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From Software Dark Souls 3

nomask7

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
7,620
It is part of PvP part of From wanting people get out of sword and board mentality.
With bloodborne they already removed shields completely.

They couldn't do it with DS3 due to DS being more medevil warfare oriented but DS3 features the least amount of shields with 100% damage reduction from all DS games and shields that do exist usually have lower stability than before.
But if you would look from shield side only that would be only half of the answer.

Most of monsters in DS3 now are waaaay more aggressive than before and most of them punishes dudes with shields. Both DS1 and DS2 featured not really a lot of enemies that could go through your shield just with physical attacks.

Meanwhile in DS3 when you start game Winged Knight, Lothric Knights, those dudes with machetes, clericks all have enough strong chain attacks that will quickly destroy your stamina. Bosses also are grab happy unlike before and many of them mix physical with different elements.

So playing like in DS1 and DS2 sword and board style is much harder than before.
Finally due to changes to combat system (weapon arts made specifically to destroy shields) and poise being attacker is even more effective than hiding behind shield.

I didn't have much trouble with a shield tank (combined with appropriate footwork of course), outside a couple of late game bosses. Even the phase 1 grab attack by the Dancer, I just avoided by never staying close to her for long. You don't need to roll to avoid it.

I already used a lot of footwork in DS2, so I don't know, I just haven't noticed any great leap in difficulty for a shield tank between DS2 and DS3. Maybe if you just stand still and keep your shield up, but who plays like that?
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,010
The thing is if you're going to use shields that precisely, you may as well just parry everything instead. The whole point of blocking is that you can do it pre-emptively without knowing what the enemy will do and remain safe. That isn't the case any more, you're better off doing pretty much anything else to at least avoid the shield break mega damage.
 

nomask7

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
7,620
Also, you're clearly meant to avoid some of the monsters in the first post-tutorial area of DS3, you're not meant to rofl stomp them by rolling. There's no comparable non-boss challenge in the next several areas, if at all, so I'm not sure why some people insist on engaging them instead of avoiding them.

As for DS2, there's that knight with a giant hammer in the first post-tutorial area, so if you want to come up with enemies that are difficult to deal with without rolling, that would be one such enemy from DS2.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,010
I mean, the only one that really qualifies there is the red eyed knight, and even he's pretty killable if you open up with a good backstab. And the dragon, I guess, if you can call that an enemy. It's basically just there as a trap you have the option of cheesing for a lot of free souls.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
Just completed the DLC and... I would go beyond underwhelming and say it's actually pretty bad. Did it entirely offline so messages couldn't spoil anything for me, since just seeing one on the ground usually ruins the surprise. There was nothing in the entire place that felt memorable, challenging, or like I was ever running a gauntlet. Just a wide open area of mobs. None of the enemies were particularly unique, and the Millwood knights were just a pain in the ass because of a maximal stagger of 2 hits. The Evil Dead rape trees could have been so much more. Throw a Firebomb, mash R1, and collect souls. Or even easier, have fire on your weapon, mash r1, collect souls.

Think Friede took like 5 or 6 tries, and I probably would have done it in 2 or 3 if I weren't using the Astora Greatsword. Weapon art absolutely SHREDS her in Phase 1 if you find her after a jump (~2,100 damage with it + followup charged R2), but large weapons in phase 3 and to a lesser extent 2 are a liability. Most of your attacks end up with you taking counter damage because of the recovery following a swing. Not being able to see her heal Ariandel in phase 2 because she was...standing inside him was total bullshit. Phase 3 was a boring rollfest that really belonged in Bloodborne. I counted 8 attacks, and thus 8 rolls in a row as that was the length of her combo. Absolutely ridiculous. Since she can link several different attacks together to form multiple combos there are times when you have to guess your roll rather than time it. For example after her first horizontal swipe she will either pull back and immediately swipe, or pull back, then delay and swipe. To dodge the former, I had to immediately roll again following my first roll or else I would take the scythe to the face. However, if I do this, the delayed swipe would catch me at the end of my roll before I could roll a third time. Playing a guessing game with action combat is stupid. Maybe I just suck.

After killing her and feeling let down, I didn't even want to fight the Gravetender and Wolf, but I said fuck it and went ahead and did it anyway. Beat him first attempt, and as usual human enemies cheat. There's no way in Hell Valorheart has the stability to withstand 3 2h UGS swings with the Knightslayer ring equipped and still have stamina to weapon art. The Greatwolf felt more like Royal Rat Authority than Sif, and managed to have even shittier hitboxes, and even had the same headbutt / charge which fucked your camera entirely. If they were gonna go for Artorias fan service, they should have gone the whole 9 instead of what they gave us. Jumping down the vines felt too reminiscent of the Great Tree from DS1. It's like they just took random areas from the first game and jammed them together and hoped it would work.

All of this was done at SL 95, which is probably considered too high but fuck it, I like heavy armor.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,010
Funny you mention the stamina cheating, because I was using a great hammer, and I think it only took 2-3 hits to break shield guard. I think enemies don't use stamina to attack, only for holding shields.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,084
There's two reasons because From decided to make the combat more fast paced and aggresive in Bloodborne and in Dark sword 3. One and mainly, because they want to decrease the static and defensive playstyle that existed in the previous games (One of the reasons about why they started to mess up with the poise system since Dark souls). They wanted to add variety to the series and they started by nerfing heavy armors. In Dark souls 2 they created the adaptability, which changed how poise and rolling worked. The second reason is because is more flashy and sell games. From is bigger today than they were back in 2009. In good and bad ways.

Actually there is only one reason. They are imbeciles.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
Actually it's too low. Most players went there at 100+.

That seems absolutely ludicrous for NG, but makes sense that a 3 phase fight would expect you to have 12 - 15 flasks.

...This is also my third time playing through the game, and the third time I've gotten bored by the time I reach the Dragonslayer Armor / Grand Archives. I don't know if it's me, or what, but I have more of a desire to install DS1 and go through another play of that instead.
 

nomask7

Arcane
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Messages
7,620
That seems absolutely ludicrous for NG, but makes sense that a 3 phase fight would expect you to have 12 - 15 flasks.

...This is also my third time playing through the game, and the third time I've gotten bored by the time I reach the Dragonslayer Armor / Grand Archives. I don't know if it's me, or what, but I have more of a desire to install DS1 and go through another play of that instead.

Get PS4 and Bloodborne. Don't be a cheap fuck all your life, mate.
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
I beat it twice already. Haven't played The Old Hunters yet and have been avoiding using my ps4 because Sony sucks and my info was stolen. Gotta keep pestering them to fix my shit.
 
Last edited:

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,084
Actually it's too low. Most players went there at 100+.

That seems absolutely ludicrous for NG, but makes sense that a 3 phase fight would expect you to have 12 - 15 flasks.

...This is also my third time playing through the game, and the third time I've gotten bored by the time I reach the Dragonslayer Armor / Grand Archives. I don't know if it's me, or what, but I have more of a desire to install DS1 and go through another play of that instead.

It's ok. I lose any interest when I go down the stairs to the swamp level.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,234
Actually it's too low. Most players went there at 100+.

That seems absolutely ludicrous for NG, but makes sense that a 3 phase fight would expect you to have 12 - 15 flasks.

...This is also my third time playing through the game, and the third time I've gotten bored by the time I reach the Dragonslayer Armor / Grand Archives. I don't know if it's me, or what, but I have more of a desire to install DS1 and go through another play of that instead.
so you get bored after reaching penultimate level in game? lol i wish i could say the same about DS1. I reached Anor Londo with about 20 different characters but killed Gwyn only like 3 times. DS2 is still best in terms of replayability:obviously:
 

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
Except I haven't even killed Oceiros or done Archdragon Peak. Getting a Black Knight Sword in Undead Burg, and cruising through the entirety of the game as GiantDad is so satisfying. Shrugging off hits from Ornstein & Smough is fun. It was great being able to get weapons like the Demon Greathammer, or Black Knight Sword / Halberd in the first 2, then building around them to just smash the entirety of the game.

3 gives you...an Uchigatana.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,010
To be fair, by the time you've played the other games through to the end, an uchigatana is plenty to faceroll the game.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
Except I haven't even killed Oceiros or done Archdragon Peak. Getting a Black Knight Sword in Undead Burg, and cruising through the entirety of the game as GiantDad is so satisfying. Shrugging off hits from Ornstein & Smough is fun. It was great being able to get weapons like the Demon Greathammer, or Black Knight Sword / Halberd in the first 2, then building around them to just smash the entirety of the game.

3 gives you...an Uchigatana.
You can still use the black Knight sword very effectively. I did so in my 3rd playthrough
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,234
Except I haven't even killed Oceiros or done Archdragon Peak. Getting a Black Knight Sword in Undead Burg, and cruising through the entirety of the game as GiantDad is so satisfying. Shrugging off hits from Ornstein & Smough is fun. It was great being able to get weapons like the Demon Greathammer, or Black Knight Sword / Halberd in the first 2, then building around them to just smash the entirety of the game.

3 gives you...an Uchigatana.
GiantDad with BKGS and not chaos zweihander :M

iur


3 gives you Astora Straight Sword you can infuse with raw already in High wall and than proceed to stunlock/rape everything without even raising STR/DEX:bounce:
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
I usually zone out as soon as I get to swamp after road of sacrifices (farron's keep/swamp thing).

That area is terrible and after the initial LOL of the giant crab it's just a slog/nuisance IMO. I think I need to just run through it and not bother looking for loot.

Anyway, haven't tried the DLC yet. Mostly forgot what my chars in the base game are doing/where they are -- and it's probably been patched enough that my builds are irrelevant. I think I'll make a new char and try to run through it during thanksgiving break. I can't say I'm looking forward to it, but it seems retarded to buy the fucking dlc and not play it (though I bought it pre-launch, so already retarded to begin with.)
 

Talby

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
5,510
Codex USB, 2014
I was thinking about what minimal Dark Souls game would be, so here is an idea of one-button Dark Souls.

You have one button - Attack. Attack takes some time (~1sec), during which you are vulnerable. If during this time enemy does not attack too, you score and enemy loses HP. If he DOES attack, then your attack is interrupted, and YOU are damaged. If you are attacked when not attacking yourself, you automatically block, receiving no damage.

Enemy attacks in pattern - same one each time, or he can have several patterns that he uses back-to-back, choosing randomly. Patterns can be generated procedurally.

Gameplay is basically learning the patterns and finding openings in them.

Graphics can be very simple, or there can be no graphics at all - it can be all done with just sounds.

Make this into a phone game and you'll be rich. Call it iSouls.
 

Talby

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
5,510
Codex USB, 2014
Video about the upcoming PvP changes, looks like DS3 will be a pretty different game once all the DLC is out;
 

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