who noticed how large everything is designed in Avadon? You enter a farmer's house and it's huge, with corridors where 6 or more people could walk side by side.

Well, more than that, I noticed a lot of the buildings seem bigger on the inside than on the outside. It's very Dr Whoian.

 

[Johannes]

Vogel already said you were lying about this and had only played for a few seconds before shelving it, why must you continue this charade?

I have no idea what you're talking about, so I'm going to assume this post is some kind of joke I don't get.

He's talking of this

@Dan: Thank you for reposting the review above from the forums, since it does such a good job of clarifying why I feel the way I do. Consider this ...

"For almost all of the game: nope. In fact, the character system is structured to discourage you from using skills, since they eat up endurance, which doesn't regenerate, while health does. I'll dive into that in my review. It's the biggest screw-up of several screw-ups really."

This is just wrong.

It is clear that this feedback only comes from a few seconds of play, followed by a guess. If you actually played the game, you would know that, if this system can be criticized for anything, it's for abilities taking too little endurance. You almost never run out.

Some people think this is a flaw. I don't. It means that the game creates the impression of fatigue without ever inconveniencing the player with lots of trips back to town.

In other words, that "flaw," described as "the biggest screw-up of several screw-ups really" is not there. This is not constructive criticism. It is not even based in anything resembling reality.

When I read the RPG Codex thread on Avadon, it was at this exact post that I tuned out. I thought, "This is as close to a constructive comment as I'm going to get here, and I'm just wrong. I am wasting my time here."

- Jeff Vogel