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Baldur's Gate Beamdog's Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 Enhanced Editions

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
First of all - keep those spoilers under a tag, he is playing for the first time. Second - with SCS those scrolls won't work against the most powerful undead anyway. (or at least they shouldn't, from what I recall, but I had the BG2 challenges installed)

Roger that, but it isn't quite a secret. All he has to do is walk to a scroll shop and browse through the list to find it.

Now I can't edit the previous message :(
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,474
Location
California
killed firkragg on novice on my second try but I have an older save and i'm trying to take him out on normal. having a hard time countering the bastard's panic spell (using Command) but it's a fun challenge. i wanted to test muh skills on him since i forgot to try the shadow dragon on normal
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
First of all - keep those spoilers under a tag, he is playing for the first time. Second - with SCS those scrolls won't work against the most powerful undead anyway. (or at least they shouldn't, from what I recall, but I had the BG2 challenges installed)

Roger that, but it isn't quite a secret. All he has to do is walk to a scroll shop and browse through the list to find it.

Now I can't edit the previous message :(
Sorry, didn't mean to sound so harsh. I didn't mean the scroll, but the "Kindersurprise!" enemy. (he used to cause a lot of raging on BG2 boards back then :lol:)
killed firkragg on novice on my second try but I have an older save and i'm trying to take him out on normal. having a hard time countering the bastard's panic spell (using Command) but it's a fun challenge. i wanted to test muh skills on him since i forgot to try the shadow dragon on normal
There are two spells that protect from fear effects, the cleric one is first level, the wizard - second level, I think. You're still good for a first-timer, considering you are going against an SCS dragon. The original lizards were much easier.
 

Somberlain

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
6,202
Location
Basement
killed firkragg on novice on my second try but I have an older save and i'm trying to take him out on normal. having a hard time countering the bastard's panic spell (using Command) but it's a fun challenge. i wanted to test muh skills on him since i forgot to try the shadow dragon on normal

Level 1 priest spell Remove Fear is the basic protection from fear. Despite the name it doesn't just remove fear, it makes you immune to it and lasts for over an hour, so you can just have it active at all times.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,474
Location
California
thanks guys. beat him on "normal" after 3 tries. surrounding him helps a bit. that remove fear helped a lot. still have to learn how to properly lower magic resistance (find if there's a mage/priest way of doing it) aside from the green scrolls.

that about wraps up all of my sidequests for Act 2.

i feel pretty confident now/getting used to things so I'm raising it up to "normal"
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,764
thanks guys. beat him on "normal" after 3 tries. surrounding him helps a bit. that remove fear helped a lot. still have to learn how to properly lower magic resistance (find if there's a mage/priest way of doing it) aside from the green scrolls.

that about wraps up all of my sidequests for Act 2.

i feel pretty confident now/getting used to things so I'm raising it up to "normal"
The 5th level wizard spell Lower Resistance is what you want. The 1-2-3 punch for a lot of those spell resistant monsters is:
secret word -> lower resistance -> greater malison
Then you take them to pound town with hasted melee.
 

Somberlain

Arcane
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Basement
thanks guys. beat him on "normal" after 3 tries. surrounding him helps a bit. that remove fear helped a lot. still have to learn how to properly lower magic resistance (find if there's a mage/priest way of doing it) aside from the green scrolls.

that about wraps up all of my sidequests for Act 2.

i feel pretty confident now/getting used to things so I'm raising it up to "normal"
The 5th level wizard spell Lower Resistance is what you want. The 1-2-3 punch for a lot of those spell resistant monsters is:
secret word -> lower resistance -> greater malison
Then you take them to pound town with hasted melee.

(This is mostly for Ivan since I'm sure you know this already)

Secret Word just removes spell protections, it does nothing to naturally spell-resistant monsters that don't use any. But yeah, Lower Resist should be cast first on dragons, preferably twice, because of their high magic resistance. Then, Greater Malice to lower their saves. GM is an AoE spell though, and it's great in any difficult battle.

Also, if you use SCS and find it too tedious or difficult to strip enemy spell defences one at a time, Dispel Magic and Remove Magic are your best friend. They are AoE and can dispel every magic effect from the targets. However, they are level based so using them against high-level enemies has very little chance of working. On the bright side, they work almost always against low-mid level enemies, which is a great way to deal with those pesky low-mid level casters that aren't that dangerous but can be really annoying. Remove Magic effects only enemies and Dispel Magic effects everyone.

Haer'Dalis, due to thieves and bards getting levels faster than other classes, makes an excellent Remove Magic user and a buffer.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
6,764
thanks guys. beat him on "normal" after 3 tries. surrounding him helps a bit. that remove fear helped a lot. still have to learn how to properly lower magic resistance (find if there's a mage/priest way of doing it) aside from the green scrolls.

that about wraps up all of my sidequests for Act 2.

i feel pretty confident now/getting used to things so I'm raising it up to "normal"
The 5th level wizard spell Lower Resistance is what you want. The 1-2-3 punch for a lot of those spell resistant monsters is:
secret word -> lower resistance -> greater malison
Then you take them to pound town with hasted melee.

(This is mostly for Ivan since I'm sure you know this already)

Secret Word just removes spell protections, it does nothing to naturally spell-resistant monsters that don't use any. But yeah, Lower Resist should be cast first on dragons, preferably twice, because of their high magic resistance. Then, Greater Malice to lower their saves. GM is an AoE spell though, and it's great in any difficult battle.

Also, if you use SCS and find it too tedious or difficult to strip enemy spell defences one at a time, Dispel Magic and Remove Magic are your best friend. They are AoE and can dispel every magic effect from the targets. However, they are level based so using them against high-level enemies has very little chance of working. On the bright side, they work almost always against low-mid level enemies, which is a great way to deal with those pesky low-mid level casters that aren't that dangerous but can be really annoying. Remove Magic effects only enemies and Dispel Magic effects everyone.

Haer'Dalis, due to thieves and bards getting levels faster than other classes, makes an excellent Remove Magic user and a buffer.
All good points, and Ivan, that's why I recommended the first spell that I did in my spoiler, to deal with spell protections. Lower Resistance can be turned / reflected / adsorbed like any other 5th level spell. It's also an AOE spell, which is convenient. Once you're higher level, Pierce Magic is also a good sub for Secret Word if you're only facing a single spell-shielded opponent, since it lowers their MR while dispelling a spell protection.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,474
Location
California
this is my current party lineup:
Jaheira, Kalderon, Minsc, Yojimbo, Aerie.

The only quest I can't do before proceesing is the Lich you awaken (get instaraped by his Imprisonment spam). Will save that for later. Also, what's Warden's Keep? Is it like Durlag's Tower? Save it for last?
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
this is my current party lineup:
Jaheira, Kalderon, Minsc, Yojimbo, Aerie.

The only quest I can't do before proceesing is the Lich you awaken. Will save that for later. Also, what's Warden's Keep? Is it like Durlag's Tower? Save it for last?
Watcher's Keep is a dungeon crawl like Durlag's Tower, added by the throne of Bhaal expansion. I would advise against doing it before ToB, however, because while it can be accessed in Soa, it really isn't balanced for a low to mid-level party. some of the enemies there are very, very high level.

edit: I see you have Keldorn in your party - his dispel magic is cast at twice his level, so it's probably your best bet for removing enemy protections. Also, what agris & Somberlain have written is good advice for any party led by a wizard. What SCS changes from unmodded game is that breach no longer removes (almost) everything, but now it works on liches, which is a fair exchange, imo.
What breach does remove are combat protections like stoneskin. It can be stopped, however, by spell protections like spell turning, which is why you need to cast spells like secret word first. (alternatively known as playing strip poker with SCS wizards :lol:)
Most commonly used spell removers:
- spell thrust - removes minor spell deflection/turning, minor globe of invulnerability, spell immunity (unless it's SI: abjuration), I think also spell shield though it shouldn't (?),
- secret word - removes spell deflection, turning, globe, spell shield, spell immunity,
- ruby ray of reversal - useful for one thing: removing SI: abjuration (works, because ruby ray is an alteration spell).
edit2: actually, ruby ray also removes spell trap, so it's useful for two things. Not many wizards can cast spell trap, though.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,152
First level is doable for a mostly green party and has some really nifty equipment. Second level isn't too bad either though I can't recall any amazing equipment there. Beyond there it gets harder and is worth leaving until you are in ToB or ready to finish SoA.
 

Orobis

Arcane
Sychophantic Noob
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
1,066
Good choice taking Keldorn, he is IMO the best NPC in the game to bring along esp in SCS, his True Seeing kit spell is extremely useful considering every mage and their grandmothers all love to cast invisibility spells of all kinds which gets annoying rather quick. True seeing also destroys images as well.

And the best part about Keldorn's class kit spells: They are cast Instantly. Keldorn is a bit weak when you first get him but once properly kitted out he is unstoppable, his true seeing is much more useful than dispel magic for an SCS game imo.

Khelben's Warding Whip is also really good for stripping spell protections once you get access to lvl 7 spells, 1 on the initial cast and 2 more over 2 rounds (1 per round) 3 in total.
 

Somberlain

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
6,202
Location
Basement
Another SCS tip: some enemy casters use Spell Immunity: Divination in conjunction with invisibility and other illusion spells, so True Seeing won't work on them. Thief skill Detect Illusions (100 points makes it work every time) acts like True Seeing, ie. it dispels all enemy illusions in range every round, and it bypasses spell defences, since it's not magic. You can't attack while you're using it though, but it also cannot be dispelled like True Seeing.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,764
Another SCS tip: some enemy casters use Spell Immunity: Divination in conjunction with invisibility and other illusion spells, so True Seeing won't work on them. Thief skill Detect Illusions (100 points makes it work every time) acts like True Seeing, ie. it dispels all enemy illusions in range every round, and it bypasses spell defences, since it's not magic. You can't attack while you're using it though, but it also cannot be dispelled like True Seeing.
Do you know the range around the thief for which that works? If you've read about it in more detail, please drop a link to the thread.
 

Orobis

Arcane
Sychophantic Noob
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
1,066
Spell Immunity: Divination in conjunction with invisibility and other illusion spells, so True Seeing won't work on them.
This is true, but it's rare to run into this combo, and if you do, that's why you bring Keldorn, his dispel magic and true seeing means no mage can hide from you regardless what they cast. Keldorn's true seeing lasts a minute so you always cast that first than if they have Spell Immunity: Divination you throw down a keldorn dispel magic which casts at 2x level and the next round true seeing will tick and remove any illusions or invisibility.

Just pray you don't come across the dreaded SI:divination AND abjuration stacked together, only glitterdust and ruby ray will help you there, or better yet just bomb them with fireball and skulltrap, or wait for the SI spells to ware off they don't last too long.

Using a thief with the dispel illusions is kind of a pain in the ass to use cause you have to wait for it to tick and it's not guaranteed to work when it does (though neither is dispel magic) and the mage is usually running around everywhere and i'm not sure of it's range, but if you do decide to use this method Jan is best for this.

The fact that Keldorn casts his spells instantly is what makes him the better option instead of fumbling around with a thief with detect illusions.

Oh and don't pick the option in SCS to nerf Keldorn's Dispel Magic from 2x to regular otherwise it will be almost useless, pretty much all Mages that you fight in BG2 SCS will be 2-3 times you're level (lvls 18-30).
 

LizardWizard

Cipher
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
991
Oh and don't pick the option in SCS to nerf Keldorn's Dispel Magic from 2x to regular otherwise it will be almost useless, pretty much all Mages that you fight in BG2 SCS will be 2-3 times you're level (lvls 18-30).

Nah, I always nerf that as it turns the game into babbymode. You don't need Keldorn's cheesiness for SCS unless you're super lazy I guess. You can easily build Haer'dalis into anti-mage murdergod and he can also use carsomyr, at the cost of a bit more micro.
 

Somberlain

Arcane
Zionist Agent
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Basement
Keldorn is definitely an awesome anti-mage character but I never use him since I usually play with an evil party.

Another SCS tip: some enemy casters use Spell Immunity: Divination in conjunction with invisibility and other illusion spells, so True Seeing won't work on them. Thief skill Detect Illusions (100 points makes it work every time) acts like True Seeing, ie. it dispels all enemy illusions in range every round, and it bypasses spell defences, since it's not magic. You can't attack while you're using it though, but it also cannot be dispelled like True Seeing.
Do you know the range around the thief for which that works? If you've read about it in more detail, please drop a link to the thread.

Range is 30 feet, according to the in-game description.

While True Seeing is more powerful in most situations, I've always preferred Detect Illusions since it can be used infinitely, has no casting time, cannot be protected against and cannot be dispelled.
 

Orobis

Arcane
Sychophantic Noob
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
1,066
ah, I always nerf that as it turns the game into babbymode. You don't need Keldorn's cheesiness for SCS unless you're super lazy I guess.
The first 2 SCS playthrough's i did than i realised other methods are redundant/superfluous, it's just more unnecessary clicking tedium, i mean wtf else do you have to prove once you play through SCS twice with grognard settings?

Really, you're just making the game more tedious not harder by doing that. And i also like to play with Spell Revisions which makes it even more difficult.

And what settings do you use for dragons to get carsomyr so early in the game? Cause with my setting you're not killing a single dragon until chapter 6.
 

LizardWizard

Cipher
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
991
ah, I always nerf that as it turns the game into babbymode. You don't need Keldorn's cheesiness for SCS unless you're super lazy I guess.
The first 2 SCS playthrough's i did than i realised other methods are redundant/superfluous, it's just more unnecessary clicking tedium, i mean wtf else do you have to prove once you play through SCS twice with grognard settings?

Really, you're just making the game more tedious not harder by doing that. And i also like to play with Spell Revisions which makes it even more difficult.

And what settings do you use for dragons to get carsomyr so early in the game? Cause with my setting you're not killing a single dragon until chapter 6.

If it's tedious for you why even play SCS? The extra clicks don't bother me at all because I enjoy the combat and added difficulty by not abusing one of most derpy abilities in the game.
 

Orobis

Arcane
Sychophantic Noob
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
1,066
If it's tedious for you why even play SCS?
For the difficulty not the tedium, tedium does not equate to difficulty, this is a fallacy my friend. Like i said already, played through twice with the nerf Keldorns abilities settings, at this point there is nothing left to prove.

If you enjoy all that extra tedium to accomplish the same outcome than all the power to you bro :salute:
 

LizardWizard

Cipher
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
991
If it's tedious for you why even play SCS?
For the difficulty not the tedium, tedium does not equate to difficulty, this is a fallacy my friend. Like i said i already, played through twice with the nerf Keldorns abilities settings, at this point there is nothing left to prove.

If you enjoy all that extra tedium to accomplish the same outcome than all the power to you bro :salute:

Nice strawman bruh :salute:

Tedium is subjective. For me, using Kelderp makes the experience unsatisfying and less difficult in terms of how you approach encounters.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,474
Location
California
I'm kinda curious, since I've spent so much time completing all of these sidequests, will further acts bring even more quests/areas? I feel like I've cleaned most of it. I'll be gone for the weekend. I need a good break from this. Shit's addicting as fuck.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,152
There's no arbitrary plot point at which a bunch of new side quests open up or anything. A few wilderness areas do IIRC, but otherwise most of the game's optional content is available without progressing the plot much. There's a bunch of quest chains (mostly stronghold and companion stuff) that have an invisible timer before you get the next segment, so if you are out of town for a while you'll probably have a few things to do when you come back.
 

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