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Damn, early Gothic games were so good.

Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,110
I first played Gothic games when they came out. Accidentally stumbled on Gothic 1 in an Electronics Boutique or a Gamestop (I bet many newer Codex members don't even know what those were, or their foreign equivalents, Electrokurwa or whatever). Remembered reading some bullshit lukewarm reviews on mainstream sites, got it anyway super cheap. Came home, had mind blown.

I wasn't playing PC games back in 1992, when Ultima VII: The Black Gate came out, the game which inspired Gothics and many others, but even in early 2000s, even when compared with the all time greats such as Planescape, Fallouts, Baldur Gates, this game was doing such amazing things. Day-night cycle, NPC schedules, go-anywhere open world, good 3D graphics (for the time), different factions to join and rise in rank, and the list goes on.

Naturally, purchased Gothic 2 as soon as it came out and completed it. That experience wasn't that great though, because I went the mage route. While that starts off really well, with the Monastery admission and all of that, magic isn't really well done in this series, and the entire play-through was too easy. Only years later have I completed it as a swordsman and experienced its true glory.

But anyway, I have completed both several times by now, but the last time was years ago. And although I praise these games every chance I get, once several years pass, you tend to forget some of the details. I fired up Gothic 1 again today (the gog version), and was once again blown away by not just how good the game is, but by how easily it draws you in, considering its age, the unconventional interface, and ancient graphics.

I bet if you conducted a survey among modern RPG developers, most of them have probably never played Gothic 1 and 2. And yet, there are so many lessons in these old games that are extremely relevant today.

For example, Gothic 1 was one of the earliest games to have fully voiced dialogue. I recently played Dragon Age: Origins, and the difference between these two games in terms of dialogue is so stark. In Gothic 1, NPCs talk in short segments, very similar to the real world. They tell you small bits of information, without unnecessary flavor speech or endless exposition and/or lore. Most of what they say has to do with some task you need to do, or is some sort of specific information that is useful for what you need to do. So far, the only lore I saw was in the Intro movie. This is so refreshing compared to DA:O and many other modern games, where I feared to click on any merchant lest he launch into the intricacies of his family tree's centuries old history.

The other reason these games draw you in so easily and naturally is the absence of mind-numbing tutorials and modern accessories such as quest compasses and nanny journals. You listen to NPCs, they give you intelligent instructions, then you use your mind and eyes and figure stuff out. Not rocket science by any means, but very player agency enabling.

The exploration is also so good. Every time I replay these games, I find something new. This time in Gothic 1, I found a whole new starter area off the starting path. Not the one with single molerat, but there is another one you can climb a couple of platforms to get to, which has a whole bunch of junior mobs. Totally missed it on previous playthroughs if I remember correctly.

True gems, these couple of games.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
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This the one where you find a goblin or two on top with a sword?

Yeah, there is a goblin, couple of molerats, couple of scavengers. Some starter loot. It's a decently sized area, but because you can only get to it by climbing in a certain place, it's easy to miss. You also get a nice view of the river, forest, and old camp from there. Although, all these years later, it's better not to see the forest. 2000 era 3D forests...
 

Mustawd

Guest
For example, Gothic 1 was one of the earliest games to have fully voiced dialogue.

It's something of a wonder that the voice acting was even there to begin with. It wasn't very good, for one. I remember my friend and I laughing at the bizzare country accents in a medieval sort of setting. And like you said, it wasn't all that big part of the game anyhow.

Still the voice acting never really was all that immersion breaking to me...that's how good the rest of the game was.
 

Junmarko

† Cristo è Re †
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They really are great. Rediscovering them after years of ignorance is particularly satisfying. You just want to tell everyone :lol:
 

iZerw

Arcane
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Apr 18, 2012
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Russia
In the high school all my male classmates were playing 2 games: Arcanum and the first Gothic. Can you believe this?
:negative:
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
1,996
Yeah Gothic 1 and 2 were mindblowing. I remember being on a lanparty at a friend's house and instead of playing multiplayer stuff like Q3 or CS or UT we all just played Gothic 1 next to each other, it was that good. The moment when in G2 I went back into the colony..unforgettable. And that amazing music, god damn. Probably the only game to surpass first two Gothic games in the 3D RPG arena are Witcher series, whose strenght lies a bit elsewhere though.

I wish all the people who left Piranha would come back to make one more proper Gothic game..

ELEX looks terrible from everything I have seen of it :(
 

Keye_

Educated
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
78
They are indeed great. Two of the few games that did 'action-rpg' right.
What you said about the dialogue is very accurate. I never skipped a single line while playing these games, because everything they said was worth listening to.
Also, the amazing sense of character progression in these games is something that really stuck with me. That adventure from absolute zero to hero was always great. Really felt satisfying to get those great moments of payback on Lefty, etc. Or when you join the mercenaries in 2, everyone keeps calling you weak and doubts you, but after you start beating some of them up and doing some quests you gain their respect.
also: Gorn is the best bro.
 

Naraya

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Tuono-Tabr
I can't be the only one that doesn't care at all about VO in games, especially RPGs, can I...? In fact, I prefer the game not to have VO because hearing the VO makes it hard to focus on reading (especially in foreign language). I'm thinking PoE for example...
 

Orma

Arcane
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Torment: Tides of Numenera
Can never forget the first time i played gothic 2. Khorinis just felt really alive, don't think any other rpg managed that
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
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It's something of a wonder that the voice acting was even there to begin with. It wasn't very good, for one. I remember my friend and I laughing at the bizzare country accents in a medieval sort of setting. And like you said, it wasn't all that big part of the game anyhow.

Still the voice acting never really was all that immersion breaking to me...that's how good the rest of the game was.

I think maybe you misunderstood me a bit. I actually think that voice acting works excellently in Gothic, but one of the reasons is that it's so understated. Voiced dialogue is short and to the point, and practical as opposed to overly-dramatic, which is how other RPGs typically do it.

Voiced dialogue in first person or third person games actually does a lot to bring the games to life. This was one of the problems with Morrowind, its world seemed so dead due to the absence of speech (and some other things). In addition to dialogue voice overs, Gothic also has great background voice overs, as various NPCs chatter about minor things. While over time the stuff they say does get a bit repetitive, it still makes the settlements feel alive.

Probably the only game to surpass first two Gothic games in the 3D RPG arena are Witcher series, whose strenght lies a bit elsewhere though.

It's really hard to compare Gothics to Witchers. They are both European and have a third person perspective with a pre-made protagonist, and also share some elements (day/night cycle, NPC schedules), but they are completely different in most important ways. Witcher games have amazing lore and really good writing, but their gameplay leaves a lot to be desired. Gothic 1/2, on the other hand, were almost the opposite, with excellent gameplay and simply functional writing.

I wish all the people who left Piranha would come back to make one more proper Gothic game..

ELEX looks terrible from everything I have seen of it :(

Yeah, after Gothic 1/2, it's all been downhill. Risen 1 is the only game that came close, by copying a lot of G1/2 stuff, but even there, they managed to mess up by making it worse in various ways.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
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The exploration is also so good. Every time I replay these games, I find something new. This time in Gothic 1, I found a whole new starter area off the starting path. Not the one with single molerat, but there is another one you can climb a couple of platforms to get to, which has a whole bunch of junior mobs. Totally missed it on previous playthroughs if I remember correctly.

It is actually the only hidden area in the whole game, if you don't count the waterfall cave and maybe the cave north the Old Camp on the cliff.
 

Mustawd

Guest
I actually think that voice acting works excellently in Gothic, but one of the reasons is that it's so understated. Voiced dialogue is short and to the point, and practical as opposed to overly-dramatic, which is how other RPGs typically do it.

I don't think the voice acting in terms of technicality is very good at all. You're talking more about the scripted dialogue, which I do agree is well done. But the acting was never beyond "good" and many times it went into "crappy"

Voiced dialogue in first person or third person games actually does a lot to bring the games to life. This was one of the problems with Morrowind, its world seemed so dead due to the absence of speech (and some other things).


Lol, agree to disagree there. Often times voice acting in general is bad in RPGs and immersion breaking to me. If I had a choice, I'd always turn off all voice acting so I could read rather than listen to some crappy two bit out of work actor butcher every single one of their lines.

In addition to dialogue voice overs, Gothic also has great background voice overs, as various NPCs chatter about minor things. While over time the stuff they say does get a bit repetitive, it still makes the settlements feel alive.

I do agree with this, but I'd say this falls more into general ambiance rather than voice acting. And it's also not required to have voice acting in order to have these types of background sounds. Like if you walk into a taver, the general sounds of a tavern do enough to give a sense of the place as a real location with life.


anyhow, my point is that the voice acting in Gothic was pretty meh and downright LOL at times, but the structure of the dialogue and the rest of the game helped mitigate those flaws. To actually point it out as a feature and pro is really weird to me.
 

sullynathan

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Day-night cycle, NPC schedules, go-anywhere open world, good 3D graphics (for the time), different factions to join and rise in rank, and the list goes on.
Gothic was doing things few open world games did yet Morrowind gets all the credit in the mainstream even though Gothic technically released first.
 

waveplay

Literate
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
17
Day-night cycle, NPC schedules, go-anywhere open world, good 3D graphics (for the time), different factions to join and rise in rank, and the list goes on.
Gothic was doing things few open world games did yet Morrowind gets all the credit in the mainstream even though Gothic technically released first.
Gothic is 10x the game Morrowind is. I'm frustrated anytime I see people laud Morrowind like it's the best open-world RPG of all time when they most likely have never even heard of the Gothic series.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Joined
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I can't be the only one that doesn't care at all about VO in games, especially RPGs, can I...? In fact, I prefer the game not to have VO because hearing the VO makes it hard to focus on reading (especially in foreign language). I'm thinking PoE for example...
Generally read too fast for go to keep up. I just listen long enough to know what the voices are like. G1 was awesome in that regard especially Diego's voice.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,110
I don't think the voice acting in terms of technicality is very good at all. You're talking more about the scripted dialogue, which I do agree is well done. But the acting was never beyond "good" and many times it went into "crappy"

I get what you are saying, with cheap voice actors that sound like rednecks, but to me, that's actually a plus, because I figure in a medieval prison colony, most people would sound like "rednecks", so even if the accent is off or what not, at least it sounds more believable than the typical Shakespearean/LARP accent/speech.
 
Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot
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tl:dr so:

Find: combat

zero results.

of course.
 

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