KickStarter BattleTech Pre-Release Thread

[DeepOcean]

Watched the video and I liked the heat management and the initiative system, the basis for fun is in there but needs alot of balancing though, the cover and water bonus especially. The way it is, it would become boring pretty quick to just stand back trading pot shots with the enemy while in cover. The water bonus is just insane for the heavy mechs, maybe the guy didn't use his light mechs well but I don't see much of a point to use light mechs right now. You can't dish out a ton of damage quickly to make good use of their initiative advantage and their armor is thin as paper.

 

[Grotesque]

^50:20 What the fuck is this travesty?

And all those mechs that shoot their load like in a bukakke scene trying to kill that pitiful small mech instead combat being fast, lethal and vicious.
I hope mechs will have limited ammo during missions because otherwise this game will be "another kickstarter success story"

 

[veevoir]

He's shooting at an urbie with shitty hit chances and half dead mechs. It's RNG being RNG.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

And all those mechs that shoot their load like in a bukakke scene trying to kill that pitiful small mech instead combat being fast, lethal and vicious.

First, heat has to be managed or mechs shutdown and become sitting ducks in this game. I found myself opening with an alpha strike with mechs that had a lot of weapons (most if not all weapons fired), then shooting fewer weapons so the mechs wouldn't overheat and/or shutdown. It's def not always an endless bukkake scene.

As for fast and lethal, I think it's a good thing it's not fast and lethal. It makes the mechs seem like they can take a lot of punishment. I play Mechwarrior: Online, the FPS sim, and it's possible to take out just about any mech in that game in seconds, which is kind of crap. It would be more fun if you lasted longer and could stomp into combat and trade a whole bunch of shots, instead of sniping with big guns from a kilometer away. As it is in MW:O, you end up with shit players in 100 tonne assault mechs hiding in fear because the assault mechs can't face much fire.

I hope mechs will have limited ammo during missions because otherwise this game will be "another kickstarter success story"

Pretty sure they have limited ammo.

I've only played about 4 matches, but I feel comfortable saying that the combat isn't that great. I really hope there is more to it, because the options feel really limited. It's like the combat is more about finding a good position where you can focus down one enemy at a time, and heat management, and nothing else. If that's all there is to it, it'll get boring fast.

 

[Grotesque]

It's def not always an endless bukkake scene.

I am not talking about one hit/one kill strikes but this is ridiculous, I've watched 2 streams and in the majority of cases that's what is coming to in the end.

The combat should feel more lethal the closer the range is. (I know melee is found cool and all but it's also retarded and it should be use only on special instances where mechs ran out of ammunition)

Friendly fire should be a serious issue, each AC projectile/beam should be an entity modeled ingame and its damage potential should be reduced the more it had to travel to target.
Missles chance to hit the target would depend to the ability to that's pilot skill and countermeasure and mech's ability at active jamming.





^14:25
the shots hit the mountain side and he still takes damage to the mech.




^ 1:51:21 missle hits friendly mech, no damage
^ 2:19:22 that's not a tactical game. it's an RNG fuckfest masquerading as one

 

[Jason Liang]

As we saw with the Shadowrun trilogy, the more complications were introduced to the combat system, the more pathetic the AI got. For all the hate people have for it, Shadowrun Returns, with the most streamlined and limited combat system, also had the best encounter AI.

Judging from the beta streams, the AI is already helpless. Already I doubt HBS' ability to code AI that can be effective in the current combat system.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I agree that the combat should be more lethal. In the novels, even light mechs were present as capable of dishing out huge punishment under right circumstances, and fights ended rather quickly.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Reminds me of something I read about AI vs human contests and "degrees of freedom", ie: after computers could reliably beat humans at chess, it took a while to do it with Go as there are more possible options. And so on, as future challenges are taken on. And in games like this, if one does a good job implementing all the possible tactical options, then making an AI capable of being competitive with humans is a massive challenge. I guess there's a reason AI's usually "cheat" in PVE games.

In the campaign I guess challenge will be achieved with the usual recipe of being outnumbered/outgunned, or being forced to take on an enemy in an advantageous position. But when multiplayer comes out it will be interesting seeing players try their favourite tactics on each other, as well as getting a real feel for eg: "spotter with sensor lock and an LRM-heavy lance" vs "cluster of brawlers" etc.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

I am not talking about one hit/one kill strikes but this is ridiculous, I've watched 2 streams and in the majority of cases that's what is coming to in the end.

I see what your saying. Yeah, you're right about that. In the matches I've played, I would set up a firing line or kill box, and the AI would filter in one by one because of the turn order design they've implemented (faster mechs move in the first turn, slowest mechs in the fourth turn). So the fastest mechs would move into range of my mechs, as the turns progressed I would have 3-4 mechs firing at that one while the slower enemy mechs would be out of range to do any significant actions. So, obviously, this doesn't bode well for the single player campaign combat. And the worse thing is, combat feels so limited tactically to boot.

The combat should be feel more lethal the closer the range is. (I know melee is found cool and all but it's also retarded and it should be use only on special instances where mechs ran out of ammunition)

Not necessarily. If you know your Battletech weapons you know that they have optimal ranges.

Melee is also used a lot in Battletech lore. In fact, some mechs carry melee weapons like this crazy thing: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Axman

Friendly fire should be a serious issues,

Agreed. This is one of the really disappointing things.

each AC projectile/beam should be an entity modeled ingame and its damage potential should be reduced the more it had to travel to target.
Missles chance to hit the target would depend to the ability to that's pilot skill and countermeasure and mech's ability at active jamming.

Agreed on these too. At the bottom of this post I've added my 2 cents in regards to lasers and autocannons.

^14:25 the shots hit the mountain side and he still takes damage to the mech.
^ 1:51:21 missle hits friendly mech, no damage
^ 2:19:22 that's not a tactical game. it's an RNG fuckfest masquerading as one

Yep, I agree, all of those things are crap. The RNG in particular is my main peeve. I was going to add this to my previous post, but ended up deleting it: It would be better in my opinion if you always did a called shot with certain weapon types, lasers and autocannons, with varying accuracy for them. You would select the component you wish to target and then the RNG would do its thing, hit component, miss, hit adjacent component. The current system just feels like these things don't have targeting systems, which they do.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

I agree that the combat should be more lethal. In the novels, even light mechs were present as capable of dishing out huge punishment under right circumstances, and fights ended rather quickly.

For this game, I just can't agree with that. If they can't make the AI better, the player would wipe the floor with the single player campaign if they could take out enemy mechs with a couple salvos.

Novels are one thing, games are another.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

I see what your saying. Yeah, you're right about that. In the matches I've played, I would set up a firing line or kill box, and the AI would filter in one by one because of the turn order design they've implemented (faster mechs move in the first turn, slowest mechs in the fourth turn). So the fastest mechs would move into range of my mechs, as the turns progressed I would have 3-4 mechs firing at that one while the slower enemy mechs would be out of range to do any significant actions. So, obviously, this doesn't bode well for the single player campaign combat. And the worse thing is, combat feels so limited tactically to boot.

Yep, the AI needs a lot of work when it comes to managing a range of mechs. Funnily enough someone on the BT forums started a thread about an "Atlas challenge", where they modded the costs of the Atlas (easy to do with notepad) so the enemy lance was 4 Atlases, then try to take it out with lighter lances. And the AI manages a lot better when managing 4 mechs that move at the same speed, instead of getting picked-off.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Yep, the AI needs a lot of work when it comes to managing a range of mechs. Funnily enough someone on the BT forums started a thread about an "Atlas challenge", where they modded the costs of the Atlas (easy to do with notepad) so the enemy lance was 4 Atlases, then try to take it out with lighter lances. And the AI manages a lot better when managing 4 mechs that move at the same speed, instead of getting picked-off.

That sounds a little more promising. Hopefully HBS take note and design encounters intelligently.

So, have the autists on those forums figured out what the best dps builds are, taking heat management into account, yet?

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Yep, the AI needs a lot of work when it comes to managing a range of mechs. Funnily enough someone on the BT forums started a thread about an "Atlas challenge", where they modded the costs of the Atlas (easy to do with notepad) so the enemy lance was 4 Atlases, then try to take it out with lighter lances. And the AI manages a lot better when managing 4 mechs that move at the same speed, instead of getting picked-off.

That sounds a little more promising. Hopefully HBS take note and design encounters intelligently.

So, have the autists on those forums figured out what the best dps builds are, taking heat management into account, yet?

Modders checking the game files have seen different AI "roles" for mechs to take on which is supposed to govern their behaviour, but apparently it's not always being assigned properly, so eg: a medium with a couple of LRMs will hang back and think it's an Archer.

The forums are chaotic with millions of new threads, haven't read much of them. Urbies getting some love after the AC bump, water so efficient at getting rid of heat (with less of the usual drawbacks) that Awesomes/Swaybacks come into their own and heading straight for the water is the go-to tactic, people wanting mechlabs to try combinations of ACs - although in the campaign perhaps the cost of ammo will temporarily hinder this approach, but I guess the game has to be balanced for MP too where cost of ammo won't be a factor. Tough to strike a balance for both.

Mediums in general seem pretty good, lots of people expressing concern about using lights given the close-encounters in smallish skirmish maps and the reduced LOS. I think they'll have to make lights more mobile in general, they reduced the movement spread between the fastest and slowest mechs and have perhaps gone too far.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

Yeah, I noticed lights weren't much use in the games I've played. Scouting seems a bit difficult to pull off too.

Anyway, HBS have got a lot of work ahead of them. My fingers are crossed. I'm craving a good Battletech game.

 

[Infinitron]

Question for people playing the beta - what is its appid? https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20...powered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3729-WFJZ-4175

 

[Black]

My fingers are crossed

As long as you're not holding your breath. I doubt they can deliver. Especially since nowadays beta essentially means "we're almost done so here's a demo for our backers".

 

[Alienman]

This game just fell of the wish-list. Maybe I'll buy it if the campaign is super good but I doubt it.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Watching a lot of beta videos I notice mostly two things:

1) there seems to be a pretty noticeable lack of tactical options and
2) all the guys who play it have a ton of fun and can't seem to recommend the game enough

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I guess I'll just wait and see how the final product turns out.

 

[veevoir]

Watching a lot of beta videos I notice mostly two things:

1) there seems to be a pretty noticeable lack of tactical options and
2) all the guys who play it have a ton of fun and can't seem to recommend the game enough

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I guess I'll just wait and see how the final product turns out.

Well, it's not that the current average gamer needs depth/actual thinking for enjoyment.

However all other complains I see here (aside from physical bullet tracing which HBS already mention will not happen and it's also the reason for shooting-through-shit animation glitches) are fixed with balance tweaks and a bit of AI refinement to handle mixed bag of mechs.

As for the mechs being a bit of bullet sponges: come to think of it - considering in campaign you need to blow up a lot of enemies (and not always 4 vs 4) this may be intended.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Question for people playing the beta - what is its appid? https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20...powered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3729-WFJZ-4175

Sorry, avoiding playing the beta for now (become wary of burning out on games before they even finished), watching a couple of videos and following the more interesting discussions is enough for me right now, But is 637090 an overall id for the game, not the beta one you're after?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/637090/discussions/

 

[Infinitron]

No, the beta appears to be a separate Steam app.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

From looking at the video it doesn't seem that bullets and rockets are actual projectiles

One mech took damage even if all the rockets fired right into a tree-line.

Yeah, first thing I noticed, they only seem to be cosmetic effects with calculations done in the background. So no stray shots hitting something else, meh.

Actually missed shot do hit other things (like buildings) and they blow them up. But that is all cosmetic.

What I watched of the game so far, it is hide in forest and camp gameplay. Game needs a easy way to put the forest on fire and do damage to mechs hiding there.

Think it would be enough to add some heat to them each round for standing in a burning forest. :D

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

From looking at the video it doesn't seem that bullets and rockets are actual projectiles

One mech took damage even if all the rockets fired right into a tree-line.

Yeah, first thing I noticed, they only seem to be cosmetic effects with calculations done in the background. So no stray shots hitting something else, meh.

Actually missed shot do hit other things (like buildings) and they blow them up. But that is all cosmetic.

What I watched of the game so far, it is hide in forest and camp gameplay. Game needs a easy way to put the forest on fire and do damage to mechs hiding there.

Think it would be enough to add some heat to them each round for standing in a burning forest. :D

Do forests catch fire in this game?

 

[Kev Inkline]

From looking at the video it doesn't seem that bullets and rockets are actual projectiles

One mech took damage even if all the rockets fired right into a tree-line.

Yeah, first thing I noticed, they only seem to be cosmetic effects with calculations done in the background. So no stray shots hitting something else, meh.

Actually missed shot do hit other things (like buildings) and they blow them up. But that is all cosmetic.

What I watched of the game so far, it is hide in forest and camp gameplay. Game needs a easy way to put the forest on fire and do damage to mechs hiding there.

Think it would be enough to add some heat to them each round for standing in a burning forest. :D

From 1991 MechForce (Amiga release) manual:

Fire: Energy and Missile weapons can start forest fires. Moving or stopping in a forest fire adds a 6 points of heat per second to your mech, and the smoke adds three points on all hit rolls. Move at half normal rate.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Titans of Steel has forest fires and heat that is caused because of those too.

So did Crescent Hawk's Inception.

Pity if HBS didn't manage to include that mechanic.