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From Software Dark Souls 3

Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
150
Was playing it yesterday- and I don't know what the hell are you on about.

I understood perfectly, and i don't know what this video brings to the discussion, the whole lot of variety in terms of mechanics, builds and weapons that Dark Souls 2 has is acknowledged already, the problem are the fundamentals, the basic animations, what compromises all the rest.

f anything DeS is Dark Souls III's Alpha version.

This is accurate though, Dark Souls 3 is by far the best combat, too bad the rest of the game is shit.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
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Messages
23,731
Dark Souls 3 has some of the most boring areas.

No Tower of Latria

No Tomb of the Giants

No crazy awesome DLC

No Hunter's Dream or Nightmares

Nope, Dark Souls 3 is pretty "safe" and boring.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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Platypus Planet
Uhhh. Tower of Latria, Tomb of the Giants, Earthen Peak and Research Hall.
A-há! You forgot DaS3 completely!

See, that's what I'm trying to say the whole time. When you think back on the memorable parts of the series, DaS3 don't even figure in them. Just like Fallout 3 or Oblivion.

I didn't forget DaS3, I just thought we were excluding it because you didn't bring it up. Not that it helps DaS3 much anyway. Irithyll of the Boreal Valley is the nicest looking area in DaS3, but like every other area, it feels short and lacks real level design so it's pretty forgettable once you get over the comfy feel of the area. And DaS2 did the whole ice kingdom better anyway. Hell, the entrance to Forsaken Cainhurst is more memorable than all of Irithyll. That's how deep down the barrel I feel like I have to dig to get anything out of DaS3.
 

Silva

Arcane
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Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Yeah, I remember getting to that Yrithill view out of the Cathacombs and feeling like "I should be amazed by the scenery right now, I think?" Oh okay.

P.S: The most memorable part in series is the beginning of DS going (with no signposts whatsoever to help you) from firelink shrine through undead burg and to parish then finding the shortcut back to firelink, in total solitude, with the sole voices you hear being the depressive mumbles of the crestfallen and the lunatic TEE HEE HEE of the skull vendor.

Oh the memories.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
150
Yeah, I remember getting to that Yrithill view out of the Cathacombs and feeling like "I should be amazed by the scenery right now, I think?" Oh okay.

P.S: The most memorable part in series is the beginning of DS going (with no signposts whatsoever to help you) from firelink shrine through undead burg and to parish then finding the shortcut back to firelink, in total solitude, with the sole voices you hear being the depressive mumbles of the crestfallen and the lunatic TEE HEE HEE of the skull vendor.

Oh the memories.

Yeah, i thought "this is the Anor Londo of this game i guess", probably what they tried to evoke anyway, it was nice but cheap at the same time because all this game does is mimmick, Dragon Aerie in Dark Souls 2 amazed and still felt original.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
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Messages
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The only redeeming factor to Dark Souls 3 was mad (purple) co-op covenant.

Get summoned as a "friendly", help the host, backstab him at the best time.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,550
Well, what's your stance on it? Even if DSIII was a garbage fire, it'd still be a pretty standout game if it wasn't for the legacy.

I've only beat the tutorial boss, heh.

Is the game shit in itself or is it shit because there's nothing new in it? Because frankly i'm not as anal about games having to reinvent the wheel with each iteration. I'd be fine with a glorified expansion (maybe not if i'd paid full price for this, but i didn't, so whatever).
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
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Not Europe
My favorite areas
Demon's Souls
Stonefang Tunnel, Boletarian Palace, Tower of Latria
Dark Souls
Undead Burg, Anor Londo, Painted World of Ariamis, Oolacile Sanctuary, Blight Town, Sen's Fortress
DARK SOULS II: Scholar of the First Sin
No-Man's Wharf, Huntsmans Copse, The Gutter, Shulva - Sanctum city, Brume Tower, Frozen Eleum Loyce
Bloodborne
Cathedral Ward, Hemwick Charnel Lane, Central Yharnam, Nightmare of Mensis, Forsaken Cainhurst Castle
DARK SOULS III
Cathedral of the Deep, Profaned Capital / Irithyll Dungeon, Grand Archives, Anor Londo, Lothric Castle

Is the game shit in itself or is it shit because there's nothing new in it? Because frankly i'm not as anal about games having to reinvent the wheel with each iteration. I'd be fine with a glorified expansion (maybe not if i'd paid full price for this, but i didn't, so whatever).
It isn't shit at all, butthurt codexers want to convince us that Dark Souls 2 was the best souls game all along.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
150
Well, what's your stance on it? Even if DSIII was a garbage fire, it'd still be a pretty standout game if it wasn't for the legacy.

I've only beat the tutorial boss, heh.

Is the game shit in itself or is it shit because there's nothing new in it? Because frankly i'm not as anal about games having to reinvent the wheel with each iteration. I'd be fine with a glorified expansion (maybe not if i'd paid full price for this, but i didn't, so whatever).

The problem is that it isn't a glorified expansion, i would love one done right. It's more like a low effort reboot of a 5 year old game that no one asked.
 

Vorark

Erudite
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,394
I was hoping the entire time Anor Londo would show up in DS3.

All we got was that brief revisit, unless the DLC added something else.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
BB has the 2nd best bosses on average in this series. It goes DS3 > BB> DS1 > DS2 > DES for base game bosses. If anything is overrated, it's the criticism that "r1 spam" gets whenever anyone talks about th

Actually, that might be true, and if nothing else, BB's bosses are amazing visually. The problem is that the stupidly designed combat system undermines anything that's good about them mechanically. I maintain that all the beast bosses in the early game (Cleric Beast, BSB, Amelia, Paarl) are pretty boring and samey, but the game has some more interesting designs later on, like Ebrietas for example. But it doesn't matter, because the combat system lets you just ignore all of this.

Let's take Gehrman as an example. A lot of people tell me he's a great boss, which is certainly possible. Thing is, I've played through BB twice, and both times I've killed him on my first attempt, so I simply don't know. The game didn't force me to learn the fight properly, and I just parried and R1-mashed my way through it blindly. Same was true of Ebrietas or Wet Nurse. BB's combat makes it difficult to design good bosses without making them stupidly cheap, like Ludwig phase 1 for instance.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
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Platypus Planet
A good boss fight isn't determined by how many times you die to it, but by how fun the fight is. Saying that Gehrman isn't a good fight because you didn't die to him is a fallacy.
 

Silva

Arcane
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4,781
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Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
First time with Gehrman I had a hard time. Killed him in the 5th or so attempt.

See, that's the problem associating difficulty with quality in Souls games - different players will find the same bosses differently difficult. A pissy easy boss for me may be a frustrating wall for you.

I killed two princes first-time in my first play through of DS3. And still find it one of the best bosses of the series. By Cowboy criteria, I should find them shitty yes?
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
So I finally got around to playing the Ringed City dlc.

Raged pretty hard when Ledo one-shot me with a combo. I think I'm somewhat under leveled for it (level 80).

Lots of annoying shit in this dlc. Also lots of enemies that delay the fuck out of the attacks. ughzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
A good boss fight isn't determined by how many times you die to it, but by how fun the fight is. Saying that Gehrman isn't a good fight because you didn't die to him is a fallacy.

Good thing then that I didn't say it was bad, just that the stupid combat system prevented me from enjoying it. And indeed, using your own criteria, I didn't have fun with Gehrman because I killed him relatively easily without playing particularly well, so that would make it a bad boss fight.

To contrast, DS3 deservedly gets a lot of shit, but it did a much better job of tailoring bosses to its stupid combat mechanics. I believe I said in my BB impressions that the game could've gotten away with Champion Gundyr at 1.5x the speed, and it still would've been fair. But instead, we got One Reborn and Wet Nurse.

First time with Gehrman I had a hard time. Killed him in the 5th or so attempt.

See, that's the problem associating difficulty with quality in Souls games - different players will find the same bosses differently difficult. A pissy easy boss for me may be a frustrating wall for you.

I killed two princes first-time in my first play through of DS3. And still find it one of the best bosses of the series. By Cowboy criteria, I should find them shitty yes?

Funny thing, I agree that Princes are a pretty cool boss design hampered by being undertuned.

In any case, bosses don't need to be difficult to be fun. Lots of people in this thread like both Gael and Artorias, despite neither being particularly challenging. But they do need to force you to engage with their mechanics somehow, and that happens in the context of the game at large, not in a vacuum. If you put Fume Knight in BB he'd be a pretty bad boss that most people would easily kill on the first try, but with DS2's mechanics, he's one of the best bosses in the series. I'm sure Gehrman could be a pretty good boss if some of BB's mechanics were to be adjusted, but I'm going to judge the game I've played rather than some hypothetical version of it.

Finally, let's not like to ourselves here, every single "favourite bosses" list from these games primarily features the most difficult ones. The difficulty is what makes them memorable and engaging. Especially on what is essentially the game's final boss.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
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Good thing then that I didn't say it was bad, just that the stupid combat system prevented me from enjoying it. And indeed, using your own criteria, I didn't have fun with Gehrman because I killed him relatively easily without playing particularly well, so that would make it a bad boss fight.

Still doesn't prove that Gehrman is a bad fight. Objectively speaking, he's a well designed boss fight with interesting moves and it's fun to fight him, wether you find him easy or not. I think Artorias is an incredibly easy fight as well, but that doesn't detract from the fact that he's very well designed and fighting him is always a joy. And as Silva said, Easy/Hard is only relative to what you're good at and what build you're running.

To contrast, DS3 deservedly gets a lot of shit, but it did a much better job of tailoring bosses to its stupid combat mechanics. I believe I said in my BB impressions that the game could've gotten away with Champion Gundyr at 1.5x the speed, and it still would've been fair. But instead, we got One Reborn and Wet Nurse.

I felt that the opposite is true. Enemies are just as agile and aggressive as they are in Bloodborne except the Unkindled are far slower than the Hunters. It's like the person who designed DaS3's combat and encounters didn't understand that Bloodborne compensated more enemy speed with faster player speed and animations (injecting blood vials is lightning fast compared to estus chugging). The rally mechanic was also a great addition in Bloodborne to go with the far more aggressive pace of combat.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
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Messages
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I felt that the opposite is true. Enemies are just as agile and aggressive as they are in Bloodborne except the Unkindled are far slower than the Hunters. It's like the person who designed DaS3's combat and encounters didn't understand that Bloodborne compensated more enemy speed with faster player speed and animations (injecting blood vials is lightning fast compared to estus chugging). The rally mechanic was also a great addition in Bloodborne to go with the far more aggressive pace of combat.

Yup.

And for the enemies that delayed their attacks in Bloodborne, you had enough speed to sometimes compensate for a badly timed dodge by possibly dodging again. Also rally mechanic is nice.

You don't get that in DKS3. Your enemies are fast but you are as slow as you were in the older games (maybe slightly faster).

Bloodborne is a properly balanced game, DKS3 is dogshit in that regard.

Once I'm done with DKS3 DLC I'll probably never play it again.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
4,781
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Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Two princes got much more interesting in NG/NG+, where it had the punch to back it's (very) interesting movesets. Vicar Amelia and Hemwick Witches too.

And I find that all final bosses tend to be a letdown challenge wise. It's like the devs are afraid to fuck it up at that point. Then comes DLCs and they say "Ok, now let's fuck it up".
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
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Messages
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Two princes got much more interesting in NG/NG+, where it had the punch to back it's (very) interesting movesets. Vicar Amelia and Hemwick Witches too.

And I find that all final bosses tend to be a letdown challenge wise. It's like the devs are afraid to fuck it up at that point. Then comes DLCs and they say "Ok, now let's fuck it up".

The first boss in the DLC was interesting: the order you kill the duo impacts the next phase.

Not particularly interesting but something new.

Speaking of the DLC, the angels are annoying but jesus christ who thought the swarm of ghost archers was a good idea? Both situations just result in you spamming the dodge button. Didn't care for it. Area design for Ringed City so far is boring as fuck. having some asshole shoot at me constantly isn't interesting.

I miss Tomb of the Giants. THAT was a fun area. Or some of the nightmares in Bloodborne. That was a proper 'take cover" kind of game design.
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
BB has the 2nd best bosses on average in this series. It goes DS3 > BB> DS1 > DS2 > DES for base game bosses. If anything is overrated, it's the criticism that "r1 spam" gets whenever anyone talks about th

Actually, that might be true, and if nothing else, BB's bosses are amazing visually. The problem is that the stupidly designed combat system undermines anything that's good about them mechanically. I maintain that all the beast bosses in the early game (Cleric Beast, BSB, Amelia, Paarl) are pretty boring and samey, but the game has some more interesting designs later on, like Ebrietas for example. But it doesn't matter, because the combat system lets you just ignore all of this.

Let's take Gehrman as an example. A lot of people tell me he's a great boss, which is certainly possible. Thing is, I've played through BB twice, and both times I've killed him on my first attempt, so I simply don't know. The game didn't force me to learn the fight properly, and I just parried and R1-mashed my way through it blindly. Same was true of Ebrietas or Wet Nurse. BB's combat makes it difficult to design good bosses without making them stupidly cheap, like Ludwig phase 1 for instance.
At least you agree with me without hitting shit with no explanation.

The rest of the posters in this thread are just shit though, can't even give DS3 any praise.
 
Last edited:

praetor

Arcane
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Vhoorl
The first boss in the DLC was interesting: the order you kill the duo impacts the next phase.

Not particularly interesting but something new.

new? you mean exactly like O&S? :P

Speaking of the DLC, the angels are annoying but jesus christ who thought the swarm of ghost archers was a good idea? Both situations just result in you spamming the dodge button. Didn't care for it. Area design for Ringed City so far is boring as fuck. having some asshole shoot at me constantly isn't interesting.

since you said you only recently started playing of the DLC2, i'm assuming you're playing with the latest patch so you did not experience the angles in Mil Mi-24 format. those things were made of bullshit... and of course From nerfed them into oblivion, lol
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
The first boss in the DLC was interesting: the order you kill the duo impacts the next phase.

Not particularly interesting but something new.

new? you mean exactly like O&S? :P

Speaking of the DLC, the angels are annoying but jesus christ who thought the swarm of ghost archers was a good idea? Both situations just result in you spamming the dodge button. Didn't care for it. Area design for Ringed City so far is boring as fuck. having some asshole shoot at me constantly isn't interesting.

since you said you only recently started playing of the DLC2, i'm assuming you're playing with the latest patch so you did not experience the angles in Mil Mi-24 format. those things were made of bullshit... and of course From nerfed them into oblivion, lol

You know what... it's exactly like O&S, but with the first phase having changing modes. And fire instead of lightning.

:negative:

So it was worse pre-patch with the angels? lmao, right now their damage is moderately deadly. How bad was it before?
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Not Europe
Raged pretty hard when Ledo one-shot me with a combo. I think I'm somewhat under leveled for it (level 80).
Playing end game content at only level 80?:retarded:

I felt that the opposite is true. Enemies are just as agile and aggressive as they are in Bloodborne except the Unkindled are far slower than the Hunters. It's like the person who designed DaS3's combat and encounters didn't understand that Bloodborne compensated more enemy speed with faster player speed and animations (injecting blood vials is lightning fast compared to estus chugging). The rally mechanic was also a great addition in Bloodborne to go with the far more aggressive pace of combat.
This is wrong. Dark souls 3 enemies aren't as agile or as aggressive as bloodborne.

Rally in bloodborne could have been tweaked to give more health per hit too
 

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