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BG2 run, Kensai/Mage dual or Fighter/Illusionist

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
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Pathfinder: Wrath
I kept him inside the entrance of the tent and put Kagain to tank near the stairs, only letting Edwin out when he had clear LoS to chug a few fireballs. You can also cast invis on him and gg.
 

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
What about a cleric/illusionist multi class ?
A lot of people think that the Cleric/Mage multiclass takes too long to mature. Especially during Shadows of Amn. However, I do think its an interesting class with interesting choices. Especially as you use Cleric spell slots to complement areas from the Mage ones. For an example, at level 1 you might memorize a few Commands instead of Sleep or Blindness. They are good enough to break quite a few strong individuals at the beginning. Later on, at level ~15 you'll use your Cleric spell slots to memorize Animate Dead (for the Skeleton Warrior) instead of the Mage ones. Further, there's the possibility of putting Cleric spells in contingencies and triggers, like instantly combining Greater Malison and Doom. Plus, the absurd levels of WIS you can reach with the tomes and other bonuses is icing on the cake.

Only thing I hate is you can only multi-specialize a Mage with a gnome, which isn't even a legal ruling from AD&D. So you lose the highest possible bonuses of WIS.

Edwin is the best mage in the game, including your PC.

God I hate that so much. All the other characters have illegal and special bonuses that are nifty tricks. Only Edwin gets to be objectively better at his class than anybody else.
 

Luckmann

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Kensai/Mage is hands-down the most powerful combo I've ever played, other than perhaps the Archer/Cleric combo. It also happened to be the first class I played for Baldur's Gate 2.
 

Makabb

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Kensai/Mage is hands-down the most powerful combo I've ever played, other than perhaps the Archer/Cleric combo. It also happened to be the first class I played for Baldur's Gate 2.

berserker/mage might be better because you get immunites to few annoying spells like maze/imprisinoment which make high level battles so much easier
 

Luckmann

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Kensai/Mage is hands-down the most powerful combo I've ever played, other than perhaps the Archer/Cleric combo. It also happened to be the first class I played for Baldur's Gate 2.

berserker/mage might be better because you get immunites to few annoying spells like maze/imprisinoment which make high level battles so much easier
With practically any other combination, you'd have to prepare defenses for those anyway. So yeah, sure, on a few select encounters, Berserker is hands-down better than Kensai, including the Mind Flayer "city". But outside of those, I always felt that the Kensai was better, and no worse off than any other class when it comes to things like Maze/Imprisonment.

When going solo, you're probably right, though - Berserker may be well worth it. I didn't take that into account until just now.
 

ga♥

Arcane
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Noone suggesting fighter/mage/thief? Hmmm...Why?

You miss a lot without the thief part, traps, shit you can't open...and use any item.
 

ga♥

Arcane
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Messages
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Noone suggesting fighter/mage/thief? Hmmm...Why?

Because that character is always a utility type. Never the best fighter or mage. Don't even think you can legally cast 9th lvl spells with that combo.

You need to remove the XP cap yeah... but that was in place for parties to begin with, otherwise you reach it half game (if i recall correctly?).
Game wasn't meant to be played solo anyway.
You don't even need to fight with spike traps... and that's considered legal.

without XP cap, use any item makes you the best fighter for any situation.
 
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Ziem

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May 17, 2014
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324
God I hate that so much. All the other characters have illegal and special bonuses that are nifty tricks. Only Edwin gets to be objectively better at his class than anybody else.
Technically he's not strictly better, his +2 spells per spell level costs an amulet slot (which basically means that he can't use the amulet of power)

Archer/Cleric
Archer is the one ranger kit which can't really dual into cleric since it would prevent you from using bows/crossbows, lol
 

Delterius

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Technically he's not strictly better, his +2 spells per spell level costs an amulet slot (which basically means that he can't use the amulet of power)
He is a Mage with way more firepower than a Sorcerer. Where a regular specialist would get 6 slots, Edwin has 8. When a Sorcerer is one school level behind, Edwin is always on top of his game. And if a Sorcerer can tailor his casts according to short term needs, Edwin can outcast them any time of day while using whatever spell is best for his level, wether they scale or not. Plus, they even gave him some illegal spells for his specialization which, coincidentially, already has less forbidden spells than others. With the Robe of Vecna he's objectively than any other Mage would be, regardless of the other situational bonuses from the Amulet of Power. The point being that Edwin is better at being a Mage than any other spellcaster in the realms stands and if that is not strictly better than nothing really is.
 

hell bovine

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Technically he's not strictly better, his +2 spells per spell level costs an amulet slot (which basically means that he can't use the amulet of power)
He is a Mage with way more firepower than a Sorcerer. Where a regular specialist would get 6 slots, Edwin has 8. When a Sorcerer is one school level behind, Edwin is always on top of his game. And if a Sorcerer can tailor his casts according to short term needs, Edwin can outcast them any time of day while using whatever spell is best for his level, wether they scale or not.
At higher levels (20+), the wonky implementation of clone spells means that the sorcerer gets ahead of any mage (except maybe for wild mages, because nrd is even wonkier than project image). It becomes less about "short-term needs", and more about being able to cast every spell at the same time by using multiple images, while one of those images is wish-spamming for rest. You can't pull the same trick with Eddie, no matter his spell slots.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I was mostly talking about BG1, where the Amulet of Power and Robe of Vecna, and even sorcerers, aren't factors. He's objectively the best mage in-game in that scenario.
 

ArchAngel

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Mar 16, 2015
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Kensai/Mage is hands-down the most powerful combo I've ever played, other than perhaps the Archer/Cleric combo. It also happened to be the first class I played for Baldur's Gate 2.

berserker/mage might be better because you get immunites to few annoying spells like maze/imprisinoment which make high level battles so much easier
Nah, you got Spell Immunity spell to handle battles where they like to cast Maze or Imprisonment.
 

Luckmann

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God I hate that so much. All the other characters have illegal and special bonuses that are nifty tricks. Only Edwin gets to be objectively better at his class than anybody else.
Technically he's not strictly better, his +2 spells per spell level costs an amulet slot (which basically means that he can't use the amulet of power)

Archer/Cleric
Archer is the one ranger kit which can't really dual into cleric since it would prevent you from using bows/crossbows, lol
The bonus still applies to Slings (or any other ranged weapon), and the goal here is to access both Druid and Cleric spells.

That being said, a Beastmaster/Cleric is likely better for a solo run. You still end up with both the Ranger and the Cleric spell lists, but more importantly, you get to cast Animal Summoning I as a level 1 spell (normally level 4), Animal Summoning II as a level 2 spell (normally level 5), and Animal Summoning III as a level 3 spell (normally level 6). This is extremely powerful for the levels you get it at, for a full caster such as a Cleric. On top of that, you get Find Familiar.

If one was playing Baldur's Gate->Baldur's Gate II, I don't think I'd ever run a pure Cleric, assuming I was human. At the very least, I'd take Beastmaster and then switch over to Cleric at first opportunity.
 

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
Technically he's not strictly better, his +2 spells per spell level costs an amulet slot (which basically means that he can't use the amulet of power)
He is a Mage with way more firepower than a Sorcerer. Where a regular specialist would get 6 slots, Edwin has 8. When a Sorcerer is one school level behind, Edwin is always on top of his game. And if a Sorcerer can tailor his casts according to short term needs, Edwin can outcast them any time of day while using whatever spell is best for his level, wether they scale or not.
At higher levels (20+), the wonky implementation of clone spells means that the sorcerer gets ahead of any mage (except maybe for wild mages, because nrd is even wonkier than project image). It becomes less about "short-term needs", and more about being able to cast every spell at the same time by using multiple images, while one of those images is wish-spamming for rest. You can't pull the same trick with Eddie, no matter his spell slots.
So Eddie is objectively better than everyone until the end of the trilogy? Everyone can use Project Image and the Spell Trap exploit.
 

hell bovine

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Secret Level
Technically he's not strictly better, his +2 spells per spell level costs an amulet slot (which basically means that he can't use the amulet of power)
He is a Mage with way more firepower than a Sorcerer. Where a regular specialist would get 6 slots, Edwin has 8. When a Sorcerer is one school level behind, Edwin is always on top of his game. And if a Sorcerer can tailor his casts according to short term needs, Edwin can outcast them any time of day while using whatever spell is best for his level, wether they scale or not.
At higher levels (20+), the wonky implementation of clone spells means that the sorcerer gets ahead of any mage (except maybe for wild mages, because nrd is even wonkier than project image). It becomes less about "short-term needs", and more about being able to cast every spell at the same time by using multiple images, while one of those images is wish-spamming for rest. You can't pull the same trick with Eddie, no matter his spell slots.
So Eddie is objectively better than everyone until the end of the trilogy? Everyone can use Project Image and the Spell Trap exploit.
Level 20 isn't necessarily the end of trilogy, this depends on the party size. (I prefer only three, actually, because of pathfinding) Though it is certainly very useful at the end, when playing SCS/Ascension. :lol:
But no, you can't emulate the project image/wish spam with project image/spelltrap, because - apart from resting which affects the whole party - wish & limited wish deliver the 'nuclear bunny bomb'. (Which happens to be the most firepower you can reach with a sorcerer in BG2. Managed to break the game with it once. :D)
 
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Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
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Scandinavia
I kept him inside the entrance of the tent and put Kagain to tank near the stairs, only letting Edwin out when he had clear LoS to chug a few fireballs. You can also cast invis on him and gg.

Man, Kagain.

I always hated how Baldur's Gate II ditched all the good CNPC:s in favour of a handful I didn't even like, except perhaps Edwin (and maybe, just maybe, Viconia).

Eldoth, Kagain, Garrick, Xan, Kivan; most of my favourite characters didn't even get mentions. Instead we get Jaheira and Minsc, the bottom of the fucking barrel.

This will forever piss me off to no end.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
Man, Kagain.

I always hated how Baldur's Gate II ditched all the good CNPC:s in favour of a handful I didn't even like, except perhaps Edwin (and maybe, just maybe, Viconia).

Eldoth, Kagain, Garrick, Xan, Kivan; most of my favourite characters didn't even get mentions. Instead we get Jaheira and Minsc, the bottom of the fucking barrel.

This will forever piss me off to no end.

Definitely, I run mostly with evil parties in BG1 because they put on an air of competency and aren't pussies. I have no idea how they decided who to include in BG2, but Jaheira and Minsc really do scrape the bottom of the barrel. I know Imoen was in because she was a "fan favorite", but I have no idea about the others.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
Minsc is by far the most memorable and favorite companion from BG1 and BG2 for most of the players.
 

AngryKobold

Arcane
Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Messages
534
Isn't fighter/mage possibly THE WORST choice in all D&D games, both PnP and cRPGs? Varranted to be unsuccesful as both mage and fighter.

Mage levels: slow progression of every stat relevant for fighter: THAC0 / Base hit and save throws; the lowest hit dice in game. In 2e games: inability to use armor or to use armor and to cast spells, in 3e games: armor penalties and waste of feats to reduce it.

Warrior levels: VERY SLOW progression as a mage. Player going to face powerful wizards at higher level while being stuck at low spellcasting level.

Maybe with some combo of items (don't remember the item set from BG)... but then, the same character as single class makes better use of it.

The only succesful implementation of fighter/mage I have ever seen is Dak'Kon from PST. And it's only because of SPECIAL items, so overpowered it's close to cheating.
 

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