The Dark Eye Blackguards - turn-based tactical RPG set in The Dark Eye world

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Cause I feel/know that Obsidian, inXile or Larian are never gonna make a RPG with combat or encounters this good.

Which is probably true but just sad. The combat in this game isn't exactly some incredibly high standard to live up to. I found it relied way too much on hazards and gimmicks to be interesting.

You probably made a quick judgement on the gimmicks comment. I had the same concerns but discovered the only battle map set pieces you really need to touch are the occasional map where you need to flip a switch or two to open a gate to escape through or whatnot.

Playthrough 2 is better than the first due to the player's deeper understanding of the system. Some might call that meta, but really there is depth that takes some experience to reveal itself. The recent patch improving feedback and enhanced combat log has lifted the veil quite a bit so there is less left to question.

 

[Excidium]

I doubt you played enough of it to have an informed opinion. It takes some time and development for the system to shine. You also have to learn enough about it to be effective. Playthrough 2 is better than the first, mostly due to the player's deeper understanding of the system.

Don't know why they would use that shallow, gamey system on the demo if they have such a complex and nuanced system that you need to play seven times to fully grasp on the full game. You know the demo should be used to make people want to buy the game.

If you don't find this combat interesting, then you don't find tactical turn-based combat interesting in any form ever created to date.

They should use this on ads

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Actually I edited that out, but the point stands. If you don't like it, you probably don't like combat in this style at all and I can think of only a couple of games that have done combat in this style as well.

Shallow and gamey? That is simply false. The first chapter has the least engaging combat and that is a pity. Too bad they didn't make some of the more interesting abilities available in the demo. As I said, it takes some character development.

 

[circ]

Umh. The combat system is at best ToEE lite. You didn't need to change perspective with ToEE because it was fine. A warrior had more to do in combat than spam hammer blow every round. You can of course knock down people but why bother. Mages were extremely different, and a lot of the spells were useful, now you're better off sticking to half a dozen spells out of something like 25, and that's just bad design.

It is shallow and gamey man, it's TB hack and slash. Having to knock down some crystals in some maps isn't exactly some tactical masterpiece and having interactive objects like boxes in maps seem like an afterthought.

What interesting abilities? Wounds don't seem to matter all that much for mobs because you can get really screwed over by RNG - like a low level mob resisting 10 knock down checks in a row from static objects, and on a reload fail every single one.

 

[Markman]

Some people are hard to please.

Dont blame you tho, if it doesnt hook you after an hour or two then it wont for the next 30 hours.
Dont really know what you are comparing it against. Its like some imaginary super mega tactical RPG in your head cause I cant think of a single non-indie PC RPG in last 10 years that did combat or encounters better.
Or you suck at the game or you feel its not "worth" your time cause its made by an unknown developer and not by bio/sawyer&co/inXile, whatever.
I think the second option might be it, just a hunch tho.

Blackguards is not a bad (S)RPG by any means. Dont think I would spend like 50 hours on a game with shitty gameplay and mechanics.
Its a welcome breath of fresh air in the RPG genre.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Not that I care what anyone thinks of the game, but some of what you say doesn't make sense Circ. Special attacks on downed opponents never miss. Knockdown is devastating if used right but you ask why bother. No much of discussion to be had there. Blunt, sinew cutter arrows/bolts, buff & debuff spells etc. These effects seriously influence combat.

I actually agree with you in that the combat is TOEE light, mainly due to a comparative lack of feedback. The character development is worlds beyond KoTC and as good as ToEE IMO. The mechanics are all there IMO but something in the way ToEE communicated with the players was excellent.. KoTC is arguably better for the same reasons of feedback... but we are talking about two games, not a wealth of choice.

So tell me then, what is better than the combat other than perhaps those two? .. and if seems shitty as you say, you must not like this style of combat at all because it is pretty good as these things go.

 

[circ]

If you have a warrior buffed up to the point where hammer blow isn't likely to miss, why waste a turn on knockdown - which bigger mobs are immune to anyway. All of the projectiles you listed are limited in number unless you use shadow whatever spell, if you don't you're looking at very situational usage, plus you can't even swap arrow sets in combat unless you have a habit of carrying around extra bows - and besides there's only one elven bow, and extra sets are a dumb idea due to pretty high encumberance.

I like TB combat just fine, I just think considering that that's all the game has to offer because of its linearity, they could have thrown in some extra combat choices. Darkeye from what I've seen in crpg's doesn't seem to be as rich as D&D, but something like Drakensang sure had more options than this - as mentioned earlier by others.

Stop praising mediocrity I guess, as if it's the savior of RPG's, because so far I haven't seen anything that hasn't been done by AAA studios, or better a decade ago. Not counting Arcanum combat.

 

[Severian Silk]

If you have a warrior buffed up to the point where hammer blow isn't likely to miss, why waste a turn on knockdown - which bigger mobs are immune to anyway. All of the projectiles you listed are limited in number unless you use shadow whatever spell, if you don't you're looking at very situational usage, plus you can't even swap arrow sets in combat unless you have a habit of carrying around extra bows - and besides there's only one elven bow, and extra sets are a dumb idea due to pretty high encumberance.

I like TB combat just fine, I just think considering that that's all the game has to offer because of its linearity, they could have thrown in some extra combat choices. Darkeye from what I've seen in crpg's doesn't seem to be as rich as D&D, but something like Drakensang sure had more options than this - as mentioned earlier by others.

Stop praising mediocrity I guess, as if it's the savior of RPG's, because so far I haven't seen anything that hasn't been done by AAA studios, or better a decade ago. Not counting Arcanum combat.

I had a lot of fun with the game. The mechanics are also easier to understand than D&D. Yes, the game got worse toward the end. But we don't have much else to choose from.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

You can drag the same bow in all three weapon set slots, thus having 3 different sets of arrows ready, circ. It's still not very elegant because you might want to have 1 melee set ready for emergencies which narrows it down to having two different arrow sets available, plus being able to just switch arrows like in basically every cRPG including Drakensang/RoT (3 ammo slots for each ranged weapon) would be a welcome quality of life change imo.

However, circ kinda doesn't like most if not all games, I honestly can't remember him praising ... any game, really. So I guess it doesn't matter much. However, that doesn't invalidate some of his points. Why would I ever spec for fencing weapons? In Drakensang the answer would be simple: causing wounds, kill shit quickly, a very viable strategy. In this game it just doesn't work due to the way wounding works. Take away triple shot and archery is... useless. For the same reason. So in the end, you're doing triple shots, hammer blows, power blows if hammer blow has too low a hit chance. If not that you're either healing or buffing (with the always same 3 or 4 spells) to use the aforementioned 3 moves more effectively. Imo the game is pretty fun anyways, but combat could be better had they not made a few weird decisions.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

just fyi, I still got a ninth piece of the spear despite fucking up the virgin quest. Got it from the master assassin who wanted to kill Keidre the boss hooker. Anyway they apparently reduced the penalties of the spear to -3. 2d6+2 (+2 for str 18) infantry dmg seems not too shabby. and +1 wounding. Will keep Takate hammerblowing with Rondracomb though for the time being.

 

[BobtheTree]

Destructoid Review: http://www.destructoid.com/review-blackguards-272333.phtml

He likes it, but treats it more as a strategy game than an RPG. It's like he doesn't even realize it's based on an RPG ruleset.

 

[Severian Silk]

JA2 is an RPG.

 

[abnaxus]

For a first foray into the RPG genre for a company that only made adventure games before that, it's more than a decent effort. Now to see whether they can improve in a sequel, like Radon Labs did with River of Time.

 

[Tramboi]

Did somebody else have my annoying bug? Sometimes launching a spell puts the gameplay code in a deadlock.
I can still move the cam and visit the GUI, but the character's turn will never finish.
Seems to happen more frequently with mass spells, somehow.

 

[Markman]

Did somebody else have my annoying bug? Sometimes launching a spell puts the gameplay code in a deadlock.
I can still move the cam and visit the GUI, but the character's turn will never finish.
Seems to happen more frequently with mass spells, somehow.

Had it happen twice but that was before 1.3 patch, one in ch5 and another at the final battle. At reload I just killed the guy that locked the game first so he couldnt do his turn at all and was able to continue.

 

[Infinitron]

On Steam, this video is described as "of choice and consequence".

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

vidya games for dummies, would have never thought that [Naurim] before a dialogue line, means Naurim does the talking. You never stop learning new things I guess.

 

[circ]

Woopty doo. Choices were a joke and had no impact on anything major. Try hardar.

 

[Jaesun]

Woopty doo. Choices were a joke and had no impact on anything major. Try hardar.

 

[circ]

Yeah well... I cried when Mordin died. Didn't you? Yeah that's right.

 

[Whisper]

Not that I care what anyone thinks of the game, but some of what you say doesn't make sense Circ. Special attacks on downed opponents never miss. Knockdown is devastating if used right but you ask why bother. No much of discussion to be had there. Blunt, sinew cutter arrows/bolts, buff & debuff spells etc. These effects seriously influence combat.

I actually agree with you in that the combat is TOEE light, mainly due to a comparative lack of feedback. The character development is worlds beyond KoTC and as good as ToEE IMO. The mechanics are all there IMO but something in the way ToEE communicated with the players was excellent.. KoTC is arguably better for the same reasons of feedback... but we are talking about two games, not a wealth of choice.

So tell me then, what is better than the combat other than perhaps those two? .. and if seems shitty as you say, you must not like this style of combat at all because it is pretty good as these things go.

I had seen crits in 90 dmg from Hammer blow.

Why exactly i would use knockdown on enemy (which often gets resisted) instead?


About spell selection, its realy sad most of spells are just plain bad and not worth it. Especially damage spells like fireball. Only good for igniting things once in several fights.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

The ending is pretty meh, eh?

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Yeah its pretty meh.

 

[Io-Daedalic]

Thanks again for your feedback. I've forwarded it to our dev team and we'll check what we are still able to improve. However, you'll understand that we must keep close attention to our budget and thus might not be able to bring in everything requested at this state of the project, especially not completely new features. 1.4 will most likely come soon, but I cannot say what it will contain at the moment.

Today is also the day I take my hat and leave this board. I'll change projects and thus will not check back here any more. Let me say that one: It was a really interesting and fun experience "working" closely together with you. You guys really gave invaluable feedback and influenced the game a lot - sometimes through your opinions, sometimes even by writing whole guides (thanks again felipepepe ). Blackguards may not be the perfect game and especially not for everyone (which is probably a good thing), but I hope you enjoyed it nonetheless or continue to enjoy it.

I salute... umn, brofist all of you!

Cheers,
Io

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

He never truly liked us, only came here because he had to.

Mir doch egal, da hau halt ab.