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Avernum: Escape from the Pit

Repressed Homosexual
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
17,878
Location
Ottawa, Can.
https://spiderwebsoftware.com/avernum/avernum/index.html




https://af.gog.com/game/avernum_escape_from_the_pit?as=1649904300

Screenshots here:

http://www.avernum.com/avernum/shots.html

FAQ:

http://www.avernum.com/avernum/avernumFAQ.html

Avernum: Escape From the Pit FAQ

Avernum: Escape From the Pit is a ground-up rewrite of our popular game Avernum, which came out in 1999. Avernum is itself a rewrite of Exile: Escape From the Pit, which came out in 1995.

Avernum has long been our most popular series, and we know that its fans will have a lot of questions about how and why we are rewriting these classics. Hopefully, this page will clear up some of the questions.

The original game came out in 1999, and it is showing its age in many ways. It no longer even runs on the newest version of the Macintosh operating system, and it's starting to get very shaky on Windows 7, especially the 64-bit version. We don't want this game to disappear from the face of the earth, so a major retooling is necessary.

In addition, we want to release Avernum on the iPad, and that too requires major modifications from the ground up.

So we have two choices. Let it disappear or redo it. We love the game too much to pick the first option.

We are planning to sell Avernum ourselves for Mac and Windows for $20. Anyone who has purchased Exile: Escape From the Pit or Avernum from us in any form (including on compilation CDs) can get the game from us for half off.

We don't know how much the iPad version will be. Because of the way iTunes works, we will be completely unable to offer any sort of special discounts for the iPad version. Apple is very strict.

Yes. The same characters and the same storyline, though there will be lots of new dialogue, locations, quests, special encounters, and stuff to explore.

Absolutely. Unlike our recent all-new titles, Avernum: Escape From the Pit will have an outdoors to roam. The structure of the original game is unchanged.

Mostly. The interface is completely redone in the style of Avernum 6, but with many interface improvements brought over from Avadon: The Black Fortress. The character portraits are receiving a desperately overdue refurbishing. Many terrain icons from Avernum 6 are being used, but all creature and character graphics are being re-rendered.

No. The game system has been heavily revised. It's a mix of Avernum 6 and Avadon: The Black Fortress. It is still entirely skill-based and most of the skills are the same. However, the way you train has changed. Instead of saving up skill points, each level you get to increase two skills. You will make the same number of choices to shape your character, but you will be making more of them later in the game and fewer of them earlier. We are also taking pains to make it much more difficult to create a party that is too weak to progress through the game.

The Traits system has been massively reworked. Instead of picking two traits at the beginning of the game, you can select one new beneficial trait every two levels. A lot of these traits give simple bonuses, while others (like Backstab and Swordmage) can dramatically change the way you play the game.

Yes. Rescanned, larger, and freshened up.

Plenty. A new, large town with a pile of quests. New hidden dungeons. New hidden characters with lots of backstory and things you can do for them. A completely new starter dungeon/tutorial.

We have not ruled it out, but it won't happen any time soon.

We hope to release it for the Mac before the end of 2011 and for Windows and iPad in early 2012.

There is a screenshot of the skill tree.

And the overworld returns!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Pope Amole

Educated
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
138
Looking at the rpg system, it'll probably be shit because his new avadon system is total shit and, what's most important, not rpg at all.
 

Nim

Augur
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
453
We are also taking pains to make it much more difficult to create a party that is too weak to progress through the game.
I really wonder how he is going to achieve this ? Does it mean that we also won't be able to have parties that are too strong ?

Instead of picking two traits at the beginning of the game, you can select one new beneficial trait every two levels.
Right, why fix traits when you can just make them perks.

Eh, all in all it sounds like he has at least identified a bunch of problems. Not that I trust him to fix them in a good way.
 

Trash

Pointing and laughing.
Joined
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Messages
29,683
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About 8 meters beneath sea level.
Conflicted here. On one hand I do not see any need for a remake apart from Vogel's bank account. On the other hand I do like the art direction in the screenshots. Nothing big and perhaps worthy of a little demo playthrough

Then however I see his plans for dumbing down the entire system and neutering the game's difficulty and I walk away in rage.
 

hakuroshi

Augur
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
589
Considering (relative or not) failures of his attempts on something different - Nethergate and Avadon - it's understandable.

On the other hand, he managed Geneforge quite well.
 

Johannes

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Nov 20, 2010
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casting coach
Biggest problem with the Avernum/Exile games was how greatly yourpartys power level rose. So your combat tactics were quite secondary to just having high level enough (and properly built) party. A tough fight is trivial after you've done a quest or 2 and gotten better. Open world games should have less steep power progression. And higher difficulty level just means you can skip less content you don't like. Common enough fault in RPGs but it's shit anyway. Judging by that faq this won't change either, too bad...


I might still give it a go, I haven't completed the earlier versions of the game anyway. Then play it for as long as it's interesting, will see if it keeps fun all through the demo at least. And hopefully it'll have more interesting spell collection than Avernum.
 

Elwro

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Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Somehow, I'm not really sure why, playing Avernum 1 was one of the best dungeon-crawl-style-RPG experiences I had. Discovering the huge, unknown underground world was a blast. The plot was OK, iirc the main quests could've been done in the order of your choice. The last thing I did was to assassinate the emperor of the surface world, which was really satisfying and a great end to a great game.

Also, I liked to be rewarded for remembering or noting down some tiny details, like a shaky wall I should return to once I had the spell which would shake the ground etc.


Tha said, I have absolutely no intention to play a remake. The graphics are, I guess, a bit improved, but the original Avernum graphics are still serviceable and set the mood properly.
 

Vagiel

Augur
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319
Location
Greece
This is great news. If indie levels have come to this then the success of vogels game could inspire more turn based rpgs to surface, something i believed codex stands for. I agree that a remake is inferior to a new title but i am sure between those have not played the game at all and those who last played it 10 years ago there is a sizeable crowd to be excited about it.

About new IPs. Corporate giants are afraid to try new IPs and you expect someone as small as Vogel to go for something new every year? Lets be a little more realistic, this is good news! show some enthusiasm.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
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Messages
7,671
Fuck, Vogel, it's not funny.
Expecting Exile > Avernum >>>>> Avernum:Escape from the Pit
 

syllopsium

Educated
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Oct 5, 2009
Messages
67
He keeps doing this becase it's basically easier money. New games require a lot more development

I'd do the same if I was an indie developer relying on sales to pay my wages
 
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Good idea, and I'm surprised that more developers don't do this. The video game industry has a known failure to account for long-sellers, which is a large part of why games like Dragon Age are the industry's benchmark for success, rather than games like Fallout, despite the latter's ability to establish a franchise so beloved that it spawns new games by different companies a decade later.

Vogel makes most of his money from his back catalogue. It makes a lot of sense to ensure that the back catalogue is always accessible to new players, so that customers can purchase the most recent game and then go work their way through the rest of the catalogue, rather than hitting a brick wall because they've never played a pre-2000 (or hell, a pre-2008) game before.

I just wish that this was standard. It wouldn't take a lot of time (Vogel still manages to produce new games with regularity), and it seems commercially sensible. Look at the number of indies/classics available on Steam - don't tell me that you couldn't recoup costs by updating your old games every few years.

Folks seem to be thinking of this as something that happens INSTEAD of making new games, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that. I'd love to see graphical updates of Deus Ex, System Shock 1/2 - hell, just about anything, so long as they don't fuck with the gameplay. Right now you get companies assraping old franchises because they think it is the only way they can convert a 'valuable franchise' into actual money. Updating old games would stop a lot of that shit, while encouraging companies to innovate with their new games, rather than pumping out CoD clones.

Not to mention how much the industry would benefit from the ability to take a longer-term view in their development plans. Don't you think you'd get better games if companies were thinking 'how can we make a game that people will love in 10, 20 years time?' rather than 'how can we make a game that will sell for 12 months before folks buy a slightly shinier clone?'. If companies were aiming for the next Fallout or Ultima rather than the next Mass Effect?

The updating of games has the potential to cross the number one barrier in the way of games being made with the same artistic vision, love and intelligence as literature - the time-limit imposed by technical innovation. Right now, there's simply no point in a developer setting out to achieve something truly grand, to make the gaming equivalent of Hamlet or the Mona Lisa - in 3 years people will stop buying it, in 10 years it won't run on new computers and in 50 years it will be forgotten about, no matter how good it is. If Vogel's approach was the norm, there'd be a chance to change or that. Maybe the commercial imperatives might stop developers from trying to make gaming's Hamlet (i.e. something loved centuries later), but they could at least have the opportunity to take seriously the aim of making gaming's Citizen Kane.

And fuck, aren't we usually all about complaining how the young folk aren't being introduced to older, better, games?
 

mangsy

Educated
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Mar 28, 2011
Messages
329
Azrael the cat said:
I'd love to see graphical updates of Deus Ex, System Shock 1/2 - hell, just about anything, so long as they don't fuck with the gameplay.

True, but it sounds like Vogel is making gameplay changes. And if Avadon is the point of comparison, I doubt these are changes for the better.

ETA: I do like the graphical improvements. But I've said it before and I'll say it again: for some reason, I find the original version of Exile's graphics to be the best. There was something so old school and cool about them. I still have the original shareware demo on a CD from a Mac gaming magazine circa 1995, so good. :love:
 

syllopsium

Educated
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
67
Updating a game involves changing gameplay in addition to graphics and interface though. If Ultima Underworld was released now it'd need to offer extra guidance. There's simply too many other distaractions to make talking to everyone and examining everyhting viable - at least if you're targeting the mass market.

I'd love updated version of older games, apartfrom the fact my games backlog is huge
 

betamin

Learned
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Mar 28, 2009
Messages
626
Has anyone played Avadon? I'm a big fan of Geneforge and I was considering getting the new shit.
 

syllopsium

Educated
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
67
it's not about what I like - it's about what will sell. UU is a great game but badly needs a graphics and interface overhaul. music isnt that bad even now.

modern players would expect more hints and a real time minimap i suspect.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
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Azrael the cat said:
I'd love to see graphical updates of Deus Ex, System Shock 1/2 - hell, just about anything, so long as they don't fuck with the gameplay.

Die by the Sword and a whole bunch of other first gen 3D games actually would benefit massively from a graphic boost as they've aged so badly that it's almost distracting. It's not about being a graphic whore as I'd be happy with even graphics of the level of 2004's Far Cry, HL2 and Doom 3. An update would certainly help the whole 'immershiun' and 'visceral' nature of the combat that those blocky amalgams of polygons were trying to convey.

Come to think of it, imagine Might and Magic re-done with modern graphics. Why wouldn't it sell a shit ton as it already is quite a simple RPG in terms of mechanics(certainly not more complicated than DA:O), which is what the masses would like but are turned off by the graphics?
 
Unwanted

Atheist

Unwanted
Shitposter
Joined
May 28, 2011
Messages
635
Well you know, the games never really had great writing and I sure have had enough of Vogel's characters always going "greetings and salutations" on me so sup.
 

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