Perkel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 15,859
Going back to lore.
Holy hell i think DS3 lore is as good as DS1 lore or should i say this is just continuation of DS1 lore.
What is also amazing is that shitload of stuff was telegraphed in DS1 to be resolved here. Gwyn firsborn for example was the one who either started Sunbro or was following him covenant but later on he betrayed Gwyn and joined dragons, naturally this caused Gwyn or his followers to errase all traces of him from royal family history. This is why in DS1 there are destroyed or missing figures in anor londo and why Sunbro covenant altar is always smashed. Because it depicts Nameless king with his prototype spear.
Also i wonder why they made lothric last pre cinder boss instead of Aldrich. What i mean by that is that Sulyvanh is character that basically is central to events of DS3. He was the one who convinced prince to not link the fire which started events of DS3 and rise from graves previous people who linked fire. Ashen ones also rose from ashes of people who linked fire earlier and player is one of them (due to DLC we know that there were more). He was the one who basically started royal family of lothric on path of war with itself. What i didn't find earlier is that Lothric castle was in state of civil war. Royal family fought with themselves and this is why you see winged knights who protect Gertrude/Rosaria from Lothric knights and why Lothric is barricaded. Also state of Cathedral changed as you see that Rosaria herself and her followers fight civil war as people who she raised are nailed to her chamber walls and her place looks like someone tried to get in forcefully (bent bars). He was the one also the one who basically fed Aldrich and was one of the blades of darkmoon which from inside managed to usurp anor londo.
Finally DS3 reveals a lot about way of white and Gwynevre and ultimate goal of player character in game. DS1 already outright said that Gwynevre has gone to some cold realm (irithyl) and married that nation king. Like Gwyn she tried everything to make humans link the fire so she and her family can live on. But due to different fuckups and events of DS1 she basically became mistress to last power in Anor Londo seath (which is why she bore Priscilla and Yorishka) that get her nowhere as Seath opposed linking of fire. In Irrythyl she bore Gertrude/Rosaria, Dancer, two princes and crossbreed baby while Oceiros was transformed into seath like mutant and once Sulyvanh convinced price to not link fire and civil war broke out in family which existed to link fire (statues everywhere in lothric points out that this was their family fate) she one last time tried to find undead to link fire and she eventually left again as her plan gone to shit. Way of the white is Gwynevre covenant which is steered into linking of fire and serving gods.
Now since we know now everything about humanity in DS lore we can see perfectly that Gods use players to basically prolong their existence while at the same time stopping age of men which is triggered by dark ending in DS1 or more properly explained usurp the fire ending in DS3. Rise of mankind as lords only to themselves is sybolised when player looks like he is holding black sun but that sun actually rises up with player:
(look closely at the black sun, btw Anri is still "alive" after that wedding)
and this signals start of true age of men not just dark age like in DS1 in which fire was probably restarted by some event but age in which gods are no longer and man uses fire only for his own end not gods.
So that means that if you link the fire in every DS game it basically means bad ending as you prolong basically enslavement of humans at same time forcing people to serve gods.
edit:
This also explains a lot about DS2 Nashandra and Vendrik. Vendrick tried to usurp fire and he failed. Nashandra wanted to do to player what player does to anri in DS3.
I also like how DS3 fools you into thinking that watchdogs of farron are actually undead legion themselves and when you join that covenant you think you serve same goal as Artorias to keep abyss at bay. Their lore is also pretty awesome.
Gist of it is that Undead legion is no more. Watchdogs on other hand are just guards of graves of those who tried to fight abys like Artrorias. So when you join that covenant you are not undead legion you are just gravekeeper. Since they are no more Oolacile fell into ruin progressively taken by Abyss even more than in time of DS1 DLC which is why there are darkwriths there. Grus you fight are members of oolacile population you fought in DS1DLC.
Also giant that helped you take down Kalameet is the giant on that tower. He also doesn't randomly shoot arrows. HE shoot anyone who tries to endanger those white trees which were princess of oolacile grave (why there are few in a moment)
As for Undead Legion itself which is represented only by that lord you fight they were pretty much Marines of 40k. They sunk whole kingdoms in blood if they spoted corruption (aka Abyss taking its root). Which is why after faron keep you explore Catacombs of Carthus. Which is briliant imo. Carthus was one of the kingdoms that Undead Legion anihilated. Wolnyr was king of that kingdom which played with Abyss only he managed to keep it at bay to not completely swollow him via his braces and sword you destroy in fight and then his is dragged and finally consumed by Abyss.
Now last important puzzle piece are those questions:
- Why Carthus lies under Ooacile ?
- Why Anor Londo is in Irrythyl
- Why Undead Settlement and Lothric castle don't "fit" like Lothric castle suddenly was risen on a mountain
- Why Izalith is under Carthus which is under Oolacile ?
- Why you step into Firelink Shrine past ?
Answer to that puzzle is literally in Kiln of the first flame near the end. When you go out of that Kiln you see that world world is jumbled and mashed together like spagetti. I thought at first that simply world is ruined but when you look at it closely it isn't ruined but more like mixed.
DS1 and whole summon system already rely on paralel worlds thus DS3 take place where those worlds converge (due to not linking fire for a long time) thus why some of those unrelated places like Carthus is under Farron Keep where in reality it was far away desert kingdom and so on. Same thing happens to Yorm and rest of people who linked fire and to player itself who is created from Ash of people who linked fire.
edit2:
Also ton of people omit NPC storylines. They always were important but in DS3 they are main part of story. Each of bosses you fight is tied to character. Siegward was friend with Yorm and Yorm ordered him to kill him if he strays from his path, Anri with Horace were only children who survived being sent as sacrifices (probably from undead settlement) to Aldrich and they are set to avenge their friends who were eaten. Hawkwood was one of actual Undead Legion members but due to his fighting style deserted or was chased out of Legion and he never made peace with that, in game he wallows over what to do with Undead Legion until you kill them at which point he mades his mind and tried to follow Firstborn instead and became a dragon. Finally player who rose as Ashen One from ashes of previous lords of cinder who linked fire because Lothric didn't want to link fire.
edit3:
DLC lore is also great:
Holy hell i think DS3 lore is as good as DS1 lore or should i say this is just continuation of DS1 lore.
What is also amazing is that shitload of stuff was telegraphed in DS1 to be resolved here. Gwyn firsborn for example was the one who either started Sunbro or was following him covenant but later on he betrayed Gwyn and joined dragons, naturally this caused Gwyn or his followers to errase all traces of him from royal family history. This is why in DS1 there are destroyed or missing figures in anor londo and why Sunbro covenant altar is always smashed. Because it depicts Nameless king with his prototype spear.
Also i wonder why they made lothric last pre cinder boss instead of Aldrich. What i mean by that is that Sulyvanh is character that basically is central to events of DS3. He was the one who convinced prince to not link the fire which started events of DS3 and rise from graves previous people who linked fire. Ashen ones also rose from ashes of people who linked fire earlier and player is one of them (due to DLC we know that there were more). He was the one who basically started royal family of lothric on path of war with itself. What i didn't find earlier is that Lothric castle was in state of civil war. Royal family fought with themselves and this is why you see winged knights who protect Gertrude/Rosaria from Lothric knights and why Lothric is barricaded. Also state of Cathedral changed as you see that Rosaria herself and her followers fight civil war as people who she raised are nailed to her chamber walls and her place looks like someone tried to get in forcefully (bent bars). He was the one also the one who basically fed Aldrich and was one of the blades of darkmoon which from inside managed to usurp anor londo.
Finally DS3 reveals a lot about way of white and Gwynevre and ultimate goal of player character in game. DS1 already outright said that Gwynevre has gone to some cold realm (irithyl) and married that nation king. Like Gwyn she tried everything to make humans link the fire so she and her family can live on. But due to different fuckups and events of DS1 she basically became mistress to last power in Anor Londo seath (which is why she bore Priscilla and Yorishka) that get her nowhere as Seath opposed linking of fire. In Irrythyl she bore Gertrude/Rosaria, Dancer, two princes and crossbreed baby while Oceiros was transformed into seath like mutant and once Sulyvanh convinced price to not link fire and civil war broke out in family which existed to link fire (statues everywhere in lothric points out that this was their family fate) she one last time tried to find undead to link fire and she eventually left again as her plan gone to shit. Way of the white is Gwynevre covenant which is steered into linking of fire and serving gods.
Now since we know now everything about humanity in DS lore we can see perfectly that Gods use players to basically prolong their existence while at the same time stopping age of men which is triggered by dark ending in DS1 or more properly explained usurp the fire ending in DS3. Rise of mankind as lords only to themselves is sybolised when player looks like he is holding black sun but that sun actually rises up with player:
(look closely at the black sun, btw Anri is still "alive" after that wedding)
and this signals start of true age of men not just dark age like in DS1 in which fire was probably restarted by some event but age in which gods are no longer and man uses fire only for his own end not gods.
So that means that if you link the fire in every DS game it basically means bad ending as you prolong basically enslavement of humans at same time forcing people to serve gods.
edit:
This also explains a lot about DS2 Nashandra and Vendrik. Vendrick tried to usurp fire and he failed. Nashandra wanted to do to player what player does to anri in DS3.
I also like how DS3 fools you into thinking that watchdogs of farron are actually undead legion themselves and when you join that covenant you think you serve same goal as Artorias to keep abyss at bay. Their lore is also pretty awesome.
Gist of it is that Undead legion is no more. Watchdogs on other hand are just guards of graves of those who tried to fight abys like Artrorias. So when you join that covenant you are not undead legion you are just gravekeeper. Since they are no more Oolacile fell into ruin progressively taken by Abyss even more than in time of DS1 DLC which is why there are darkwriths there. Grus you fight are members of oolacile population you fought in DS1DLC.
Also giant that helped you take down Kalameet is the giant on that tower. He also doesn't randomly shoot arrows. HE shoot anyone who tries to endanger those white trees which were princess of oolacile grave (why there are few in a moment)
As for Undead Legion itself which is represented only by that lord you fight they were pretty much Marines of 40k. They sunk whole kingdoms in blood if they spoted corruption (aka Abyss taking its root). Which is why after faron keep you explore Catacombs of Carthus. Which is briliant imo. Carthus was one of the kingdoms that Undead Legion anihilated. Wolnyr was king of that kingdom which played with Abyss only he managed to keep it at bay to not completely swollow him via his braces and sword you destroy in fight and then his is dragged and finally consumed by Abyss.
Now last important puzzle piece are those questions:
- Why Carthus lies under Ooacile ?
- Why Anor Londo is in Irrythyl
- Why Undead Settlement and Lothric castle don't "fit" like Lothric castle suddenly was risen on a mountain
- Why Izalith is under Carthus which is under Oolacile ?
- Why you step into Firelink Shrine past ?
Answer to that puzzle is literally in Kiln of the first flame near the end. When you go out of that Kiln you see that world world is jumbled and mashed together like spagetti. I thought at first that simply world is ruined but when you look at it closely it isn't ruined but more like mixed.
DS1 and whole summon system already rely on paralel worlds thus DS3 take place where those worlds converge (due to not linking fire for a long time) thus why some of those unrelated places like Carthus is under Farron Keep where in reality it was far away desert kingdom and so on. Same thing happens to Yorm and rest of people who linked fire and to player itself who is created from Ash of people who linked fire.
edit2:
Also ton of people omit NPC storylines. They always were important but in DS3 they are main part of story. Each of bosses you fight is tied to character. Siegward was friend with Yorm and Yorm ordered him to kill him if he strays from his path, Anri with Horace were only children who survived being sent as sacrifices (probably from undead settlement) to Aldrich and they are set to avenge their friends who were eaten. Hawkwood was one of actual Undead Legion members but due to his fighting style deserted or was chased out of Legion and he never made peace with that, in game he wallows over what to do with Undead Legion until you kill them at which point he mades his mind and tried to follow Firstborn instead and became a dragon. Finally player who rose as Ashen One from ashes of previous lords of cinder who linked fire because Lothric didn't want to link fire.
edit3:
DLC lore is also great:
Basically painted world also works in cycles and it is actually self contained which means that it doesn't care what is happening outside of it as even if world outside vanishes this world will be fine.
This time it is about "rot" (it is a painting duh !). Even in time of DS1 "rot" was already present in painting in form of that rotted dragon and bloated people but DLC is in later stage of rot. Though painted world of Ariamis is different than Painted world of Ariandel. Because it isn't same cycle. Painted world of Ariamis was later on repainted by Ariandel from this DLC. Those feathered beast you fought in DS1 in painted world are now also rotting away, they don't have their feathers anymore and they are basically enslaved to Frieda and Ariandel who stopped cycles of painted world.
They also locked away daughter of Priscilla who could repaint this world who comes back to paint after you take down Frieda and Ariandel at which point DLC ends suggesting there will be later part of this and continuation of that DLC.
Most interesting part is Frieda, which isn't actually named frieda but Elfrieda, sister to Yuria of Londor and she is actually first Ashen One. Like Yuria and Liliana (which isn't present in game) she founded church of hollows together in Londor and works toward usurpation of fire though she strayed from that path and ended up in painting world which brings forlorn souls to it. She came to painted world and convinced Ariandel that cycles shouldn't continue and rot should take in like in case of hollowing. Those monsters with claws are actually those feathered beast that actually embraced rot.
I wonder where new DLC will be set in though. I feel like this naturally will have something to do with priscilla child and "uncle" who send you to painted world. Since main game already talk a lot about londor and in DLC you actually see sister of yuria then it is possible that maybe we will see actually londor itself and last sister.
Also sulyvhan was born in painted world.
This time it is about "rot" (it is a painting duh !). Even in time of DS1 "rot" was already present in painting in form of that rotted dragon and bloated people but DLC is in later stage of rot. Though painted world of Ariamis is different than Painted world of Ariandel. Because it isn't same cycle. Painted world of Ariamis was later on repainted by Ariandel from this DLC. Those feathered beast you fought in DS1 in painted world are now also rotting away, they don't have their feathers anymore and they are basically enslaved to Frieda and Ariandel who stopped cycles of painted world.
They also locked away daughter of Priscilla who could repaint this world who comes back to paint after you take down Frieda and Ariandel at which point DLC ends suggesting there will be later part of this and continuation of that DLC.
Most interesting part is Frieda, which isn't actually named frieda but Elfrieda, sister to Yuria of Londor and she is actually first Ashen One. Like Yuria and Liliana (which isn't present in game) she founded church of hollows together in Londor and works toward usurpation of fire though she strayed from that path and ended up in painting world which brings forlorn souls to it. She came to painted world and convinced Ariandel that cycles shouldn't continue and rot should take in like in case of hollowing. Those monsters with claws are actually those feathered beast that actually embraced rot.
I wonder where new DLC will be set in though. I feel like this naturally will have something to do with priscilla child and "uncle" who send you to painted world. Since main game already talk a lot about londor and in DLC you actually see sister of yuria then it is possible that maybe we will see actually londor itself and last sister.
Also sulyvhan was born in painted world.
Last edited:
