BioShock and Quicksaving AKA CyberP Returns

[Roguey]

I dont get why people hate on linear endgames, if anything you dont want your players fucking around in the supposed climax of the game.

They'd be okay if they were shorter.

 

[Ash]

Arx fatalis is the more balanced game

Fireball spam? Harm spam? Heal spam?

...unless you mean balance in pacing or overall quality for each field of design. Perhaps.

 

[Lhynn]

Anyway, fun is more important than if the level design "makes sense as a livable space."

Now you are speaking like a true casual tard. In a survival horror environment being familiar and intuitive is extremely important, more so than gameplay itself. Also nonsensical level design is never "fun".

 

[Roguey]

Doom isn't fun, you heard it here first.

 

[Lhynn]

Im talking horror survival, but w/e.

 

[Roguey]

Demons are certainly horrific and it certainly is a struggle to survive on nightmare difficulty where enemies are far more numerous, faster, and can only be temporarily knocked out.

 

[evdk]

Doom isn't fun, you heard it here first.

Well, the Body is nonsensical AND not fun, that's the problem.

And no, there's platforming all throughout the game (though mostly as optional secrets, such as the shotgun stash in the dark, flooded room in med/sci 2), just in Rickenbacker it gets more frequent and challenging.

You understand what the word "optional" means, right?

RE: HL - yes, Half Life has some (too much) platforming even in the Earth based levels (fuck you, Waste Reclamation Plant), but large parts of Xen consist of solely platforming action, with some rather non intuitive goals to boot. Alien? Sure. Worthwhile? Hardly.

 

[Zombra]

Demons are certainly horrific and it certainly is a struggle to survive on nightmare difficulty where enemies are far more numerous, faster, and can only be temporarily knocked out.

Doom is not a shooter but a survival horror game. You heard it here first.

 

[Roguey]

Demons are certainly horrific and it certainly is a struggle to survive on nightmare difficulty where enemies are far more numerous, faster, and can only be temporarily knocked out.

Doom is not a shooter but a survival horror game. You heard it here first.

I'm not the first to joke about this.

 

[Ash]

You understand what the word "optional" means, right?

Well it's optional so much as "I'm shit so I'm going to give up and walk away". Optional in gamer terms is usually try and try until you either succeed or walk away, because we are loot/exploration whores. We see a fire trap and assume there must be goodies behind it, where any real world human would stay the fuck away.

RE: HL - yes, Half Life has some (too much) platforming even in the Earth based levels (fuck you, Waste Reclamation Plant), but large parts of Xen consist of solely platforming action, with some rather non intuitive goals to boot. Alien? Sure. Worthwhile? Hardly.

Embrace it.

 

[Ash]

^Lol.

Yes. There's far more art in SS2 than Bioshock. Judge the whole experience as art: the story, gameplay etc, not just the art direction.

Don't listen to Roguey, SS2 is great (perhaps less than SS1 though). The two games are better than Deus Ex nevertheless.

I still remember finishing Deus Ex and being floored by it and then starting SS2 ... I could not believe how good it was. At first I refused to acknowledge that SS2 is better but by the end of the game I had no choice. Good times.

Now hold on. SS2 is a more tightly-knit and realized experience, but Deus Ex was far more ambitious. I love them both equally, though if I had to choose with a gun to my head it'd probably be DX. It just has far more to give.

 

[Nuclear Explosion]

Who the hell cares? It was a piece of art, simple as that (and B1 as well, but it was less impressive).

I didn't play Bioshock games for their gameplay, bro, and I don't think anyone did.

Don't lump Bioshock 2 in with the Levine games; it actually has decent gameplay.

 

[Ash]

Ok, I'm going to try not to laugh and will see if you have a point, because as far as I remember it was same old, retarded vita chambers and all, with minor differences. I gave up half way through so I could be missing something. The only notable differences I remember was you get a drill and dual-wield plasmids, tower defense featuring little girls, as well as hacking being a different, almost as shit minigame as the previous. And I'm very critical of gameplay so I would have noticed good changes that make the Bioshock games not shit.

 

[Nuclear Explosion]

The gunplay was improved quite a bit. Even Bioshock 1 fanboys admit this. I have no idea how you didn't notice.

 

[Ash]

How was the gunplay improved, in which respect/s?

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Bioshock 2 > Bioshock & BS:I

But that's just all relative.

 

[Ash]

Indeed. One turd smelling slightly less unpleasant than the others is still a stinking turd.

 

[Roguey]

Ok, I'm going to try not to laugh and will see if you have a point, because as far as I remember it was same old, retarded vita chambers and all, with minor differences. I gave up half way through so I could be missing something. The only notable differences I remember was you get a drill and dual-wield plasmids, tower defense featuring little girls, as well as hacking being a different, almost as shit minigame as the previous. And I'm very critical of gameplay so I would have noticed good changes that make the Bioshock games not shit.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...games-shutting-down.89997/page-5#post-3122189

You sure are upset about vitachambers even though SS2 had them too. The only difference was that you had to activate 'em first. Until then you can just rely on good ol' quicksave/load (not that it's necessary, SS2 isn't particularly difficult given that you only fight one enemy at a time for most of it)

 

[Makabb]

Bioshock 2 > Bioshock & BS:I

But that's just all relative.

BS:I > bio 1 > bio 2

 

[Ash]

You sure are upset about vitachambers even though SS2 had them too. The only difference was that you had to activate 'em first. Until then you can just rely on good ol' quicksave/load (not that it's necessary, SS2 isn't particularly difficult given that you only fight one enemy at a time for most of it)

Typical Roguey

-You have to find them and turn them on first. Placement is commonly ~half way through any given level.
-They are few and far between, typically one per level, and late game levels do not feature them at all.
-Nanite reduction based on difficulty level. Try playing on realistic.
-You respawn with 10% max health.
-Frequent enemy respawning plays into the system. Die, a number of the enemies will likely have come back too.
-As a result of their manual activation they are optional.

Now I'm not a huge fan of this resconstructor/quicksave combo, but anything is better than vita chambers, which is quite possibly the worst idea anyone has ever had, ever, with respect to gameplay.

 

[Roguey]

None of that particularly matters.

They're optional in the Bio games too. Though I kept them on anyway, because reloading from the game is way faster than loading from the menu. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad now that I have a SSD.

 

[Ash]

They're optional in the Bio games too.

After a patch IIRC. A patch that is not available on all systems.

And no, it all matters. Everything matters, else you cannot into game design.

 

[Roguey]

After a patch IIRC. A patch that is not available on all systems.

Not the case for Bio 2.

And no, it all matters. Everything matters, else you cannot into game design.

If you pretend quickload functionality doesn't exist.

 

[Ash]

If you pretend quickload functionality doesn't exist.

There's a difference. Quicksave/load resets the game state and the challenges with it, vita chambers do not: enemies retain health, so for example you can just keep chipping away at them with a wrench > die > wrench > die rinse and repeat.
Quicksave spamming also requires player input. Vita chambers always have your back.

 

[Roguey]

There's a difference. Quicksave/load resets the game state and the challenges with it, vita chambers do not: enemies retain health, so for example you can just keep chipping away at them with a wrench > die > wrench > die rinse and repeat.

SS2 doesn't even health sponge enemies that would warrant doing this, so using them is a net loss (you lose time, health, and possibly nanites rather than just time with a quickload), making it a trap feature for noobs, which is bad. If you're going to have an optional feature for scrubs who are bad at playing games, might as well do it the Bio way.