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Chrono Trigger

Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,818
Location
Italy
i blame finalfantashit: why work on more masterpieces which require a lot of effort when shit sells a lot already?

chrono trigger ruined my taste because it's been my first jrpg ever and i couldn't appreciate anything else anymore after trying this godsend.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
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Feb 2, 2007
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Terra da Garoa
Fucking awesome game, there are so many cool things in this game, it does so many things right... it's odd that for such a legendary title, few game actually try to copy it.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Games whom's quality shall not be questioned:

Fallout 1
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen
Chrono Trigger
 

Siveon

Bot
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
4,509
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Yup, probably one of the best JRPGs I'll ever play. Still miffed that I lost that kick-ass poster that came with the game though.

A glorious game, probably only rivaled by Secret of Mana on the SNES.

But they're not even in the same genre.
 

Alex

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
8,750
Location
SĂŁo Paulo - Brasil
Actually, I replayed Chrono Trigger recently, and I was really surprised to find so many flaws in it. I loved it as a kid, but nowadays I see a whole lot of wasted potential in it. Let me explain:

First, the combat. It is really nice that in this JRPG, the positioning of the characters affect combat. Except you never get to determine that positioning! There is no way to move your character on the combat map, except by being thrown by some enemies. Even when a long range PC is face to face to an enemy, she will stand there using her weaker attacks and all. The long range thing doesn't even make sense, because a melee character will walk to any foe to deliver his attack, no matter how far away. I guess you still have the special abilities, which sometimes have different areas of effect. But most abilities either affect one character or all of them (even a few that look like they should affect an area). The few that have a specific area are usually lines or balls. They also happen to be, mostly, very early abilities that are useless in the late game. Now, there are a few that do have interesting area of effects, such as the flamethrower (which is a line that goes from the PC to the enemy, but may damage any enemies in between), the slash (similar to the last one, but the attack keeps going past the original target) and blackhole (which is a circle around the PC). But even these attacks have their potential for making combat interesting limited. As you can't walk during the battle, how useful these attack will be will depend on how your characters and the enemies end up distributed when combat begins. Which wouldn't be so bad, as you can see the enemies in the map, and avoid or approach them as you prefer. However, whenever combat begins, both the enemies and the PCs move to predetermined positions, so you can't even try to plan to approach the enemies in certain way.

Speaking of abilities, I always felt the game has too few of them. Each character only gets 8. I guess I could understand if the abilities themselves were more unique, but that isn't really the case. The attack spells are probably the most boring of the bunch, always affecting either one or all enemies. To be fair, some enemies react interestingly to certain elements, but most of the time, it is simply a question of pairing the right element to the enemy. Special physical attacks had the opportunity to be a little more interesting, since they seem to be based on what weapon you are using, but different weapons are mostly upgrades from one another, so that is another wasted opportunity. There are a few techs that create "status effects", which can be a bit interesting. But even then there is little variety, and most of those are double or triple techs, requiring a specific character arrangement. Aside from all that you have healing spells.

Now, to be fair, one cool thing about the abilities is how they are pretty unique to each character, and how each character can combine different techs to make special attacks. This not only gives them a little bit of personality, but makes deciding which characters to use a bit more tactical (well, the game is easy enough for you to not need any tactics, actually, but at least the possibility was there). My only complaints about the combining of techniques is that one of the characters, Magus, doesn't get any double techs (making him a rather useless character to have), and that all the triple techs that don't need special items need Crono. I think the game would have been better if every possible party had a triple tech (and given how the abilities we have aren't particularly interesting, it shouldn't have been to hard to make).

There is also no customization of the PCs, except by equipping them. And you only get 4 item slots, 3 of which (weapon, armor and helmet) usually have items that only differ in strength. Sure, a few of them have special effects, but those are rare, and bound to eventually become useless. The accessory slot is more interesting, but still, it is a rather limited way of customization.

Moving away from combat (and preparing for combat), the game is like your typical JRPG. The story flows linearly for the most part, with a few actions having very minor effects. There is a little bit to explore at first, with the millennial fair, the cities at the present time, etc. But there is nothing really useful to be found or done there. And as the game goes on, these exploration aspects matter less and less. There is the book puzzle in Zeal, for instance, that can net you some nice items (and TP). But the puzzle itself is rather mediocre. There are the optional quests before the final fight which have a bit more of flesh to them, but most of them end up being dungeons you need to clear up. I guess there is not much point complaining a JRPG is a JRPG, but I think it would have been more interesting if at least the time travel aspect of the game had been used more in the exploration itself. I mean, if you changed the story of CT so that, instead of travelling through time, you were travelling to other worlds with different tech levels, the game wouldn't have been much different. I mean, the story would, of course, but the "quests" you would have to do could remain mostly unchanged.

Enemy wise, I admit the game does a good job making them varied. Different kinds of enemies work differently, and even form different categories together. Some are almost immune to magic, but are weak physically. Some are very weak to a certain element. Dinosaurs have problems with lighting. It is basic, but the cool thing is that you can eventually predict this when meeting a new enemy because you can peg him as this or that kind, just because of how it looks. And some bosses have even more elaborate weaknesses and strengths. Like Magus with his barrier change. But even here there is a pretty nasty problem: Most of these are too simple. Even the barrier change boils down to simply using the right kind of attack.

My point is, CT has nice graphics. It has very good music. Its storytelling and characters don't make you ill as many JRPGs are liable to. But there is a whole lot about it that could have been done better, and it seems really strange to me that it wasn't, because the mistakes are pretty glaring. I mean, it sometimes feels like they wanted to go all the way and actually make something different, but were forced to simplify the game somewhere along the way.
 

Dreaad

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
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Deep in your subconscious mind spreading lies.
Yes of course, everything is shit if look for the flaws. :negative: One thing I am sure of though, is that more isn't always better and I think that for Chrono Trigger more abilities and stat distribution would have made it worse. The abilities do every possible elemental type of damage in a variety of ways... there were several buffs and debufs... What more did you want exactly, that poison spell no one would ever use? Stat distribution would have been meaningless, making an easy game even easier with no real payoff.

Magus not having double techs was because he was the only person capable of doing dark damage and black holing enemies, not to mention having every element attack. He has to have some sort of downside afterall.

As for the story, puzzles and combat... dude this game wasn't made for 20 or even 30 year old people. It was made for kids. Everything about it, from its simple colorful art style, to the story emphasizing friendship and overcoming your fear. It's like saying Pokemon is too easy and the story isn't complex enough. That's not saying someone in an older age group couldn't or can't enjoy it, but it's a bit harsh to judge it by grown up standards.

Not to mention for it's time, the fact that it had several different endings AND side quests was a huge deal. At least as far as JRPG games were concerned.

(It also holds a special place in my heart because there was no emo's except for Frog and he had a legitimate reason for hating his life.)
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,980
Magus having no double techs also fit well with his character- he was a villain after all. Besides, he does get in on a few of the special triple techs enabled by accessories. He was also probably the most powerful character besides Crono in general; he had every element at his disposal, and a useful magic defense buff. Though I usually ran with Crono/Ayla/Frog because slurp kiss was disgustingly undercosted group healing and status curing, and their triple tech was a great boss killer.
 

Alex

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
8,750
Location
SĂŁo Paulo - Brasil
Yes of course, everything is shit if look for the flaws. :negative: One thing I am sure of though, is that more isn't always better and I think that for Chrono Trigger more abilities and stat distribution would have made it worse. The abilities do every possible elemental type of damage in a variety of ways... there were several buffs and debufs... What more did you want exactly, that poison spell no one would ever use? Stat distribution would have been meaningless, making an easy game even easier with no real payoff.

Having the game actually use the combat map in some strategic way would be a very nice start. Aside from that, it could have used more buffs. Which, by the way, is something I should have mentioned. Buffs are actually pretty good in CT. But most of them are too straightforward. You actually see some more interesting buffs on some bosses, like the change barrier spell I mentioned earlier. It would have been too broken to use as a tech, but something like it could have made a fun spell or tech.

Magus not having double techs was because he was the only person capable of doing dark damage and black holing enemies, not to mention having every element attack. He has to have some sort of downside afterall.

Maybe, but by the time you get him, it all seemed pretty useless to me. Black hole rarely works, except on weak enemies. And it seems to me that if you had Crono, Lucca and Marle on your party, and changed one of them for Magus, you would end up with a worse party in almost all situations. Also, the double and triple techs are a bit part of what makes the game fun. Having none makes Magus a much less interesting PC.

As for the story, puzzles and combat... dude this game wasn't made for 20 or even 30 year old people. It was made for kids. Everything about it, from its simple colorful art style, to the story emphasizing friendship and overcoming your fear. It's like saying Pokemon is too easy and the story isn't complex enough. That's not saying someone in an older age group couldn't or can't enjoy it, but it's a bit harsh to judge it by grown up standards.

Not to mention for it's time, the fact that it had several different endings AND side quests was a huge deal. At least as far as JRPG games were concerned.

(It also holds a special place in my heart because there was no emo's except for Frog and he had a legitimate reason for hating his life.)

I can agree with you that some of these might be expecting too much out of the game, though I think you underestimate children a bit. But what I think is a real problem here, I think, is that time travel is just a story element. It isn't something you actually use, but something the story forces upon you now and then. Which seems like a big shame.
 

Grimlorn

Arcane
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
10,248
It is a bit surprising that no one has created a game with a similar battle system. Moving enemies and double and triple tech abilities. They probably have the technology to do it in 3D now. They just need to do it in some sort of isometric view.
 

ghostdog

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
11,079
It's such a great game. My favorite jrpg. The only game I've played that treated time travel right. Excellent combat system, multiple endings, very good story, great pace, somewhat non-linear. When a game is obviously a labor of love from some very talented dudes, it's bound to be special. Never again has square reached such quality and they never will. As for resurrection, it's too bad all that work went to waste, but frankly CT doesn't need a 3D remake, it has some of the most beautiful 2D graphics and art direction.
 

Siveon

Bot
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
4,509
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
It is a bit surprising that no one has created a game with a similar battle system. Moving enemies and double and triple tech abilities. They probably have the technology to do it in 3D now. They just need to do it in some sort of isometric view.

Could've sworn there was a DS game that tried to do just that but failed horribly.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Having the endboss be accessible for the majority of the game is still an amazing feature.
 
Joined
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Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
>not killing Magus

Wusses.

Grandia's battle system is the closest you'll get to CT's, I think.



description said:
Well, I got lucky here. Madragon has the potential to cut through your party with alarming speed.

First off, both parts (body and head) have extremely high WIT, meaning their turns are going to come up quite often. Sue can debuff their WIT with Cold if you choose...a very good idea if you're stats aren't high going into the fight.

Another option is to buff Feena & Sue with Speedy once or twice so they can better act as healers when needed.

With that taken care of, dealing with Madragon's attacks can be a little tricky as they hit very hard without the proper equipment.

The head likes to spam Blast Breath, an attack that'll hit anyone in the path for 40-60+ damage, depending on the character's fire resistance. It also likes to buff defenses with Diggin' & blast you with other painful magic (Quake, Burnstrike).

As for the body, it'll be the one responsible for doing physicals on an area in front of it. They aren't going to be pretty though, especially if it's buffed with a WOW! spell or two.

Otherwise, it too can buff defenses with Diggin', induce paralysis with Gravity, or nuke a single character with Fireburner.

Fiora is also used in this battle. It's only going to really be an annoyance if it's used on Justin. Gadwin is going to be spamming combo w/ the Dragon Killer sword + Chain of Gems while Feena & Sue are on support to keep everyone alive and free of bad status effects.

One good thing here...like Ganymede, Madragon's body and head share the same HP pool so once it's depleted, the boss will fall.

Things went ok here for the most part. Justin kept getting paralyzed & move sealed during the better part of the last 1/3rd of the fight though.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,980
It is a bit surprising that no one has created a game with a similar battle system. Moving enemies and double and triple tech abilities. They probably have the technology to do it in 3D now. They just need to do it in some sort of isometric view.

Could've sworn there was a DS game that tried to do just that but failed horribly.
I remember playing a game that reminded me very very much of Chrono Trigger. Dark Sigil or something like that. Sadly it had a game ending bug ~10 hours in or so and put me off of trying to ever play it again.

Here it is: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ds/944570-black-sigil-blade-of-the-exiled/images/screen-20

Has pretty much the same UI, combo system too. I remember enjoying it a fair bit up until it fucked up.
 

MicoSelva

backlog digger
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Vigil's Keep
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
My favourite JRPG by far and one of my favourite games overall - maybe even top 3? I feel like it did right everything that Final Fantasy did wrong (at least for me). Finished it multiple times in the good old days of my SNES emulation gaming phase. Good times.
 

Siveon

Bot
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
4,509
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
It is a bit surprising that no one has created a game with a similar battle system. Moving enemies and double and triple tech abilities. They probably have the technology to do it in 3D now. They just need to do it in some sort of isometric view.

Could've sworn there was a DS game that tried to do just that but failed horribly.
I remember playing a game that reminded me very very much of Chrono Trigger. Dark Sigil or something like that. Sadly it had a game ending bug ~10 hours in or so and put me off of trying to ever play it again.

Here it is: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ds/944570-black-sigil-blade-of-the-exiled/images/screen-20

Has pretty much the same UI, combo system too. I remember enjoying it a fair bit up until it fucked up.

That's the one. But looking at it now, seems like it only failed when it came to the spit and polish. Looks like a nice attempt.

Of course, it had to compete with Chrono Trigger itself, poor thing.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
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Platypus Planet
It's a great game. The apex of SNES JRPGs and probably the apex of Square's glory. Sure they did great games after CT, but that was the moment when they hit the peak. It just took them a while to fall down from there.
 

Red Eye

Learned
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
315
It has a few flaws but really the SNES era was the high point for square and Chrono Trigger was the best of their SNES games.

It was just so well done. Enough of a story to keep you interested but not over the top story wise like later JRPGs. Plus no forced drama with a shitty protagonist.


Also felt that Magus was handled very well.

It had the sort of concept and basic story that modern Square would completely ruin
 

Ayreos

Augur
Joined
Feb 20, 2015
Messages
109
End point: it's an easy, simple RPG which appears far more complex than it is. That's why we love it.
Also, it did time travel right: if you go back in time and act nicely to someone, hundreds of years later their descendants will still look exactly the same, just like everything else in the world, but they will now be nicer too.

I think i'll go read "The End of Eternity" again now.
 

Athelas

Arcane
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,502
Grandia's battle system is the closest you'll get to CT's, I think.
Uhm, they have nothing in common. Grandia has a somewhat interesting and novel simultaneous turn-based system. Chrono Trigger just has the standard simplistic jRPG battle system, but with seamless battle transitions (which for some bizarre reason almost no other jRPG developer have decided to implement).
 

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