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In Progress DECLINE 22: Primitive Proliferation

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,487
Location
casting coach
Failed to find good Hinnom build.
Imprisoned rainbow for great scales and giant / SC bless. Max prod and kill someone early with dawn guard / chariots / giants
 

Dayyālu

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
4,465
Location
Shaper Crypt
Failed to find good Hinnom build.
Imprisoned rainbow for great scales and giant / SC bless. Max prod and kill someone early with dawn guard / chariots / giants

It is what I tested (even if the plan was to go Dormant to get earlier on-line the Sacreds).

Problem is overall mobility in such a big map, and reliance on Capsites. I need something more flexible for this specific game. That's why I'm eyeing Caelum and Atlantis, one is UW for added security and the other is flying nation that's not bats (and I have never played it, plus Seraphines. I have a thing for Seraphines.).
 

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,487
Location
casting coach
Failed to find good Hinnom build.
Imprisoned rainbow for great scales and giant / SC bless. Max prod and kill someone early with dawn guard / chariots / giants

It is what I tested (even if the plan was to go Dormant to get earlier on-line the Sacreds).

Problem is overall mobility in such a big map, and reliance on Capsites. I need something more flexible for this specific game. That's why I'm eyeing Caelum and Atlantis, one is UW for added security and the other is flying nation that's not bats (and I have never played it, plus Seraphines. I have a thing for Seraphines.).
Dormant doesn't make much sense, Imprisoned gets you a ridiculous amount of points, just stack them minors on. All-round elemental resists and Blood Surge is the key part. Then Reinvig, +Def, and MR to top it off and also get gud lategame magic.
 

coldcrow

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,649
I came to the same conclusion. Scales builds with rainbow mages are the best for medium to large sized games. You get a useful bless and a good economy instaed of having to limit or trash your scales for a dual major bless.
 

Isiloon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
1,670
So Pangea now gets 250 gold labs, 200 gold temples and 35 nature gem castles...

On the downside, castles outside forests cost a whopping 900 gold... so basically you can only build them in forests.

I did a test with a awe + reinvig pretender... piece of piss expansion with centaurs - 10-15 centaurs will basically crush any indies, including heavy cav, barbarians, lizardmen etc...

So early game is super easy to expand quickly with massive amounts of freespawn AND sacreds that crush indies... late game is okay due to blood magic / big nature summons... i think their mid game is really their biggest weakness.. any thoughts? Pangea always seems to be pretty solid in multiplayer, but I always suck with them....


anyone have much experience with Pan? I get a lot of 'freespawn suck dont even go that way' - but getting anything else takes resources away from castles/labs/temples/pans...

2 water nations is good because if we just had one they'd be too strong on this map :)

Also - minotaur warriros cost 3x as much recruitment points as normal minotaurs.. in other ways they cost 1 more resource and 5 more gold :D

the 3x recruitment cost is a obvious bug... which is interesting - there's probably a lot of weird shit like that lying around.. so old units that were average are now extremely cost effective.
 
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Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,487
Location
casting coach
I came to the same conclusion. Scales builds with rainbow mages are the best for medium to large sized games. You get a useful bless and a good economy instaed of having to limit or trash your scales for a dual major bless.
Yeah, there isn't too much exceptions to this rule. It's quite boring really

For a bigger imprisoned bless, there's Charged Bodies+Shockres, and/or stacking Defence. Whichever suits your sacreds best, though these are only so cheap if you have Frost Father available.

I was surprised to see that the Myrmecoleon is so cheap, btw. One of the only awakes I'd consider due to that for a normal game.
 

Trash Player

Scholar
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
438
So Pangea now gets 250 gold labs, 200 gold temples and 35 nature gem castles...

On the downside, castles outside forests cost a whopping 900 gold... so basically you can only build them in forests.

I did a test with a awe + reinvig pretender... piece of piss expansion with centaurs - 10-15 centaurs will basically crush any indies, including heavy cav, barbarians, lizardmen etc...

So early game is super easy to expand quickly with massive amounts of freespawn AND sacreds that crush indies... late game is okay due to blood magic / big nature summons... i think their mid game is really their biggest weakness.. any thoughts? Pangea always seems to be pretty solid in multiplayer, but I always suck with them....


anyone have much experience with Pan? I get a lot of 'freespawn suck dont even go that way' - but getting anything else takes resources away from castles/labs/temples/pans...

2 water nations is good because if we just had one they'd be too strong on this map :)

Also - minotaur warriros cost 3x as much recruitment points as normal minotaurs.. in other ways they cost 1 more resource and 5 more gold :D

the 3x recruitment cost is a obvious bug... which is interesting - there's probably a lot of weird shit like that lying around.. so old units that were average are now extremely cost effective.
Cap gems income is 6N, which translated to 2 forts at the end of year 1 and/or Mother Oak. Dryads spamming Swarm that is quite hard to counter for a lot of nations. All steathy mage rosters allow crap tons of sheaningans.
Their mid game is better than late for sure.
Naked Minotaurs are undisciplined and those are par for the course low on rec points, it is not a bug. Revelers are actually undisciplined now too.
 

sqeecoo

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
2,615
I agree that multiple minor blesses with imprisoned that can be comboed with great scales are currently the best choice (or something like an awake W10 dragon for nations that like quickness like Pangea). This is probably my current favorite for Mictlan:

20180120180910_1.jpg
 

Isiloon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
1,670
I'm playing with ideas... what do you guys think of these (Pangea)

I'm considering taking Hinnom if Dayyālu doesn't take them.. I just love my thugs and blood econ...


Awake statue - awe and freespawn barbarians.. expansion is super fast... reinvigoration for the mages. This is probably my favourite because of the flavor.. and satisfaction of having almost ermor-sized armies of barbarians, maenads, crossbred etc.. turmoil and sloth is okay because we only really recruit commanders + sacred centaurs... dont need gold for castles, labs/temples are cheap.... I could probably change the 9 dominion into a 7 and get bigger magic scale for the gem / mage joins you events...

Of course just as satisfying as it is always outnumbering your opponent, it's equally depressing when they wipe out 100's of units with a decent thug
PwXJamd.png


Awake Raven
Fear centaurs ... death magic caster.. can empower him in nature and spam nature-death summons... eating carrion is good for blood hunting side-waste
MOLlGcS.png




Electric centaurs with imprisoned elemental rainbow guy + good scales.
uerRRL5.png
 
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Infinitum

Scholar
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
700
If i may, I want to sign back as a new nation - Mekone.

Spartan giants huh. Looks awful at a glance. Godspeed.

Squeeco said:

Now this is just nasty. Never realized Mictlan got a 3-paths rainbow (at 90 points nonetheless, wtf?) to go with their bless bonuses. Does undying apply to both forms of the jaguars? How the fuck does one even go about countering that given the rate sacreds are spammed at? Arrows looks ineffective due to swift and the speed which they should eviscerate meatshields (also flying eagle warriors). Earth Meld I guess but the jags would be what, 18 strength? Lategame evocations? Fuck you-tier super combatants?

johannes said:
Always dump temp scales
I've heard this sentiment before. Decided to crunch some numbers, turns out tanking 1 temperature scale for a temperature-neutral nation costs approx. 2,6% income over a year. The costs then skyrocket to a cumulative 6,5% for the second and 10,3% for the third scale. For nations that already tip towards heat/cold, going to +0 still costs 2,6% over 12 months, but going to +2 only costs 2,2%, and tanking 2 scales to +-3 only costs 5,2%. Nations that start at +-2 can tank all the way to +-3 at an annual cost of 1,2% (!). Nations that already start at an extreme pays a premium for neutralizing their scales, conversely. Also makes it easier to plan around rivers/passes. Hmm.
 
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Dayyālu

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
4,465
Location
Shaper Crypt
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Isiloon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
1,670
satisfaction of having almost ermor-sized armies of barbarians

It's all fun and games until you realize your freespawn demands a significant maintenance cost, and you can't simply stop spawning.

What maintenance cost do you speak of? maenads don't have an upkeep cost according to their unit info..

For the expensive pans... well you get the economy booster global + transformation + blood econ
 
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Isiloon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
1,670
We could outlaw the 1 dominion pretenders to force some more diversity
 

sqeecoo

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
2,615
Well, so who's playing what?

Dayyalu - Bethyros (sex starved sailors)
Lizzurd - Mekone (homoerotic giants)
Sqeecoo - Mictlan (inventors of potato)
Grimwulf - Hellheim (hypoxyphiliacs)
Isiloon - Pangea (horny forest people)
Mondblut - Lanka (shitting on your street)
KoolNoodle - Machaka (poster negroes)
Coldcrow - Fomoria (tru cavemen)
Infinitum - Marverni (vanilla faces)
Grif - R'lyeh (hypnofish)
Muty - Xibalba (flying goblinoid empire)

Did I get everything right?
Just one UW nation? Hmmmm.
 
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KoolNoodles

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
3,545
satisfaction of having almost ermor-sized armies of barbarians

It's all fun and games until you realize your freespawn demands a significant maintenance cost, and you can't simply stop spawning.

What maintenance cost do you speak of? maenads don't have an upkeep cost according to their unit info..

For the expensive pans... well you get the economy booster global + transformation + blood econ

Transformation on Pans mid-late game is pretty great. Saves a TON of money, and sometimes you get some awesome results(better mage or better thug). Rarely, with the right scales, do you get a useless result, and then you save the money anyways. Forts needing to be upgraded for RP might limit the Pan spam a bit though.
 

Infinitum

Scholar
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
700
...What do you mean, "No Mother Oak"? Granted 1 RP per fort early game seems rough. Hmm.
 

Isiloon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
1,670
We got one UD but several amphibious nation's who will no doubt go to war with the water squids
 

Isiloon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
1,670
lol I thought you meant the Maenads.. that would be so much worse :D

What was your situation, it sounds like you've had a bad experience.. I can't imagine having too many barbarians unless it's end game where everyone is flying around with communioned master enslave rapist gangs
 

Isiloon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
1,670
I submitted my pretender

Lebowski the Wild Man

Em07xVU.png
 

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