Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Mass Effect BioWare Montreal's Mass Effect: Andromeda - where element zero meets trisomy 21

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,626
Look, ME2 had some good characters, but the only reason people liked it without being able to explain it is simple. The mission structure is very gamey.

People enjoy that level of agency over what will happen next. They enjoy skipping over travel time. They enjoy the freedom of knowing that when they are on a mission they aren't looking for meta connections to five side quests.
 

donkeymong

Scholar
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
210
The people in Mass Effect werent characters, because those actually interact with eachother, not only with Shepard. Dragon Age 2, despite
all his faults, had banter and even interaction like the elf girl playing cards with the pirate slut in a bar. Mass Effect 2 on the other side
had no teambuilding at all.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,865
Location
Italy
I'm still waiting for someone to describe me the "spirit" of ME1. Some people might think I hated that game, but I didn't. It was... cool, but people treat very menial details of it as if they were the second coming of Christ, and languish about the what ifs and think the game was meant to be some groundbreaking shit.

one of the first recent f/tps rpgs, with stats and equipment. pretty lights on all sides but deus ex was too.
worldbuilding, afaik it was the first time you could talk face to face with all these aliens and hear their stories and either hug them or punch them in the face.
planets to explore which at the time felt big.

unfortunately it was all done with the aurora engine, the bane of humanity.
 

Tytus

Arcane
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
3,596
Location
Mazovia
unfortunately it was all done with the aurora engine, the bane of humanity.

What the fuck are you talking about?

ME1 was done in Unreal or more precise.

UE3 version 3240


Only games done in Aurora were Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights 2 and Witcher 1 (though with JE and NWN2 it was Odyssey updated version of Aurora and Witcher 1 used it's own homebrew version of Aurora).
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,137
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
I'm still waiting for someone to describe me the "spirit" of ME1. Some people might think I hated that game, but I didn't. It was... cool, but people treat very menial details of it as if they were the second coming of Christ, and languish about the what ifs and think the game was meant to be some groundbreaking shit.

Sure there are biodrones, retards and mainstream journalists who think it's the Citizen Kane of RPG.

But it WAS groundbreaking in its own right - first sci-fi game that wasn't some subgenre trash like horror or cartoon or something goofy but a serious, full-blooded space opera. And afaic it succeeded completely. As for lore, plot and worldbuilding it could stand on their own even in literature and that's extremelly rare in vidya.

Ofc with ME2 they went from space opera to soap opera but that's a different story.
 

pippin

Guest
Yeah, that's the impression it gave me. People tend to be lenient to it because it's an original sci fi setting, and while I played the game, finished and might replay it in the future, I don't think it's enough to consider it as something worthy of more attention than what you do in your spare time.

I do not think Deus Ex was "light" in any of its design choices, I mean, Deus Ex is like a full meal while ME1 is like bubblegum. Stats and equipment, I mean, probably I'm going to get edgy rating for it, but CoD has them too... and sports games are the only place where you care about stats these days. The problem for me is that ME felt too much like other things from Star Control to Farscape, so you could say it doesn't have enough truly unique things for me to care about it.
 

Theldaran

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 10, 2015
Messages
1,772
I'm still waiting for someone to describe me the "spirit" of ME1. Some people might think I hated that game, but I didn't. It was... cool, but people treat very menial details of it as if they were the second coming of Christ, and languish about the what ifs and think the game was meant to be some groundbreaking shit.

Sure there are biodrones, retards and mainstream journalists who think it's the Citizen Kane of RPG.

But it WAS groundbreaking in its own right - first sci-fi game that wasn't some subgenre trash like horror or cartoon or something goofy but a serious, full-blooded space opera. And afaic it succeeded completely. As for lore, plot and worldbuilding it could stand on their own even in literature and that's extremelly rare in vidya.

Ofc with ME2 they went from space opera to soap opera but that's a different story.

Huh?

I always thought the Reaper narrative was just a lazy rehash of KOTOR's Rakatans and the Sith Empire.

Doesn't matter because it only covers a minor fraction of ME1 (allowing for the sequels to exist) and the main antagonist is another guy.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
10,886
So anyway just looked at the only sales figures that can be found and the game is a bust. It was number 1 in physical sales copies in the UK for two weeks without any new competition though it lost 78% of sales in week two, now in week three it's dropped off from there by 53% and moved down to number five in the chart. On it's third week of release, it is selling less physical copies in the UK than GTA 5!...

Persona 5 tops UK boxed charts

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-04-10-persona-5-tops-uk-boxed-charts

Last Week

This Week
Title
New Entry 1 Persona 5
2 2 Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Wildlands
3 3 LEGO Worlds
5 4 Grand Theft Auto V
1 5 Mass Effect: Andromeda
7 6 FIFA 17
8 7 The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
New Entry 8 LEGO City Undercover
10 9 Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
Re-Entry 10 Overwatch

It means Mass Effect Andromeda takes a tumble from its perch at No.1. The game falls down to No.5 with a 53% drop in sales. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Wildlands and LEGO Worlds hold onto No.2 and No.3 respectively.

So the game has the same sales pattern as the drop off from DA2 if this result is mirrored around all distribution platforms and countries. And it's launch week was down on both ME2 and 3 in the past and Horizon and Ghostlands this year. The 3 million EA predicted for week one would be lucky to be achieved over the games life sales, even now it's almost a third of at some outlets.

I can't say I'm not happy about this. Because somehow EA and Bioware have hoodwinked people into buying a product with a name. Made by a joke studio on a big budget that got reduced to a shoestring halfway through development, that has no quality and would never sell a copy apart from the name and franchise. Basically Mass effect 4 is the Superman 4 of videogames.

This garbage has to stop and gamers need to grow up and instead of pre-ordering and getting giddy for shitty little bonus packs. They should stop being fanboys and letting themselves get played by companies stamping a brand name on a bad product for easy money.
 

pippin

Guest
There's a reason why gaming companies refuse to publish even estimated sales numbers.
 

pippin

Guest
There's a reason why gaming companies refuse to publish even estimated sales numbers.
Denial?

That and self image. The gaming industry and the computer world are the most profitable creative industries right now, so they will always try to save face as long as they can. Especially now that a single rumor can snowball into a huge problem.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,137
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
I'd be surprised if it has done anywhere as well as dragon age 2 did, even with DA2s poor sales results.

EA bragged DA2 sales were good but even so they're not working on a sequel afaik. I guess that means much worse MEA sales rule out Andromeda sequel too? Problem is almost nothing got explained in the end of MEA, despite Walters clearly saying MEA will be self-contained, with the plot fully completed.

Btw still following the total mess that's MEA multiplayer. With the community on the brink of revolt the devs keep stolidly mumbling on their stream they're listening to the feedback and looking into balance changes but don't wanna "overreact". A month after launch they're apparently still just collecting notes and comments while reddit and unBSN are reaching boiling point. This game delivered much entertainment after all.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,395
I'm a sucker for sci-fi so thanks to CPY I tried this thing. The premise they got with this game was really good and I really liked that the whole Andromeda Initiative turn out to be a mess of epic proportions, the problems started when they decided to take shortcuts. Each planet you are going to visit was a "golden world", an habitable planet that because of ominous reasons are now barren pieces of rocks.

The first problem arises, if all those golden planets are now inhospitable pieces of barren rock, what changed them on 600 years the trip took for the colonists to get there? Planets don't change that radically on 600 years. To "solve" this problem, Bioware took the first shortcut that really done great damage, it was a phenomenon that had something to do with an ultra advanced alien civilization that existed on Andromeda. Well, this caused a series of issues, first, it is too much you trying to make the players care about what they are seeing on this new galaxy for the first time AND reintroduce the worn cliche of the ancient civilization did it when this was exploited to utter exhaustion on the previous games.

Things get worse, well, the game is about colonists trying to create colonies on a new galaxy right? So, colonists have to build colonies, right? But wait a minute, if all the planets are useless inhospitable pieces of rock, how they gonna do that? It happens that the ominous ancient civilization just had giant magical atmospheric terraformers to conveniently make the planets conveniently habitable to humans. Why? Fuck logic!

Things manage to get even worse, because of this huge ancient ominous ancient alien civilization is so important for the plot to work, they not only decide to step on the shit but to continue until their boots are all smeared with it. Obviously, you need to interact with those alien artifacts and monuments and all the motivations of the main baddies and the protagonist involve interacting with those things. Of course, if the story is so focused on this lost alien civilization thing, they will bother to explain it right?

Nah, Bioware thought it was a good idea to keep the ominous mysterious alien civilization thing to remain ominous mysterious even when focusing so much time on it. The result is hilarious bad scenes where you interact with a dangerous alien ruin that you know nothing about and manage to terraform the entire atmosphere of a planet by simply placing your hand above some weird symbols. "Dude, logic and good sense is for suckers!" I didn't know if I laughed or felt pity.

If the alien thing wasn't bad enough, they decided it would be cool making first contact with not only one but two races. Well, basically, this is a shooter kinda RPG game right? So you need mooks to shoot and NPCs to be fetch quest dispensers right? Well, the Kett are the mooks to shoot and the Angaran are the NPC quest dispensers. It is kinda sad, you watching the first contact with the Angaran, they meet you speaking on their lenguage that you don't understand and just five minutes later they are all taking with perfect english with north american speech mannerisms included. I never laughed so hard on my life, this shit is even more gold than Fallout 3.

The designers were so anxious on getting the transformation of unknown alien race to convenient NPC quest dispensers going on that on their hurry they made the Angara look anthropomorphised to a ridiculous degree. Sometimes I wondered if a looked on the characters backs I would see the zipper of their costume and on reality they are a bunch of Andromeda cosplayers trying to fool you into believing they are an alien race. Anthropomorphism is very common on popular science fiction and derided by serious writers with alot of reason but if kept on check and you are careful, you still can do some anthropomorphism without turning the whole thing on a farce.

Mass Effect 1 writers were smart enough to have you being a captain of the alliance quite some time after the first contact and having a galactical body with rules and procedures regarding newly discovered races making the question "Why all aliens speak perfect english and have strange human like behaviors?" not so damaging to the whole fiction as you could assume the Council was active in trying to learn the new species ways. Unfortunately, Prospermeda writers weren't this careful.

Okay, the ancient alien angle sucks balls, the new races suck balls and how about the dialog and characters? Well, human beings talk taking turns with each other, someone speak something and the other person answer with what she thinks of it. Well, when you talk, you talk of your life, your opinions, the things tha matter for you, your dreams, emotions and likes, right? We don't have perfect knowledge of ourselves either and we many times are as confused as the other people around about ourselves and even if we know something for sure, we don't bother go around explaning ourselves on a psychological analytical lecture.

Well, if your characters don't have opinions, desires, tastes, dreams, emotions, well they are as thin as cardboard, they are going to talk about what? Well, they are going to talk of platitudes and awkward attempts at humor that makes you question their mental age. We don't talk explaining ourselves like some psychology therapeutic professional, we just say what the fuck we want with explaining as quick as possible as this is fucking boring. Mass Deffect Prospermeda has alot of dialog, it just forgot how to turn all that text on something that a human being would say. Honestly, sometimes I wondered if the characters had some hidden mobile phones and were just talking with each other reading aloud the messages on their twitter instead of actually talking with each other.

Not only the characters are cardboard cutouts, the text itself isn't good enough for dialog and that with the shit half assed voice over make the thing just worse, seriously, the protagonist talks like he is high on marijuana the whole game as he can't just express any kind of emotion and talks on a weird tone of voice that makes him look like he was stoned. Bioware removed all the ability to be mean with people too, you are just a goofy two shoes guy high on marijuana that can only say "I accept this quest with a professional tone.", "I accept this quest with a casual tone."I accept this quest with a logical tone.". Obviously assuming those shitty writers can figure out what a professional tone is and can make their stoned voice actor say something that looks assertive.

Now the icing on the cake, did you ever heard some internet retard claiming the gameplay on this game is its saving grace because it is "great" and the game isn't as bad as people are claiming? Please, get the used underwear of the EA CEO and insert on the mouth of this imbecile. The game on the higher difficulties is a formulaic cover based shooter that is even worse than Mass Effect 3 because it is open world nows so you won't have properly designed encounters and setpieces and you can't control your AI team mates anymore, they have the tendecy to just charge on the middle of the murderbots of doom that can vaporize your health on miliseconds.

On easier difficulties, you can do all this stuff they shown up on the gameplay trailers but as cover shooting works better, why bother? Coverbased shooting and mobility are two things that gel together as water and oil.

TD:LR: My wall of text rant isn't much about this game as I expect this to be this bad and honestly and the Bioware kid has the right to the daddy EA mercy shot at this point. I just am impressed how the talented programmers and enviromental artists that worked on this game were left behind by the incompetent writers and designers. The whole gaming industry is like this, at least the AAA portion of it, the higher you get on the food chain, more incompetent you get, it is an phenomenon for economists and sociologists to figure out.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,137
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
I just am impressed how the talented programmers and enviromental artists that worked on this game were left behind by the incompetent writers and designers.

Well game devs, just like most movie studios, don't give a shit about hiring good writers bc most players/moviegoers don't give a shit about writing. They just want to be dazzled with graphix. Just look at how everyone's been jizzing themselves with delight over ME2. Why would a restaurant owner spend extra money on a good chef when most punters happily gobble up dogshit on a plate, as long as the plate is all shiny and awesome?

Btw it's kindda heartening they didn't get away with serving vomit this time around, tho as usual the bulk of the shitstorm was centered on the placeholder animations. But it's something.
 

Kirkpatrick

Cipher
Joined
Apr 16, 2013
Messages
773
Sorry, just one quick question. How did they know there are hospitable planets (those Golden ones) while in Milky Way?
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,395
They just want to be dazzled with graphix. Btw it's kindda heartening they didn't get away with serving vomit this time around, tho as usual the bulk of the shitstorm was centered on the placeholder animations. But it's something.
Unfortunately true.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
10,886
I'd be surprised if it has done anywhere as well as dragon age 2 did, even with DA2s poor sales results.

EA bragged DA2 sales were good but even so they're not working on a sequel afaik. I guess that means much worse MEA sales rule out Andromeda sequel too? Problem is almost nothing got explained in the end of MEA, despite Walters clearly saying MEA will be self-contained, with the plot fully completed.

Btw still following the total mess that's MEA multiplayer. With the community on the brink of revolt the devs keep stolidly mumbling on their stream they're listening to the feedback and looking into balance changes but don't wanna "overreact". A month after launch they're apparently still just collecting notes and comments while reddit and unBSN are reaching boiling point. This game delivered much entertainment after all.

DA2 sold well in it's first week because it was pulling shady shit with Pre-order bonus', it also was a sequel to a well recieved game, so they were bragging then. But after the first week the bad word got around and sales dried up, so then EA stopped mentioning sales figures. Here's a chart I posted a couple of pages ago to show this dropoff, which Andromeda is following the same pattern as, if not worse, though we don't know it's week one sales...

e0072368_4e653daabec2e.jpg


The strange thing about this chart was I found it in google images and then posted it then the image disappeared, now the image I posted above was found on google search and links to my earlier post of it which dissappeared before and has re-appeared...spooky stuff:D

EDIT The chart disappeared again:) though I can still see it in the edit. Anyway here's another chart that just shows the xbox and ps figures though it gives you the picture of the sales trend...

DA2DAO-2.jpg
 
Last edited:

JRIz

Augur
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
502
Well, this caused a series of issues, first, it is too much you trying to make the players care about what they are seeing on this new galaxy for the first time AND reintroduce the worn cliche of the ancient civilization did it when this was exploited to utter exhaustion on the previous games.
Now I know ME never wanted to be serious science fiction but rather counts as space opera, but I can't help imagining a ME:A with a first contact scenario along the lines of Lem's Fiasco. 80% of the game would be spent just figuring out how the aliens think without ever talking to them, maybe fighting their robots along the way. Instead we get evil humanoid aliens and good humanoid aliens, and the first planet has Avatar-like floating rocks which is as goofy as it gets.

From watching some bits of RK's LP, I just wonder, where are all the factories and automated construction machines? If we were to decide to colonize a whole different galaxy, this wouldn't need to depend on the presence of planets where you can walk around with a t-shirt on. In the ME universe with mass relays, you can drop off some prefab structures on a planet in the Milky Way and call it a colony, but when starting from scratch without the relays, subterranean or space-based factories would probably be even preferable.
 

RPGMasterLvl2

Novice
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
35
Didn't they (partly) fix Liara with The lair of the shadowbroker DLC to better match how she would be in ME3?

Not really, she was already a mafia boss when you meet her in vanilla ME2 lol. Whose idiotic idea was that I can't even.

As for the DLC, yeah it was prolly the most entertaining romp of the entire trilogy. The pacing, the encounter design, the set pieces, the final boss, all very juicy. Except for Liara being fucking Carlo Gambino of the Milky Way.

But a least the combat was quite fun

Meh, compared to ME3 combat is kindda lame, especially the biotics. ME3 combat is far superior.

Drew Karpyshyn wrote her in ME1, Patrick Weekes in ME2 and ylvia Fetekuchy wrote her in ME3.

Mac Walters wrote a shitty comic set between ME1 and 2 where he turned Liara into Arnold Schwarzenegger, so maybe it was his idea.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,395
I just am impressed how the talented programmers and enviromental artists that worked on this game were left behind by the incompetent writers and designers.

Well game devs, just like most movie studios, don't give a shit about hiring good writers bc most players/moviegoers don't give a shit about writing. They just want to be dazzled with graphix. Just look at how everyone's been jizzing themselves with delight over ME2. Why would a restaurant owner spend extra money on a good chef when most punters happily gobble up dogshit on a plate, as long as the plate is all shiny and awesome?

Btw it's kindda heartening they didn't get away with serving vomit this time around, tho as usual the bulk of the shitstorm was centered on the placeholder animations. But it's something.
While I agree with you that most people are distracted by graphix, Prospermeda is the worst written game I played on the last few years, and while other AAA companies are awful at this, Bioware is just special awful with this game. I place this game along side with Fallout 4 in terms of ridiculous bad writing and that is an achievement even for AAA standards.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,137
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
While I agree with you that most people are distracted by graphix, Prospermeda is the worst written game I played on the last few years

Meh, I wouldn't go that far. MEA writing is terrible for supposedly professional writers. But a lot of indies are even worse because it's usually the programers or designers or some cheap fresh-out-of-school wannabe literati doing the wriiting and it shows. Larian is a glaring example of that and as bad as MEA is for me D:OS is still unbeaten when it comes to clueless dialogues, inane plot and the overall reek of teen fantasy fanfiction.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom