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KickStarter Cave of Sorrows Dungeons and Dragons Clone

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I got a slight vertigo from that clip.
There is a "too much" in video editing, you know...
Seriously, I find that video very hard to watch.

After I collected my stomach, the game itself doesn't even look too bad.
But, honestly, for a KS to be successful these days, especially one as niche as that (and asking for more than 10k), you need to do your homework before going to KS.
And that means buildings some momentum and a community beforehand.
Indeed, you got quite overboard with the transition effects. There is too much screen time taken by inventory stuff too, but otherwise, it looks like it could be interesting.
Does it use a custom ruleset or is it based on DD openGL?
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
It's definitely D&D 3.5, or some form of D&D. They told me it is open-source.
 

AetherVagrant

Arbiter
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519
Someone make a torrent. Demos only for investors is retarded. That's like only wanting feedback from people that are already going to be confirmation biased against reacting honestly. What I liked about Larian and some other Early Access torents is the feedback mechanisms still worked, so one could still contribute to the testing, without having to commit to buying the end product.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
I'm not making a torrent, but I have a one hour plus video I posted showing the game. I have played a bit off camera and there are other surprises worth mentioning, such as dungeons being laid out like a tabletop game, interaction in the environment (found a cabinet, desk, a written book that then triggered an ambush against special enemies, etc..), and also found a stone slab covering a pathway, so presumably there is some way to move that or open that area up. So again, interesting stuff, but I have to play more and see more. If the art assets are placeholders, then they should update the demo with the "real" art. They have said they are going to so I am going to patiently wait.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Copied my thoughts from the 'Watch.

Played a bit more and I'd like to share some more observations. It turns out, you can click on things in the environment and loot them. Cabinets, desks, chests, bags, etc.. Not all bags can be looted, though. But there are locks and traps as well. The issue is that the mouse has to be positioned a bit lower than it should be for it to trigger.

Did I mention there is dual-classing? You can dual-class any combination you'd like. Just to try it I started leveling up Fighter class for my Sorcerer and took a 2-weapon fighting bonus. It works. The thing is, and this is what I wanted to get to, is that the game is pretty rough, difficulty-wise. The first dungeon is pretty big, and you have to be careful. You can and will die in combat, and the D&D ruleset is actually tightly implemented. So, my two-weapon fighting Sorcerer/Fighter was having trouble hitting in melee and what not.

The dungeon is laid out like a tabletop RPG almost. There is a book on a pedestal in one room that triggers an ambush, and then in another area I saw a place where presumably you put the book. There are text clues, etc.. The dungeon is pretty large and it just reminds me of a tabletop board, if that makes sense. There's actually a semblance of pretty decent level design here, with smart encounter placement, etc.. That is surprising because Sacred Blade had tooooo many enemies early on, but that is not a problem with this game so far. The dungeon is combat heavy, but there's also cool loot to find. Hand-placed, too, and sensible. There are a ton of scrolls so far, though, but you will probably need them.

Other things, though. The leveling up is very fast in the demo. Camping supplies are actually limited and you have to manage your health and stuff. Surprisingly, it's challenging, but not impossible, and seems intelligently designed. You also have to build your character well to be effective as the D&D rules are hardcore. I can't figure out how to see what the various weapon/armor effects do, though. I got armor with effects like Magebane, Ghost Touch, Enhancement, etc. etc., but I can't seem to find their description in game. There are other tooltips and good descriptions for Feats, Proficiencies and all that, but I'm wondering if the other effects are viewable in-game.

Lots of promise here. Has anyone at least tried the demo? Developer issues aside, the foundation of this game has a ton of promise, IMO. If this game doesn't make the Kickstarter goal then I really hope this game still gets made.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
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I may be new here but shouldn't a ToEE like game be getting more love or at least less disdain from a community claiming to like deeper rpgs? What am I missing here?
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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28,242
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I may be new here but shouldn't a ToEE like game be getting more love or at least less disdain from a community claiming to like deeper rpgs? What am I missing here?
Reception to their previous games.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
I may be new here but shouldn't a ToEE like game be getting more love or at least less disdain from a community claiming to like deeper rpgs? What am I missing here?
Reception to their previous games.

Look at inXile. A perfect record of trash and then Wasteland 2. Hopefully they will make more great rpgs going forward. There are plenty of companies that make crap and then make a good game. Or vice versa.

By following logic and reason we can state we like and value ToEE and ToEE's game systems. If this is true we should want more games like ToEE, regardless of where from or developed by. Assuming everyone agrees more of what we supposedly like is better than less of it.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
I may be new here but shouldn't a ToEE like game be getting more love or at least less disdain from a community claiming to like deeper rpgs? What am I missing here?
Reception to their previous games.

Look at inXile. A perfect record of trash and then Wasteland 2. Hopefully they will make more great rpgs going forward. There are plenty of companies that make crap and then make a good game. Or vice versa.

By following logic and reason we can state we like and value ToEE and ToEE's game systems. If this is true we should want more games like ToEE, regardless of where from or developed by. Assuming everyone agrees more of what we supposedly like is better than less of it.

A notification I received states a moderator here named Infinitron gave my posting a bird. I'd be a liar if I said I know what this means but I am assuming it is like the middle finger (also called the bird)?

I am looking for clarification if Infinitron finds my logic wrong - if you like ToEE or games with ToEE like systems you should not want more games like it, regardless of the source? Or if he does not like ToEE, which is understandable given the Bethesda type game leanings this site seems to value over more traditional deep and complex rpgs, why he would take issue with a company making a game inspired by ToEE. I dislike the games focusing on visuals over gameplay, but I do not give the bird to people who enjoy them or companies wanting to make games like them.

Keeping the last statement in mind, I can understand if his giving me the bird was more about me stating I did not like any inXile game before Wasteland 2. Their Bard's Tale, though maybe not as visually compelling as a standard Bethesda or Bioware game, was very similar in play. The only other game I can think of them making is a game that seemed like Skyrim without the three stats called Hunted. I've never played this game so could be the type of game this site values over games more traditionally called rpgs or games with much deeper rpg systems and TB combat such as ToEE.

I'm really having trouble figuring this out.

Anyways I apologize about the faux pas. I am new here and was under the assumption this was THE site for people like me who really enjoys games like ToEE. After seeing the discussions going on in jrpg about games like Zelda (clearly not a jrpg or rpg in any traditional sense of the word), and other clear examples of this site being more of a general gaming site and not an rpg site, I may have joined the wrong site. Does anyone know of a site that focuses on just rpg video games? Almost every game site covers all games including rpgs like this site. What I am looking for is a rpg specific site with just rpg news. Was this site ever like that and then just did a 180 like mmorpg.com which covers all games now and is just another game site?
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
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Messages
2,088

I am not 100% certain what a troll is. It keeps changing. I honestly do not believe myself to be one, but I don't know what the hell the ratings on this site mean or what is going on in general so I could be a troll by ignorance.

I read the thread you linked to. Since you did not answer any of my questions from before I will assume this thread answers them all. If I am assuming correctly I can infer your dislike is due to quantity, and high quantity must mean low quality. But it also seems some of the forum users who own their games do not dislike them.

What I would much prefer over all this assumptions and inferences is to know exactly what you are saying by you saying it. It would save a lot of thinking on my part and hopefully protect me from weird symbols people give me.

1) Do you like ToEE

2) Do you want more games like ToEE

3) Have you played games from these people and disliked them all?

4) And if so and the answer to 3 is yes do you feel like with even a successful kickstarter the developers are incapable to make a game like and near as good as ToEE?

5) If you haven't played a game by them and have no 1st hand opinion as to the quality of the games this company can make, what exactly is your opinion on if they could deliver a game like and near as good as ToEE (with or without a successful kickstarter)?


I haven't heard of these guys until now and looking into some of the games listed I am interesting not only in the kickstarted game of this thread but Mines of Grimvale and Secrets of the Guild. Their ability to churn out games does have me a little skeptical. Are their games just pure crap not even worth the lost cost? The people who buy them tend to somewhat enjoy them. I'm not crazy about Spiderweb games but I do find all of them somewhat enjoyable.

It is hard to form an opinion with all the people who have no actual hands-on experience with the games being so loud about how much they suck, versus the few people who did try some saying they are okay and worth the small price. Are they okay as in spiderweb games? Or okay when compared to really bad mobile games? And what is the chance of them making a decent ToEE like game if I kickstart?
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
I'd be a liar if I said I know what this means but I am assuming it is like the middle finger (also called the bird)?

You don't even know what you don't know

I certainly do know what I don't know and that is why I ask questions or clearly state the assumptions I am making. The only think I know for certain is I like ToEE a lot and would like more games like it. Much more games. I want to know more to be able to make an educated guess on and risk my money with knowing if this company cane make a ToEE like game.

This would be easier if I was certain the people posting liked ToEE and would also like more ToEE like games, or if the are third wave rpg fans who only like high production value mega hits like Bethesda games, Metal Gear, Zelda, or games clearly that are not rpgs and are just shitty on a company wanting to make more traditional rpgs like ToEE.

I know almost nothing and need to know a lot more, including the motivations on the people giving information, or birds, or stone heads, or toilet paper, and other things I literally know nothing about.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
As I said, the Cave of Sorrows demo is not bad at all. Watch the video I made for it. It's unpolished in a bunch of ways, needs work, etc.., but the implementation of D&D, the combat and character development is pretty dope. Just watch the video a bit and you'll see. It does remind me of ToEE, no doubt.

They updated the demo today and I'm going to check it out. So far I don't see a whole lot of difference in it, except that the first 2 maps are different and I guess the icons for the spells, feats, etc.., are no longer placeholders. I dunno, will check it out more.
 

YES!

Hi, I'm Roqua
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 26, 2017
Messages
2,088
Is this the twilight zone or is there an unwritten rule about answering reasonable questions clearly on this site?

At least answer if you like ToEE or not. And in your opinion, as a moderator here, do you believe this is a rpg site or is it a general gaming site like mmorpg.com is now?

Just two questions. I know you can do it, Twilight Zone or not.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,888
Is this the twilight zone or is there an unwritten rule about answering reasonable questions clearly on this site?

At least answer if you like ToEE or not. And in your opinion, as a moderator here, do you believe this is a rpg site or is it a general gaming site like mmorpg.com is now?

Just two questions. I know you can do it, Twilight Zone or not.
You would save yourself a lot of grief if you don't expect anything from 'Dex. It is just place bunch of us use to have some fun and make fun of modern popamole games. (and Infinitron is our news jew).

As for this game here, go play KotC first if you are looking for something ToEE-like.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Someone else pledge a buck or something to get access to the demo. I'd like to chat with someone else who has actually played it. It is certainly ToEE-like and has some interesting aspects. If you want a deep D&D implementation in combat and character development I suggest paying a bit of attention to this one.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Infinitron, I'm trying to be creative! :) I know these devs have an interesting past, but I honestly believe there is something here that can actually be pretty good. People, at least watch my video I made for the demo. Or pledge a dollar. I think that will get you access to the demo as it is backers-only.

Someone check it out with me! :) I'm going to play the updated demo right now and make a new video. Going to try to import my saves from the first demo and see if I can continue them, as I am in the first dungeon and can show off a bit of the dungeon exploring.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Alright, some technical difficulties while making a video, unfortunately. But here are some more thoughts.

Combat continues to be challenging. You have to actually pay attention in combat as well as develop your character in an intelligent way. You don't want to be wasting points on your level up choices. There is plenty of room for flexibility as you can dual-class freely, but you also have to make sure you are developing your character in a sensible way.

An example, but I dual-classed my Sorcerer to a Sorcerer/Fighter with 2 weapon fighting. :) Pretty fun, and eventually it may work well, but I wasn't too skilled with my weapons at first to say the least. The ruleset is for real.

First group combat of the game is challenging. I saw lesser goblins surrounding the leader and healing him as needed. The AI actually makes decent decisions so far. I saw a Ghost/Ghoul casting various spells and buffs, etc.. A goblin bowshooter saw my Sorcerer in bad position and fired an arrow at him. Pretty neat.

I dunno, still waiting for some others to check this thing out. This updated demo is pretty sick to be honest. I'm pretty excited by it so far.

Edit - Fought that first Ogre again in the new demo. Tough encounter. I brought my Sorcerer close to Shocking Grasp him, and it was alright, but the Ogre then stopped focusing on my Barbarian and the next attack hit my Sorcerer. Pretty cool. He ended up dying and a dead character can't be brought back without a skilled Cleric or scroll of Raise Dead.

Also, something really freaking cool, the spellcasting Feats such as Extend Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, etc.., are selectable in the combat itself if you learned the Feat. So, for 2x the Spell Points or so, you can Maximize a spell, i.e. if the spell does 2--12 damage it will for sure do 12 damage in the attack at the cost of extra Spell Points. Really slick that you can actually choose those Feats at will when casting a spell.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Tough encounters to say the least. I'm getting rocked, lol. But it feels fair and like a real pen-and-paper ruleset. I tried the Ogre 3 or so times and it was tight each time. Often coming down to some clutch moments, like a timely Animalistic Power on my Barbarian or what have you. :)

Oh, and buff Feats I believe can be cast outside of combat. Rage, for example, and other buffs can be cast. And your summons stay with you for a day or so! I want their sprites in the party while exploring. :)

There's a day and night cycle, too. It's a bit dark at night, so maybe they can add torches for outside night exploration. I'll be exploring the first dungeon in my next video. I mentioned this but it's quite large. Not crazy huge but decent. Lots of loot to find, too, and it looks like you will need it.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
The balance is great so far as well. Maybe if you realllyyy min/max it's easier, but in the new demo I think I built some decent characters and it's still rough. 4 party members so far. 6 total but I haven't found them yet. According to the devs there are 36 dungeons, towers and caves. Some smaller, some larger. Found one small cave and then a cave/dungeon hybrid which is big.

Things like Aid Another, Cast Defensively, Full Attack and so on are very valuable and useful. If you don't Cast Defensively in a bad spot, for example, you could take a wicked AoO.

Sneak Attacks are great. Scrolls can fail. There are chance to hit numbers for almost everything, with expected damage ranges and so on. Even a note if you are risking an AoO by doing the move. Trying to figure out if wands gave this. Didn't see it when using them for some reason.
 

OracleX

Augur
Patron
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
351
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
You really want the Dex to like this game, huh?
 

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