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Daggerfall, fucking Daggerfall

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
41,494
Location
Swedish Empire
I think the only way to reset the dungeon is to leave and reenter. It's why a cart is great to buy early on, you can access it and store loot in it WITHOUT leaving the dungeon. I usually place a teleport anchor at the entrance, both for a quick exit and for a quick dump-my-loot before adventuring forth again, all without resetting.

There are certain ways to make the starter dungeon easier, the most notorious being doing the questionnaire, and picking Ebony Dagger if you get that question. It makes the early game MUCH easier. Daggers don't do a huge amount of damage, but Ebony will IIRC bypass every immunity.

Keep an eye on your Language skills btw. If you're planning on playing it sneaky, know that, with high language, you can walk past enemies of that race without them becoming hostile (you don't talk to them, it's all automatic. It's like an automatic race-specific stealth mode). It makes some dungeons, especially ones you have to redo several times (like the orcish stronghold) a breeze.

You can even kill them sometimes without them aggroing on you, they'll just stand there taking your blade bewen their cheeks.
 

Deuce Traveler

2012 Newfag
Patron
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Okinawa, Japan
Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
I am now level 10 in Daggerfall and I can say this is the best crap game I've played in quite some time. I know there is a whole lot of love for this game, but I think a lot of that might be nostalgia. I know I'm one to talk, seeing as I keep insisting that people who haven't played Ultima IV should go out and give it a try. Still, I kept hearing that Daggerfall is the best game of the series and so far I can see reasons for why it is loved while struggling through its imperfections. Normally I would list all the positives and negatives in an itemized list, but right now I feel like explaining the good things and the bad things in a written narrative. Some things really come together in Daggerfall in a memorable way. But many other things seem badly or only partly implimented.

The game is not really a graphical improvement over Arena, but is instead enhanced in other ways. First, there are a lot more guilds with many a diverse quest to conduct. It truly is great to join multiple factions and move up the ranks, earning better benefits as you progress. You can also help out different royal families, currying favors in the court and earning wealth and magical items for your service. The Redguard areas and the northern regions look distinct from one another, and although you are adventuring in only a small section of Tamriel, the sense of scale makes the continent seem much bigger when compared to the previous game. The quests are a lot more interesting than in the previous game, and I've done work such as kidnapping, rescuing lost guild members, providing protection to people and towns, quests to avenge assassinated clients, searches for artifacts and so on. The bestiary also seems to have increased, and I've run into monsters not seen in Arena. All this is a marked improvement over Daggerfall's predecessor.

But while I praise the sense of scale, I also have to dismiss it as a bit of a trick. The dungeons seem very similar to one another with only small deviations. A castle and a tower that I had to explore had entire sections that looked the same as many of the underground dungeons I had already travelled through. And I do not mean the tiles. I'm talking about entire sections of a dungeon to include underground caverns, long stretches of corridors, and secret doors in the same locations. The guild quests at first seemed varied, but then your realize there are only a dozen or two in each faction, and that an auto-generate just changes the details up slightly. So I've been asked to go to a random town or dungeon several times in order to kill a random NPC many times, and same for rescuing a guild member from a dungeon, stealing an object from a temple, etc. So the game only gives an illusion of being so large through this automated quest generation.

The interface still sucks. You can change the keys, but the program is buggy and won't recognize my left mouse button for the swing weapon command. So often I am holding down the Z button, trying to move with the arrow keys, and moving my mouse to swing. Quite awkward. Again, I can rebind the keys, but haven't settled on a configuration I like. And I need to change it. I'm playing a thief-mage hybrid and I keep holding Alt to sneak, then press Enter to go from the movement mode to the manipulation mode, which actually makes me flip into windowed mode in DOSBox. This really sucks when I am in combat.

Being a full magic-user in this game sucks in comparison to Arena. In Arena you were a boss by the end of the game. In this game, magic is much more limited and potions that restore your spellpoints are harder to carry around. In Arena I carried dozens of them at one time, while in this game the weight of the potions results in me not being able to carry so many. I meant to depend more on my magic in this game, but because it's so hard to restore your spellpoints, I often depend on the trusty bow and sword, and I level up due to skill increases, so I've become more of a fighter with mage and thief skills. You can also rest in the fighter's guild, but not in the mage's guild, making it less likely to use a trainer to help build up the skill points in magic. I suppose I can just rest at the fighter's guild for 100 days and spam low level spells to improve my casting skill, but that seems kind of lame to me.

I spent most of my time trying to build up my character via the faction quests, but I'm quite bored of them by now. As a new recruit to the mage's guild, I was asked to go find some news about a magical outfit in a dungeon and to return and report. The quest took me forever, but when i finally found the notes about the item's location, I went back to town and then rested. I met the quest giver, but he didn't acknowledge the quest completion. I realized the quest wanted me to go and find the object itself and not just news of it, but by the time I went out and got it and returned, the quest giver said I was too late and kicked me out of the guild. Nice newbie quest, man... It took me a bit to get back into the mage's guilds good graces. I had just gotten excited about such quests again when I was told about a magical shield artifact. I spent hours exploring an unnecessarily huge dungeon in order to find the shield and bore it proudly to a tower holding an imprisoned sorceress I went to go free. I met a lich, who I guess was supposed to be quite tough, but his powerful spell just reflected off of my shield and killed him. Truly this artifact quest was more than worth the effort... then it broke soon after and disappeared from my inventory. I thought this was a bug and stopped playing just so I could figure out the fix. But nope. Artifacts only work for a short while and then they 'break' and disappear permanently. So screw the side quests. I'm ready to just get the main quest line over and be done.

This game is still extremely buggy. Monsters get generated on top of one another or inside furniture, jumping over chasms sometimes results in me falling forever through some tear in the fabric of space, my character sometimes will get his torso hung up on a platform, and the game just crashes for no reason.

I think mages get powerful later in this game only because the enemies they go against spam spells against them, and if a high level mage can cast magic absorption, he basically lets this happen in order to charge up his deadlier spells. In fact the enemy can do a lot of things the player can't. This includes spam magic attacks and breathe indefinitely underwater. I really hate it when your opponents don't share the same limitations of the player character.

The game improved on Arena by creating more realism with potions having weight and spellpoints being a bit more limited so you can't just spam magic all day. But because of this, it also lost quite a bit of the fun. And speaking of fun, the dungeons in Arena were also better. In the main quest, each had a story, with tidbits to discover hidden throughout. This one has more interesting background information in the main questline, but the dungeons are literally just copy and paste jobs.

To end on a good note, though, this game is tits. Oh, I'm sorry... I mean this game has tits. Lots of tits. A plethora of tits. Tits everywhere. I used to think that some of the modders went way out of their way to create nude patches for Oblivion and Skyrim, but now I realize they are just trying to return the game to its roots. I mean, go into the temples of lust or temples of air and you'll see what I mean. Hell, go to the government palaces and see what the residents have waiting for them in their bedrooms and you'll see what I mean. Some of those girls aren't wearing anything except collars. The poor things look cold. They need attention...
 

Pipeweed

Arcane
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
202
i find this control scheme very comfortable
1l3SeM9.png
 

Lonely Vazdru

Pimp my Title
Joined
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Messages
6,659
Location
Agen
I am now level 10 in Daggerfall... I'm ready to just get the main quest line over and be done.
Yes, I think you are ready. After reading your post it's still unclear for me if you a) didn't touch the main quest line yet, b) just scraped it, c) alternated between main and side quests. If it's a) or b) you're kind of playing it wrong, forget powergaming and leveling up, just play natural. The repetitive aspect of the randomly generated quests (which is undeniably there) is far less apparent, or at least appears later if you just go wherever your whim takes you, trying to follow the main quest along the way.
But if it's c), then the game just isn't your kind.

Normally I would list all the positives and negatives in an itemized list, but right now I feel like explaining the good things and the bad things in a written narrative.
See ? That's my Daggerfall. This game is not like the others.
 
Last edited:

Sceptic

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
10,872
Divinity: Original Sin
I think the biggest mistake one can make with Daggerfall is think that they have to accept every quest they're given. We're conditioned to do this because every single other RPG works like this. Daggerfall doesn't. If you're sick of dungeons and your guild is giving you a dungeon quest, decline it and pick a city quest instead. I can rise through the ranks of most guilds without ever setting foot in a dungeon; I think the only one that requires dungeoneering is the knight orders. Regarding the number of quests: you said yourself "only" two dozen quests per faction. There are like 10 factions in the game. If you're starting to see repetition after completing 200+ quests, I'd hardly call this "limited".

I don't agree with graphics comparing to Arena. It looks 10x better than Arena (which is a pixellated indecipherable mess), but more importantly the engine is a HUGE improvement. Arena's was basically a souped up Wolfenstein 3D engine. Daggerfall can actually deal with true 3D architecture. I think that was the most staggering difference, especially since not many games could this back then. I will as usual dismiss the nostalgia argument; I replay Daggerfall every 5 years or so and enjoy it every time. UI isn't great but it's MILES better than Arena's.

Magic is fine in Daggerfall. Blaming balance on DF is pretty unfair IMO. Just because Arena was completely broken when it comes to magic isn't a negative for Daggerfall, which deals with class balance much, MUCH better (in addition to having a much more interesting system to begin with). Arena was such stupid about magic. If you were a spellcasting class, you were invulnerable and could one-shot every single enemy in the game, as well as melt walls, skip entire dungeon levels, and generally sleepwalk through the game. If you weren't a spellcaster, some dungeons were literally impossible, with enemy spellcasters that fire spells at you with machine-gun speed and can kill you in under 2 seconds (not an exaggeration). In DF magic is very useful, it's just not stupidly overpowered.

Items (including artifacts) can be repaired, same as in Arena.

DF's bugginess is the stuff of legend. I hope you are using 2.13 and DQFIX.

Arena dungeons could be quite good, but DF's MQ ones also are. The problem is that pieces of them were recycled in the non-MQ dungeons, so you could end up feeling much of the MQ dungeon is very familiar. I didn't mind as much, but then I mix and match my activities a lot, so I don't get bored as easily. You really should've been doing that. Sticking to a singular activity, going "I'll do all city quests, then all dungeon faction quests, then all the MQ" is guaranteed to wear you out.

Like every TES before Oblivion, DF ditched some good aspect of the previous game and replaced it by improvements in other aspects. The faction system and the way factions affect each other has simply never been even attempted in another game. When I think "scale" I don't think "number of dungeons", I think "number of unique things to do in the game", and I don't think anything else has as many as DF does. Certainly not Arena, which was a completely linear dungeon crawl and where the problems with scale and repetition outside of the MQ dungeons was much, MUCH worse.
 

abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
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Fiernes
Potions are not needed. Mage with innate spell absorption absorb their own AoE spells. It's a bug that never got fixed.

And it's not that ridiculously OP as it sounds as against multiple spellcasting enemies you need to be careful against mana burn death.
 

Deuce Traveler

2012 Newfag
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Okinawa, Japan
Grab the Codex by the pussy Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
I am now level 10 in Daggerfall... I'm ready to just get the main quest line over and be done.
Yes, I think you are ready. After reading your post it's still unclear for me if you a) didn't touch the main quest line yet, b) just scraped it, c) alternated between main and side quests. If it's a) or b) you're kind of playing it wrong, forget powergaming and leveling up, just play natural. The repetitive aspect of the randomly generated quests (which is undeniably there) is far less apparent, or at least appears later if you just go wherever your whim takes you, trying to follow the main quest along the way.
But if it's c), then the game just isn't your kind.

I've been completing what I suppose are portions from the main quest, starting with meeting a Lady Brisienna. I smuggled some item out for the king of Daggerfall. I also have helped the queen at Daggerfall twice, once to make sure a relative was safe and another time to capture some letters for her, but that lead didn't really go anywhere. I helped a prince in Sentinel find some information about his missing brother, and in turn he gave me a lead I am now pursuing in order to free a former lover of the king. I could have helped a princess in Wayrest, but I'm trying to play a good character and what she had in mind seemed... not good.

The reasons I wanted to play the faction side quests were two-fold: one, to lengthen the game experience. And two, so I could get better benefits from the guilds and factions, such as being able to make my own magical weapons (something I'm still trying to achieve). The quests themselves seem strangely designed. For instance, for a knight's quest I had to kidnap a little girl for a witch, which resulted in me taking a reputation hit at least among children who don't react well to me anymore. The only reason why I think it was a knight's quest was because there was a shield award involved, rather than how inappropriate it was for the Knights of the Dragon to help witches. When I speak to chief of the knights, he expresses how much he hates magic-users. The mages guild keep sending me on assassination missions, which again seems strange for that guild to do. Every time I am sent on one of these, I get a chance to act against the guild, which seems stupid to do as the guild has a lot of benefits and the target can't offer a decent enough reward to do so. For temples, I'm a member of the Temple of Dibella, for obvious reasons (illusion, restoration, long blade, lockpicking, and streetwise skills of course... ;)). Haven't found the thieves guild or assassins guild yet.

This game seems to do a hybrid approach for level-scaling. I keep encountering harder enemies as I level up. On the other hand, the main quests seem to have more difficult enemies in final portions of the dungeons, such as liches that seem to be hard-wired into the quest itself. So if you are trying to aid the king's lover and are performing the quest early, you might have to face off against a lich while at only level 3 or 4 and still using a steel weapon, which would be useless against him. Anyway, there's definitely a lot to say about the game.
 

Nael

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
11,384
Location
Indy
I could have helped a princess in Wayrest, but I'm trying to play a good character and what she had in mind seemed... not good.

The outcome is neither good nor evil really. You're just playing matchmaker for Princess Morgiah and King of Worms.

You can fail her but if you do I am fairly sure you cannot finish the main quest. Completing her task puts you in good with the royal court to do more quests for the rest of the royal family.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
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Djibouti
Legit hint: LARPing good or evil in Daggerfall is absolutely counterproductive and WILL lead you to dead ends if you refuse main quests.
 

Nael

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
11,384
Location
Indy
Legit hint: LARPing good or evil in Daggerfall is absolutely counterproductive and WILL lead you to dead ends if you refuse main quests.

Exactly. The only thing that is based upon an evil choice is being recruited to the Dark Brotherhood after committing murder.
 

Lonely Vazdru

Pimp my Title
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Agen
you might have to face off against a lich while at only level 3 or 4
That, my friend, is the stuff of epic nightmares. I'll never forget the hiss of ancient vampires and I keep hearing that stock "creaking door opening" sound every now and then, in movies for instance.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
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Messages
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Location
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Liches are e-z. All you gotta do is reload long enough either for a miraculous saving throw to happen or for them to explode themselves with their own fireballs.

Vampire ancients, on the other hand...
 

baturinsky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,536
Location
Russia
Vampire ancients are easy if you have spell absorption and a spammable heal spell. But yes, they are easily most dangerous mob in the game.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
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Bjørgvin

abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
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Fiernes
Last time I played Daggerfall I owned everything with custom made Disintegrate spell. It instakills everything with high enough INT and WPR.

Banish Daedra and Dispel Undead are amusing as well, but make you miss out on lewt.
 

Casual Hero

Augur
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
489
Location
USA
Daggerfall is such a great game, but I understand all it's criticisms. But I just love picking it up every once in a while, because no other game I know gives me it's freedom. I love the climbing skill and scaling the city walls at night. -Always save first though, cuz you never know when you'll fall through the wall and be stuck inside of it. :P
The thing is, I never got far at all. One day I will actually play it for real.
 

bobdakilla

Literate
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
9
Hi everyone,

Sorry if I disturb you - I'm just a wanderer and I don't plan to stay for a long time.

...some of the quests have multiple solutions...
Hi Sceptic. Could you develop this statement and give a couple of examples ?
That would be nice, and I thank you in advance for your reply :)


Oh, by the way, english isn't my native language - so, don't hesitate to ask me to rephrase some of my sentences if that's necessary.
 

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