BROS FIRST AVERNUM FOUR IMPRESSIONS

[BLOBERT]

BROS SO I HAVE PLAYED LIKE FIFTENE HOURS OPJF AVERNUM FOUR AND I HAVE SOME THOUGHTS FOR BROS WHO ARE THINGKING ABOT UT

FIRST IT IS TOTALLY NOT A MODERN TYPE CRPG IF YOU DID NOT PLAY OR ENJOJY GAMES OF THE EIGHTEUS YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT

FOR ME IT IS INFERIOR TO GENEFORGE IN ITS STYLE GENEFORGE IS MORE OF THE FALLOUT TYPE TAHAT THE CODEX CELENRATES THE GAMEPLAY KINDA REMIDS ME OF ULTIMA 5 AND 6 BUT MORE LINEAR AND A LESS INTERESTING WORLD BUT BETTER LOOT AND LEVEL PROGRSSION AND CHARACER BUILDING

AS FAR AS INTERFACE AND IU AND SHIT BROS LOLLOLOL I WAS TOTALLY POPAMOLE AND LACK OF WALKING ANIMATIONS BOTHERED ME FOR A BIT BUT I GOT OVESR IT AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS OKAY THE EXPLORATION IS COOL WITH NO OVERWORLD MAP BUT I LIKED THE DISCRERTE GENEFORGE AREAS JUST MY PREFERENCER

PLAYING AVERNUM KINDA REMINDS ME HOW AWESOME KOTC WAS THE GAMES ARE SORT OF SIMILAR IN INTENTION I THINK AVERNUM DOES BETTER WORLD AND EXPLORATION AND KOTC DOES COMBAT AND CHARACTER LEVELING BETTER BUT OVERALL IT REMINDS ME HOW AWESOME KOTC WAS WITH LACK OF FILLER SHIT AND COMBASDT OPTIONS

RIGHT NOW I AM HOOKED AND INTERESTED BUT NOT NEARLY AS SO I WAS WITH THE GENEFORGE GAMES OR KOTC JUST MY SUBJECTOINB OPINION

ON THE PLUS SIDE IT IS SORTA BRIANLESS AND I CAN JUMP IN AND RUIN MOTHERFUCKERS I N SHORT SPURTS BETWEEN OTHER SHIT

BROS ILL WAIT TILL I FINISH MY TIME WITH THE SENDCOND TRILOGY JUST THOUGHT I WOULD GIVE SOME IMPRESSIONASD FOR PEOPLE THINKING ANOT PLAYING IT

 

[Correct_Carlo]

It's OK. Not great, not bad. I hated Avernum 5 because of the hitpoint bloat, but Avernum 4 doesn't have alot of that, at least not that I remember. I liked Avernum 6 best of the second trilogy.

 

[Agesilaus]

Thanks for reminding me about Avernum 4, I need to get around to playing it. If the comparison to KOTC is apt, then I think I'm in for some fun. Keep us updated if you continue on to Avernum 5 and 6 (I have the full second trilogy, so if I load one up I will probably want to complete the lot of them at some point).

But... should I start and finish Nethergate first...

EDIT: Finish Nethergate when I have time, then Avernum 4 if nothing else is out by then.

 

[Johannes]

I remember reading that it's the worst of the Avernum games. Though I haven't actually completed any of the second trilogy games.

 

[sea]

I started Avernum 4 back in July or so and put it on hold a bit around Almaria (about 40-50 hours in, yes, this game is fucking long if you take your time). Picked it up again yesterday.

I will praise Jeff Vogel for one thing, and that is that he is damn good at making a massive and detailed world that nevertheless feels interconnected and smartly designed. I absolutely adore the whole ability to explore huge amounts of the world and stumble across quests and dungeons that are lengthy, detailed and fun, and then be rewarded 10 hours later when it turns out it was needed to accomplish some other task. The game does not hold your hand at all, but trusts you to explore every inch of it, not because you have to, but because you want to.

I also love the way that the game constantly gives you information yet leaves you in the dark about certain details - you can keep asking everyone about it, and their answers will be appropriate to their characters, always tempting you with little bits here and there but also smartly pointing you in the right directions. When you finally do reach that one character who actually does have your answer for you, it feels immensely rewarding, because you feel that you had to work towards it.

Even though the Avernum setting is somewhat bland once you get past the "giant cave full of mushrooms" thing, I also will say that Vogel has constructed some interesting politics and sub-plots that form a fairly wide web of mysteries and conspiracies. It's not exactly gripping, but it's a lot more effective than the "save the world" crap in most fantasy games, and does a good job at keeping me going.

Granted, this is true of the other Avernum games that I've played, but it's still true of Avernum 4.

However I do think the combat in Avernum 4 is rather poorly balanced (even a lot of trash fights are annoying and time-consuming, and many bosses are stupidly hard or rely on cheesing to win, like baiting out enemies) and I find myself capping out in terms of effectiveness. There is a lot of trash filler that is very rinse and repeat too, and the respawning enemies in some places only make it worse. I've done a huge number of quests and explored everything possible given how far I am in the game (Fort Emerald) and yet I am also struggling to make forward progress. I'm not sure if the game wants me to grind, or if I'm just missing something.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO GOOD STUFF SEA

LIKE YOU I FIND AREAS THAT ARE FUCKING GRINDING AND HARD SO THEN I FIND ANOTHER ROOT TO GO TO AND THE PROGRESS IES EASIER

BRO SOMETIMES I GO BACK TO OLDER AREAS AND I CAN GET SHIT THEAT WAS HARDER BEFORE PROBABLY OBIVOUS BUT IN A GAME THIS SIZE IT IS EASY TO FORGET ALOT OF SHIT YOU SKOOPPED

BRO ALSO THE PERMABUFFS LIKE STEEL SKIND OR THE HP ONE ARE IMPORTANT I AM AROUND THE SAME SPOT AS YOU AND I CAST THOSE TWO ON MY TWO MEELEE BROS AFTER LEAVING TOWN AND ALMOST EVERY FIGHT I HASTE THE PURE FGHTER AND OFTEN THE WHOLE PARTY

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO AGAIN IN SHORT I AM USUALLY FINDING A PATHE OF LESSER RESISTANCE SO THE GRIND IS NOT SO BAD

 

[sea]

Yeah, I just made some progress past a point I was stuck at. I can just never tell if the game expects me to make a beeline for an objective, or stick around and explore/level/quest a bit. It can get frustrating. I also really wish there was a way to see the whole map with the fog of war intact, would make it much faster to see where you should go next.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO I SEE

THIS IS OLD SCHOOL BRO THE ONLY HIND YOU GET TO GO SOMEWHER4 ELSE IS THAT SHIT IS FUCKING YOU UP

IM ENJOYIN THAT BUT I CAN SEE WEHER IT WOULD GET ANNOYING I AM JUST PLAYING AN HOUR OR SO AT A TIME HERE AND THERE

I NVER FEEL TO STUCK BECAUSE THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS TO GO

I UNDERSTAD ABOUT THE WORLD MAP TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I PREFERRED THE GENEFORGE STYLE THE FULL OVERWORLD WAS AWESOME IN ULTIMA I THINK BECAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS MORE STUFF TO FIND

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I don't remember Avernum 4 being that hard. I played it on torment and actually remember checking the difficulty a few times to make sure it was set correctly. At least on torment, it's by far the easiest Spiderweb game I ever played. Part of the problem with the Avernums, though, is that they are presented as "open world," but they are actually quite linear in the end. It's just that their linearity is enforced via difficulty rather than arbitrary barriers. So it can suck at times trying to figure out where the game wants you to go. You can spend hours getting your ass kicked on one super hard area until you discover that there was a much easier quest line that you were supposed to do first. I kind of see that as part of the fun of these games, though.

Just be prepared for Avernum 5. That game's insanely hard at some points. Plus, it's entirely linear so you really can't grind for levels much. I wouldn't recommend playing that one on torment. I forced myself to finish it just because that's the sort of OCD I am, but it makes it hard enough to be almost game breaking at times.

Avernum 6's difficulty is much more reasonable, though. It has some optional super hard challenge areas and boss fights, but the main quest lines are all pretty manageable at reasonable levels. Plus they tend to come in the "do 2 of these 3 quests to advance," so you can pick and choose somewhat.

I agree about the world maps, though. I prefer the Geneforge hub system. Either that, or the Avernum 1-3 JRPG style overworld maps with explorable sub areas and dungeons. The second Avernum trilogy just has too much dead space and required lawn-mowing for my tastes. They usually aren't boring or anything as there's always something to see, but you still kind of have to explore every inch to complete some quests which sucks.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO THE GAME IS DECENTLY HARD FOR MER BUT I AMSDF NOT SUPER HARD CORE

I DONT HAVE TO MUCH TROUBLE WITH THE DIFFICULYU STRUCTURE I ACTUALLY ENJY IT FOR A CHANGE OF PACE PLUS IT SEEMS LIKE THERE ARE ALWAYS LOTS OF PLACES TO EXPLORE SO IM NOT STUCK TRYING TO FIND THE ONE SPECIAL PLACE THAT IS EASUT ENOUGH

 

[sea]

I don't remember Avernum 4 being that hard. I played it on torment and actually remember checking the difficulty a few times to make sure it was set correctly. At least on torment, it's by far the easiest Spiderweb game I ever played. Part of the problem with the Avernums, though, is that they are presented as "open world," but they are actually quite linear in the end. It's just that their linearity is enforced via difficulty rather than arbitrary barriers. So it can suck at times trying to figure out where the game wants you to go. You can spend hours getting your ass kicked on one super hard area until you discover that there was a much easier quest line that you were supposed to do first. I kind of see that as part of the fun of these games, though.

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. I think what happened is I simply missed doing the fight it wanted me to, or I gave up when I screwed it up and got frustrated - once I finished it, that opened up a bunch of new stuff and it was smooth sailing from here. You don't really realize you're getting stronger, but I'm finding now I've been able to finish up almost all outstanding quests and optional enemies/bosses/etc., except for the demon under Patrick's Tower (I assume that's pretty much endgame content).

I'm pretty close to the end now. I've got to Koth's old lair and since that's almost full circle on the map I assume there is not that much more to do. Overall aside from a few frustrations, the game has been fun, like all of the other Avernum games - not exceptional but certainly very solid and with a great sense of exploration to it. Again, I can't praise Vogel enough for this, because he does it as well as anyone else and it's rare to play RPGs these days that really make you feel like something can be hidden around every corner if you just look for it.

One thing I wonder will return are the items that let you fly over pits and cross water and that sort of thing. I liked that in the first Avernum especially and it was really sweet how suddenly all those natural barriers no longer presented obstacles to you, and even opened up a lot of extra secrets. Seems like he cut that all there, maybe to save on resources?

That said, after playing Avernum 4 I really do not want to go and play another Spiderweb title for a while. I get burned out on these games simply because of how long they are.

 

[sea]

Finished the game today. Took 77 hours according to Steam, and I am pretty sure I did every single quest or as close to as I could figure out. I enjoyed it, even though once I got past the 2/3 mark or so the story kinda stopped developing and ended up being a sort of "your princess is in another castle!" thing with lots of exploration and grindy combat in between.

It's kind of a shame too, I enjoyed the game, but like all Spiderweb stuff there is just too much combat and most of it is easy and unnecessary. I really could have done with about half of the combat throughout the game, especially towards the end. Maybe it's just Spiderweb fatigue.

Oh well. I guess now I'll have a break before Avadon 2 comes out, at least.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO I AGREEW

WENT STRAIGHT TO NUMBER FIVE AFTER FOUR

ALL IN ALL I THINK THE AVERNUMSD ARE SOLID FUN BUT NOT EXCEPTIONAL

WHICH IN TODAYSD MARKET OF RPGS PUTS THEM ABOVE AVERAGE BY FAR MY ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT BUYINH ALL THE GAMES AT ONCE IT IS EASIER TO GET TIRED OF THEM I RECOMMEND PEOPLE WHO HAVER DONE THE SAME IN RECENT BUNDLES TO PACE THEMSELVES

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS SORYTY FOR THE NECRO

I WENT TO PLAY AVERNUM 6 AND I WAS IMMEDIATELY ANNOYED IT JUST SEEMED LESS INTERESTING

I DECDED TO BUY AVERNUM ONE THROUGH THREE

AVERNUM ONE IS AWESME BROS

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS AVERNUM 1 IS TOTALLY NOT POPAMOLE THE INTERFACE IS WORSE IN SOME WAYS BUT THE GAME HAS LOTS OF FUN FEATERYS

I LOVER THE WORLD MAP

ALSO THERE IS NEXT TO NND HAND HOLDING

BROS I AM MANY HAPPY

 

[Correct_Carlo]

You should really play Nethergate: Resurrection next, Blobert. It uses the same engine as Avernum 1 and has an overland map, but the writing's way better and the world's more interesting (it's a historical RPG set in England during the Roman invasion).

 

[Gozma]

This is inappropriate for the thread but I think this is where I could get an answer: Is there some way to make Geneforge 4 not look so terrible, Vogel shrank the viewable area of the game in favor of a gigantic fuckoff huge bad looking UI and my eyes start feeling like they are gonna melt if I play for more than 15 minutes trying to discern shit in the viewable area postage stamp.

 

[BLOBERT]

THANKS JUAN BRO NETHERGATE IS IN MY LIST TO PLAY IVE BOUGHT IT AND READ ALL ABOUT IT

BRO GOZMA I JUST LET MY EYES MELT LIKE THEY DID FOR ULTIMA 6

 

[sea]

This is inappropriate for the thread but I think this is where I could get an answer: Is there some way to make Geneforge 4 not look so terrible, Vogel shrank the viewable area of the game in favor of a gigantic fuckoff huge bad looking UI and my eyes start feeling like they are gonna melt if I play for more than 15 minutes trying to discern shit in the viewable area postage stamp.

Nope. Mods for a Spiderweb game? You must be joking.

 

[Grunker]

Pretty much my sentiments Blo. Completed Avernum three months past or something. Overall pretty "meh", but a few great moments.

 

[Luzur]

This is inappropriate for the thread but I think this is where I could get an answer: Is there some way to make Geneforge 4 not look so terrible, Vogel shrank the viewable area of the game in favor of a gigantic fuckoff huge bad looking UI and my eyes start feeling like they are gonna melt if I play for more than 15 minutes trying to discern shit in the viewable area postage stamp.

Nope. Mods for a Spiderweb game? You must be joking.

well, you can mod that Blades of Avernum game.

 

[Gozma]

I modded it by moving my monitor so close to my seat that my eyeballs now fog the screen slightly with tear-moisture