BioShock and Quicksaving AKA CyberP Returns

[Ash]

God damn it, KKKodex. Yes, Bioshock (ALL of them, including 2) are, well, lackluster to say the very least. A game of whack-a-mole can be more demanding. Yet you show this man such relentless disrespect when he has merely been doing exactly what the rest of his comrades have been doing since the fall of Rome. System Shock 2 is uncompromising masterclass in game design. It'd take more than selling out to override the respect I have for that.

 

[Nuclear Explosion]

God damn it, KKKodex. Yes, Bioshock (ALL of them, including 2) are, well, lackluster to say the very least. A game of whack-a-mole can be more demanding.

Bioshock 2 has undeniably better combat (that is, core gameplay) than SS2. Also, fun, engaging gameplay is more important than difficulty.

Yet you show this man such relentless disrespect when he has merely been doing exactly what the rest of his comrades have been doing since the fall of Rome. System Shock 2 is uncompromising masterclass in game design. It'd take more than selling out to override the respect I have for that.

SS2 is not an "uncompromising masterclass in game design" because it has a ton of problems. AFAIK Levine was primarily involved in just the narrative aspects of SS2; most likely what you like about SS2 he had very little to do with.

 

[Lhynn]

Bioshock 2 has undeniably better combat (that is, core gameplay) than SS2. Also, fun, engaging gameplay is more important than difficulty.

You are confusing combat with gameplay experience there champ. SS2 had lot more going for itself than combat. bioshock 2 didnt. And it was shitty at the only thing it did better, so meh.

 

[Ash]

You are confusing combat with gameplay experience there champ. SS2 had lot more going for itself than combat. bioshock 2 didnt. And it was shitty at the only thing it did better, so meh.

:Brofist:

 

[Nuclear Explosion]

You are confusing combat with gameplay experience there champ. SS2 had lot more going for itself than combat. bioshock 2 didnt. And it was shitty at the only thing it did better, so meh.

SS2 has atmosphere and level design going for it, neither of which are gameplay. SS2 is a shooter with stats so it having poor gunplay is a huge flaw. Additionally, what exactly do you mean by "gameplay experience."

Anyway, aside from combat, Bioshock 2 also has far more consistent level design, an enjoyable hacking mini-game, and a plot that doesn't fall to pieces in the last third or so.

 

[Ash]

Additionally, what exactly do you mean by "gameplay experience".

Level design, puzzles, platforming, combat, orienteering, strategy, potential consequence for death, environmental hazards, resource distribution, then the little things like passcode-locked doors.

Bioshock (any) had very little of any of this, or what it did have was lackluster. Modern real time games in a nutshell.

 

[Metro]

You are confusing combat with gameplay experience there champ. SS2 had lot more going for itself than combat. bioshock 2 didnt. And it was shitty at the only thing it did better, so meh.

SS2 has atmosphere and level design going for it, neither of which are gameplay. SS2 is a shooter with stats so it having poor gunplay is a huge flaw. Additionally, what exactly do you mean by "gameplay experience".

Anyway, aside from combat, Bioshock 2 also has far more consistent level design, an enjoyable hacking mini-game, and a plot that doesn't fall to pieces in the last third or so.

Jaesun

Possibly retarded tag might be needed.

 

[Lhynn]

SS2 has atmosphere and level design going for it, neither of which are gameplay. SS2 is a shooter with stats so it having poor gunplay is a huge flaw. Additionally, what exactly do you mean by "gameplay experience".

I mean that its not onedimensional as fuck, you have skills, perks in the form of upgrades, a fucking inventory system.

Anyway, aside from combat, Bioshock 2 also has far more consistent level design

Nonsense, SS2 was designed in a way that makes sense as a livable space, its one of the biggest strengths of the game.

an enjoyable hacking mini-game

Lul

and a plot that doesn't fall to pieces in the last third or so.

So its a storyfags game?

 

[Nuclear Explosion]

Nonsense, SS2 was designed in a way that makes sense as a livable space, its one of the biggest strengths of the game.

The Von Braun section is better than anything in Bioshock 2, but after that the level design declines heavily. On the other hand, Bioshock 2's level design is decent for pretty much the whole game. Anyway, fun is more important than if the level design "makes sense as a livable space." For example, SS1's levels are more enjoyable and consistent and they don't "make sense as a livable space."

Lul

It's better than SS2's degenerate hacking mini-game.

So its a storyfags game?

No.

 

[ArchAngel]

God damn it, KKKodex. Yes, Bioshock (ALL of them, including 2) are, well, lackluster to say the very least. A game of whack-a-mole can be more demanding. Yet you show this man such relentless disrespect when he has merely been doing exactly what the rest of his comrades have been doing since the fall of Rome. System Shock 2 is uncompromising masterclass in game design. It'd take more than selling out to override the respect I have for that.

I never played SS2, can anyone compare it to Deus Ex 1 which I loved?

 

[Roguey]

I never played SS2, can anyone compare it to Deus Ex 1 which I loved?

An old post of mine:

Their systems are awful. Both have good level design, and are pretty decent about distributing resources during the early game (Deus Ex less so since it's much longer). Sneaking around and headshotting/exploding fuckers feels better in Deus Ex

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Don't listen to Roguey, SS2 is great (perhaps less than SS1 though). The two games are better than Deus Ex nevertheless.

 

[Roguey]

My opinion is actually more in-line with the Codex consensus http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453 (they're not role playing games though)

 

[toro]

Don't listen to Roguey, SS2 is great (perhaps less than SS1 though). The two games are better than Deus Ex nevertheless.

I still remember finishing Deus Ex and being floored by it and then starting SS2 ... I could not believe how good it was. At first I refused to acknowledge that SS2 is better but by the end of the game I had no choice. Good times.

 

[Roguey]

How could you acknowledge that after the linear combatfest that is the endgame :\

 

[hajro]

Arx Fatalis shits on both Deus ex and SS2 stop memeing

 

[Ash]

How could you acknowledge that after the linear combatfest that is the endgame :\

We spend the first 2/3's of the game being little scavenging whores, the remaining third acts as a test of all our strategics and skills up 'till that point. It all gets a little more intense, combat, platforming, orienteering (having to find all the eggs). The levels remain open, just less so. They are still rather well designed and each room provides a unique challenge. I think the change of pacing is rather fitting for the gameplay and plot.
I too used to bash these levels but they really aren't that bad.

Also, shitting on these game's systems isn't very smart. They're outstanding though flawed.

Arx Fatalis shits on both Deus ex and SS2 stop memeing

Hearing that is a first. Only on the Codex!
I love Arx too, dearly, but it is a small step or two behind the true greatness of Shock 2 and Deus Ex. Great effort though and it makes my top ten game list. Love it.

 

[toro]

How could you acknowledge that after the linear combatfest that is the endgame :\

I agree that SS2 endgame is shit (especially the corridors leading to The Many and facing Shodan at the end) but everything before that was great (if not exceptional in some places).

Overall, I felt that SS2 provided a better experience than DX and that's probably thanks to the survival-horror atmosphere. Anyway, it's not a big deal. I love both games ... with extra incline for SS2

 

[Roguey]

We spend the first 2/3's of the game being little scavenging whores, the remaining third acts as a test of all our strategics and skills up 'till that point.

On normal difficulty it's really more like half.

The levels remain open, just less so.

The Rickenbacker doesn't even have a real map because it's all straight-forward from that point on. You head in one direction. The Many just has dead ends.

Also, shitting on these game's systems isn't very smart. They're outstanding though flawed.

To quote SS2 guy, "nah." http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...o-far-not-impressed.82886/page-9#post-3329883

 

[ArchAngel]

How could you acknowledge that after the linear combatfest that is the endgame :\

I agree that SS2 endgame is shit (especially the corridors leading to The Many and facing Shodan at the end) but everything before that was great (if not exceptional in some places).

Overall, I felt that SS2 provided a better experience than DX and that probably thanks to the survival-horror atmosphere. Anyway, it's not a big deal. I love both games ... with extra incline for SS2

Tnx, I need to check out SS2 at some point in the future. Are there mods for ss2 that make its graphics better like there are for dx?

 

[Infinitron]

How could you acknowledge that after the linear combatfest that is the endgame :\

I agree that SS2 endgame is shit (especially the corridors leading to The Many and facing Shodan at the end) but everything before that was great (if not exceptional in some places).

Overall, I felt that SS2 provided a better experience than DX and that probably thanks to the survival-horror atmosphere. Anyway, it's not a big deal. I love both games ... with extra incline for SS2

Tnx, I need to check out SS2 at some point in the future. Are there mods for ss2 that make its graphics better like there are for dx?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/system-shock-2-mod-guide.79965/

 

[hajro]

How could you acknowledge that after the linear combatfest that is the endgame :\

We spend the first 2/3's of the game being little scavenging whores, the remaining third acts as a test of all our strategics and skills up 'till that point. It all gets a little more intense, combat, platforming, orienteering (having to find all the eggs). The levels remain open, just less so. They are still rather well designed and each room provides a unique challenge. I think the change of pacing is rather fitting for the gameplay and plot.
I too used to bash these levels but they really aren't that bad.

Also, shitting on these game's systems isn't very smart. They're outstanding though flawed.

Arx Fatalis shits on both Deus ex and SS2 stop memeing

Hearing that is a first. Only on the Codex!
I love Arx too, dearly, but it is a small step or two behind the true greatness of Shock 2 and Deus Ex. Great effort though and it makes my top ten game list. Love it.

SS2 and Deus ex both have grating faults that worsen the experience, yes these games have highers highs than Arx fatalis but they also have lower lows. Arx fatalis is the more balanced game

 

[evdk]

We spend the first 2/3's of the game being little scavenging whores, the remaining third acts as a test of all our strategics and skills up 'till that point. It all gets a little more intense, combat, platforming, orienteering (having to find all the eggs). The levels remain open, just less so. They are still rather well designed and each room provides a unique challenge. I think the change of pacing is rather fitting for the gameplay and plot.

The Easter Egg Hunt part is not intense, merely irritating. Yay, I missed one and now Shodan bitched me out by the second area air lock and I have to back track the linear corridor that is the Rickenbacker in search for a missing MacGuffin. That doesn't feel intense, just intensely rage inducing. Also the Rickenbacker begins to introduce the first person platforming elements into the gameplay (which are then fully used in the Body of Many aka the shittiest level in the game) which is one mechanic the should just fuck off and die. No sir, I did not like Xen and I do not like this either.

 

[Lhynn]

How could you acknowledge that after the linear combatfest that is the endgame :\

We spend the first 2/3's of the game being little scavenging whores, the remaining third acts as a test of all our strategics and skills up 'till that point. It all gets a little more intense, combat, platforming, orienteering (having to find all the eggs). The levels remain open, just less so. They are still rather well designed and each room provides a unique challenge. I think the change of pacing is rather fitting for the gameplay and plot.
I too used to bash these levels but they really aren't that bad.

I dont get why people hate on linear endgames, if anything you dont want your players fucking around in the supposed climax of the game.

 

[Ash]

Also the Rickenbacker begins to introduce the first person platforming elements into the gameplay (which are then fully used in the Body of Many aka the shittiest level in the game) which is one mechanic the should just fuck off and die. No sir, I did not like Xen and I do not like this either.

And no, there's platforming all throughout the game (though mostly as optional secrets, such as the shotgun stash in the dark, flooded room in med/sci 2), just in Rickenbacker it gets more frequent and challenging.

Something Xen haters somehow fail to realize is that Half-Life is platforming-intensive in the Black Mesa facility too. It's like one third of the gameplay for each chapter. How this is not recognized is beyond me.
If you like Half-Life, then you like FP platforming because there's a shitload of it. There always was in old first person games and that's a good thing.