Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Pre-Release Thread

[The Nameless Pun]

What makes the nanosword events constitute as nonsensical, time-wasting or incoherent? You're there to form an ally and get your killswitch deactivated, so you must do some logical favors to prove yourself worthy of an alliance to that faction. What else do you expect?

JC: ''ugh, I don't feel well, I need to see your leader, Tong''
Max Chen: ''I see, mr. JC, but this is Hong Kong and we are businessmen. You need to prove me you are trustworthy''
JC: ''listen man, I got a freaking killswitch inside me and I'm merely a few hours away from dying in a horrible way. Can't we skip the mandatory fetch quest just this time, please?''
Max Chen: ''Nope, go find the dragon't tooth, american. We'd like another ally as strong as your brother.''
JC: ''Well, let's make this quick, I don't think I'll be able to be an ally for more than 12 hours''.

Right. Of course that's what a sane person would do. No shit man, you give the cure, then I find the dragon shit for you.

 

[Gnidrologist]

It totally was. One of those 2 routes were usually highlighted vent coverings, or highlighted breakable walls. And don't give me that "but you can turn it off!" shit because the game was not designed with doing so in mind and it shows should you actually turn it off.

If you believe that all the alternate routes besides running-gunning in DX were obscure, odds are you're retarded. I only played one full walkthrough of DX (did start several others unfinished) and immediately saw ALL possible ways to tackle missions from the get go, without using any guides. Even if i agree that HR made it obvious, you have to agree that DX made it equally obvious. Unless you're fucking dumb or played DX first time, when you were 8 years old or something.

 

[Ash]

Right. Of course that's what a sane person would do. No shit man, you give the cure, then I find the dragon shit for you.

Yes, because Triads are going to let in some random Gweilo to their compound, revealing their sensitive secrets in the process, and operate on him.
I'll be knocking on your door in a trenchcoat and armed to the teeth with a story to tell within the hour. You gonna let me in to be around your family and potential business secrets?

If you believe that all the alternate routes besides running-gunning in DX were obscure, odds are you're retarded. I only played one full walkthrough of DX (did start several others unfinished) and immediately saw ALL possible ways to tackle missions from the get go, without using any guides. Even if i agree that HR made it obvious, you have to agree that DX made it equally obvious. Unless you're fucking dumb or played DX first time, when you were 8 years old or something.

Your nonsense doesn't even deserve a dignified response.

 

[The Nameless Pun]

It totally was. One of those 2 routes were usually highlighted vent coverings, or highlighted breakable walls. And don't give me that "but you can turn it off!" shit because the game was not designed with doing so in mind and it shows should you actually turn it off.

If you believe that all the alternate routes besides running-gunning in DX were obscure, odds are you're retarded. I only played one full walkthrough of DX (did start several others unfinished) and immediately saw ALL possible ways to tackle missions from the get go, without using any guides. Even if i agree that HR made it obvious, you have to agree that DX made it equally obvious. Unless you're fucking dumb or played DX first time, when you were 8 years old or something.

You saw all possible ways to tackle the missions on your first playthrough. You must be truly a remarkable example of human ingenuity. Now that you're done boasting, go do something useful with your life.

 

[Gnidrologist]

See, this is pure butthurt channellig through you guys. YES, i did. Maybe because i didn't play the game, when i was a wee kid right after it came out, but around mid 00s, when i was 25-ish, meaning matured both as a gamer and human being. None of the vent/sewer/backdoor/hacking stuff flew over my head, because as a sertified OCD gamer i did look after all the possible ways, did poke my nose in all possible nooks and crannies. I still did miss some stuff as i realized after skimming through online walkthrough after finishing the game. The same with HR. For example, i didn't had ''heavy lifting'' aug for most of my game an missed some stuff because of that. I missed quite a bunch of infopads, emails with codes/apsswords, because my OCD is likely lacking from best of all. I didn't exploit some of the AI glitches in both games as i didn't realize they are there. But overall, i didn't miss anything level exploration wise, unless you think that some of the mandatory cosmetic plot choices mean you need to play the game at least twice to understand what their ramifications are.

As for the plot. All this spli8tting of hairs is bs. Both games have different approach and obviously some are more fond of random psychedelic iluminaty conspiracy shit with aliens and James Bond liker villains/underwater bases and some prefer more down to earth approach of HR. None of them had brilliant writing or sense of flow, but that's okay. It's a game.

 

[The Nameless Pun]

See, this is pure butthurt channellig through you guys. YES, i did. Maybe because i didn't play the game, when i was a wee kid right after it came out, but around mid 00s, when i was 25-ish, meaning matured both as a gamer and human being. None of the vent/sewer/backdoor/hacking stuff flew over my head, because as a sertified OCD gamer i did look after all the possible ways, did poke my nose in all possible nooks and crannies. I still did miss some stuff as i realized after skimming through online walkthrough after finishing the game. The same with HR. For example, i didn't had ''heavy lifting'' aug for most of my game an missed some stuff because of that. I missed quite a bunch of infopads, emails with codes/apsswords, because my OCD is likely lacking from best of all. I didn't exploit some of the AI glitches in both games as i didn't realize they are there. But overall, i didn't miss anything level exploration wise, unless you think that some of the mandatory cosmetic plot choices mean you need to play the game at least twice to understand what their ramifications are.

As for the plot. All this spli8tting of hairs is bs. Both games have different approach and obviously some are more fond of random psychedelic iluminaty conspiracy shit with aliens and James Bond liker villains/underwater bases and some prefer more down to earth approach of HR. None of them had brilliant writing or sense of flow, but that's okay. It's a game.

Listen, I was a dick the way I answered you, ok, I understand what you're saying, but you look like the guy talking about dark souls in another discussion. ''Dark souls is easy, after you spend 50 hours in the game, it doesn't present you any sort of challenge, once you memorize every attack pattern of every enemy you realize the utter shallowness of the product''. You sound exactly the same. You don't understand that you, as a gamer, fit in the right end of the gauss graphic of gamer competence. The majority of gamers found deus ex's branching and freedom of approach extremely satisfying and hold the game in high regard. Just because you are superior to the average gamer, like me, doesn't mean the game is bad or is not good as everybody thinks, because almost everybody think deus ex is awesome.
That said, I didn't like the story, it was amateur conspiracy theory pulp fiction.

 

[Gnidrologist]

But i also think it's awesome.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Where did i state otherwise?
What i disagree with sperging minions like Ash (all due respect to his modding work anyhow) is the unfair double standards and nigh glorification of DX. You've been much more reasonable even though i disagreed with some stuff. The double standards and cock slurping of DX, especially when juxtaposing to HR is just bs though. Both games have so very cliche and base shit that can be criticized using the same arguments, but oooh no, you CANT say anything bad about DX CUZ ITZ FUCKING FLAWLESS AND IF U DISAGREE UR A MORAN. That's the shit i wont let pass.

I remember being an absolute fanboy of original Fallout games and shitting on everything that doesn't include branching quests, SPECIAL type chargen, snarky writing and other shit that these games are remembered for. As that was my first experience with crpgs i've come to realize that they aren't really flawless diamonds of a genre and that there can indeed be entirely different approaches to it that are equally satisfying. Also i learned to understand their flaws and Fallout games have some huge flaws like quite shitty, unchallenging and rudimentary combat (quite like DX btw). But some people are still stuck in their childhood dreams about ideal super ultra good game and take crap on everything newer just because it doesn't contain exactly the same content, including the crappy one, of the original. HR is only marginally worse than DX, which is mainly due to smaller, more corridor like levels (although some are pretty huge and open, never the less). All the ''omg, too obvious vents'' is just false argument, because vents were just as obvious in the first game. Stop using shit pretexts to shit on newer game for your daily portion of KKKs.

 

[Carrion]

But some people are still stuck in their childhood dreams about ideal super ultra good game and take crap on everything newer just because it doesn't contain exactly the same content, including the crappy one, of the original.

Can you blame them? If someone played Fallout in 1997 or Deus Ex in 2000, are they really asking too much when they want games to at least reach the same standard ten to twenty years later, especially when it comes to newer games that shamelessly use the name of those old classics?

Human Revolution has plenty of things to recommend it, but the single area where Deus Ex shined the brightest was level design, and that's where it drops the ball. Are Human Revolution's levels still better than the vast majority of the stuff we see today? Absolutely, but that says something about the sad state of affairs today. You just can't accept below-par game design, ever, and if you do, you'll deserve the decline that inevitably follows. For me Human Revolution is a good game, but it is not a (good) Deus Ex game and will never be one.

 

[The Nameless Pun]

But i also think it's awesome.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Where did i state otherwise?
What i disagree with sperging minions like Ash (all due respect to his modding work anyhow) is the unfair double standards and nigh glorification of DX. You've been much more reasonable even though i disagreed with some stuff. The double standards and cock slurping of DX, especially when juxtaposing to HR is just bs though. Both games have so very cliche and base shit that can be criticized using the same arguments, but oooh no, you CANT say anything bad about DX CUZ ITZ FUCKING FLAWLESS AND IF U DISAGREE UR A MORAN. That's the shit i wont let pass.

I remember being an absolute fanboy of original Fallout games and shitting on everything that doesn't include branching quests, SPECIAL type chargen, snarky writing and other shit that these games are remembered for. As that was my first experience with crpgs i've come to realize that they aren't really flawless diamonds of a genre and that there can indeed be entirely different approaches to it that are equally satisfying. Also i learned to understand their flaws and Fallout games have some huge flaws like quite shitty, unchallenging and rudimentary combat (quite like DX btw). But some people are still stuck in their childhood dreams about ideal super ultra good game and take crap on everything newer just because it doesn't contain exactly the same content, including the crappy one, of the original. HR is only marginally worse than DX, which is mainly due to smaller, more corridor like levels (although some are pretty huge and open, never the less). All the ''omg, too obvious vents'' is just false argument, because vents were just as obvious in the first game. Stop using shit pretexts to shit on newer game for your daily portion of KKKs.

I see your point and I partially agree with you. What I want to say is that HR was the first dx I've ever played and my point of view, IMO, can't be biased. Some time after HR I found the courage to play the original dx and I was amazed by the different scope of the game. No handholding, good integration of rpg elements (although basic), great aug variety and multiple path approaches. The way the core mechanics of its gameplay interact with each other make the total greater than the sum of its parts, IMO. And this is exactly the reason why, even if I agreed with you regarding level design and branching paths, I would still say that dx1 is better than dx3.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

For me Human Revolution is a good game, but it is not a (good) Deus Ex game and will never be one.

Well maybe but it's an earnest attempt at executing a DX formula which makes it stand out among modern offerings, it's not like these type of games are dime and dozen. It's old-school in a sense that it tries to do a lot of things instead of slavishly adhering to current gaming design trends and (for better or worse) has its unique visual style, it feels like a creative work instead of just a shipped product.

I'd rather have a game that tries to replicate the original's attention to details, reactivity and multiple paths through level (in addition to adding its own things like dialogue battles and expanding on weapon modification) than a modern reboot that shits all over its predecessor and dismisses its qualities.

 

[The Nameless Pun]

I'd rather have a game that tries to replicate the original's attention to details, reactivity and multiple paths through level (in addition to adding its own things like dialogue battles and expanding on weapon modification) than a modern reboot that shits all over its predecessor and dismisses its qualities.

Like the thief reboot by the same company.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Like the thief reboot by the same company.

Exactly, not sure if it was the same team/studio though (would be surprised if it was).

 

[Carrion]

I'd rather have a game that tries to replicate the original's attention to details, reactivity and multiple paths through level (in addition to adding its own things like dialogue battles and expanding on weapon modification) than a modern reboot that shits all over its predecessor and dismisses its qualities.

Of course, but Human Revolution still comes off as a game that was made with a checklist at hand, like they had a very specific game in mind and then added stuff to it so that it ticks all the "Deus Ex" boxes (conspiracies, the choice between combat and stealth, "boss fights" against augmented opponents, a number of different endings etc.). As a result it comes off a bit forced, with the levels being more like enhanced corridors rather than being open in a way that feels natural, with the bosses being tacked-on and out-of-place, the endings coming down to just pushing a button, and so on.

I wouldn't mind at all if they dropped "Deus Ex" from the title altogether and just focused on their "Human Revolution" series*. The game's good enough and different enough to stand on its own two feet anyway, and it has largely different themes and a world that doesn' fit in all that well with the setting established in Deus Ex.

* Although the Deus Ex name probably pushes them into incorporating some of its design philosophy and keeping up a certain standard, which probably doesn't hurt.

 

[Gnidrologist]

How are any of the things ''forced'' in HR any more than they are in DX. They work exactly the same way. Are multitools lying in completely random places all around the map forced btw?
It's impossible to make Kodex Konsensus approved sequel to a game if they will suck either by ''forcing'' the same gameplay as original or not having exactly the same gameplay as original.
Having more spacious levels is good for environment's sake, but you had very clearly defined ''vent paths'' in DX levels so it's just as ''forced'' there.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I think what makes the implementation felt forced is the fact that most of the times, HR forces you to either sneak around directly, use vents, or punch walls(or shoot around I guess). I only played DX to the end once, but I get no such feeling when I played it. What DX also does better is the generally larger area which, if you are going a certain way/sub-area, make you miss some other sub-area within it unless you deliberately explore everything. HR on the other hand has most areas basically a big corridor. Some areas, mostly the hub, shines through, but most of the time they are linear corridors with the aforementioned sneak, vents, walls approach.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I think what makes the implementation felt forced is the fact that most of the times, HR forces you to either sneak around directly, use vents, or punch walls(or shoot around I guess).

Could you remind me of all the other ways you could go about in DX? Honest question. I haven't played the game for years so maybe i'm really remember it wrongly.

 

[Carrion]

How are any of the things ''forced'' in HR any more than they are in DX. They work exactly the same way.

Yeah, they work "the exact same way", as in, you write down a description on how Deus Ex' levels work, and then you interpret it in the most literal way possible so that it ticks the checkbox. Deus Ex allows you to do things either stealthy or violently, which I guess translates into "combat path" and "stealth path", even though in Deus Ex the distinction between the two is rarely that clear.

What is the "stealth path" on Liberty Island? Does it mean climbing up the boxes at the back of the statue? Or perhaps taking out the bot in front with an EMP grenade, bypassing most of the human defences this way? Who knows! Both "paths" are suitable for either an all-out assault or sneaking in, depending on what kind of hardware you're carrying and what your skillset is. Inside the statue lobby you'll find a vent (the only one on the entire huge level, unless I'm terribly mistaken), which I guess could be seen as a "stealth path", but you'll still have to figure some way to deal with the enemies, and the path isn't really any stealthier than just disabling the laser trap and avoiding the vent altogether.

What about Vandenberg? Is it considered stealthy if you start to take enemies out one by one with a silenced sniper rifle up from the rooftop? What about the bots? Do you eliminate them from a long distance away by using the spy drone, or maybe descend down to the yard, sneak past the patrolling enemies and set up EMP grenades in the proper spots? I mean, both approaches are definitely stealthy, but they're also very different, and instead of EMP weapons you could choose to use LAMs or rockets instead, which I guess would turn it into a non-stealthy approach, even though it's technically still the exact same "path". And if none of this suits you, you could reprogram the bots to attack each other, which would lead to all hell breaking loose but would allow you to remain completely undetected yourself, so I guess the stealthiness of that approach is debatable as well.

In Hell's Kitchen you could approach the NSF warehouse through the ground (a route that is filled with traps) or the rooftops (filled with NSF troops), but neither path is necessarily more violent than the other — a good hacker or electronics specialist might feel more at home with the traps, but sneaking through the rooftops is viable as well. This is probably the most obvious instance where the game gives you two different paths, but even then the distinction isn't really about combat versus stealth, it's about humans versus electronic defences, which adds another layer to the different approaches that the game offers.

Sure, Deus Ex does have areas where vents clearly provide the stealthy option. The Battery Park train station, the Hong Kong helicopter hangar, the VersaLife facility and the MJ-12 prison come to mind instantly. Even in those cases the game often forces you to leave your comfort zone and look for alternative ways to remain undetected, like finding a computer that allows you to disable the security system or turn it against your enemies, or figuring out a way to reliably take down a group of enemies that aren't just waiting for you to take them down one by one, but I guess you could make an argument that it isn't all that different from Human Revolution's approach. Where the game truly shines are the large outdoor areas, though, where the concept of different "paths" is pretty flawed to begin with, since you can approach the levels in so many different ways and pretty much create paths of your own. Human Revolution is severely lacking in this department, and the closest it gets is probably the mission in Singapore, which has an outdoor area with several buildings that are connected to each other in various ways, so that the line between "combat path" and "stealth path" gets blurred, and the game allows you to be a bit creative for once. That's something I'd definitely like to see more of in the upcoming game. The vast majority of Human Revolution's levels feel like straight corridors where they added some vents, side rooms, movable boxes, keypads etc. to create a number of different approaches, but it doesn't allow you to have as much room for planning and creativity as most of Deus Ex' levels do.

 

[Gnidrologist]

You can mix stealth with aggression and hacking in all three DX games, yes even IW. When i say that there are clear token stealth route i mean that every level is completable silently if you choose so. You just need to explore enough to find which is the most optimal way to go sneaky. Also, there are always key codes and passwords for nigh every door or terminal lying around if you look for them good. There are always enough multitools to hack every door/box and terminal. Guards are patrolling in predictable ways to allow directly sneaking past them. Etc.
I agree that hopefully next game will have more spacious levels, though. Bigger levels are always better even if they only give an illusion of more open ended game.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

How are any of the things ''forced'' in HR any more than they are in DX. They work exactly the same way.

Yeah, they work "the exact same way", as in, you write down a description on how Deus Ex' levels work, and then you interpret it in the most literal way possible so that it ticks the checkbox. Deus Ex allows you to do things either stealthy or violently, which I guess translates into "combat path" and "stealth path", even though in Deus Ex the distinction between the two is rarely that clear.

What is the "stealth path" on Liberty Island? Does it mean climbing up the boxes at the back of the statue? Or perhaps taking out the bot in front with an EMP grenade, bypassing most of the human defences this way? Who knows! Both "paths" are suitable for either an all-out assault or sneaking in, depending on what kind of hardware you're carrying and what your skillset is. Inside the statue lobby you'll find a vent (the only one on the entire huge level, unless I'm terribly mistaken), which I guess could be seen as a "stealth path", but you'll still have to figure some way to deal with the enemies, and the path isn't really any stealthier than just disabling the laser trap and avoiding the vent altogether.

What about Vandenberg? Is it considered stealthy if you start to take enemies out one by one with a silenced sniper rifle up from the rooftop? What about the bots? Do you eliminate them from a long distance away by using the spy drone, or maybe descend down to the yard, sneak past the patrolling enemies and set up EMP grenades in the proper spots? I mean, both approaches are definitely stealthy, but they're also very different, and instead of EMP weapons you could choose to use LAMs or rockets instead, which I guess would turn it into a non-stealthy approach, even though it's technically still the exact same "path". And if none of this suits you, you could reprogram the bots to attack each other, which would lead to all hell breaking loose but would allow you to remain completely undetected yourself, so I guess the stealthiness of that approach is debatable as well.

In Hell's Kitchen you could approach the NSF warehouse through the ground (a route that is filled with traps) or the rooftops (filled with NSF troops), but neither path is necessarily more violent than the other — a good hacker or electronics specialist might feel more at home with the traps, but sneaking through the rooftops is viable as well. This is probably the most obvious instance where the game gives you two different paths, but even then the distinction isn't really about combat versus stealth, it's about humans versus electronic defences, which adds another layer to the different approaches that the game offers.

Sure, Deus Ex does have areas where vents clearly provide the stealthy option. The Battery Park train station, the Hong Kong helicopter hangar, the VersaLife facility and the MJ-12 prison come to mind instantly. Even in those cases the game often forces you to leave your comfort zone and look for alternative ways to remain undetected, like finding a computer that allows you to disable the security system or turn it against your enemies, or figuring out a way to reliably take down a group of enemies that aren't just waiting for you to take them down one by one, but I guess you could make an argument that it isn't all that different from Human Revolution's approach. Where the game truly shines are the large outdoor areas, though, where the concept of different "paths" is pretty flawed to begin with, since you can approach the levels in so many different ways and pretty much create paths of your own. Human Revolution is severely lacking in this department, and the closest it gets is probably the mission in Singapore, which has an outdoor area with several buildings that are connected to each other in various ways, so that the line between "combat path" and "stealth path" gets blurred, and the game allows you to be a bit creative for once. That's something I'd definitely like to see more of in the upcoming game. The vast majority of Human Revolution's levels feel like straight corridors where they added some vents, side rooms, movable boxes, keypads etc. to create a number of different approaches, but it doesn't allow you to have as much room for planning and creativity as most of Deus Ex' levels do.

MUST...RESIST...URGE TO REINSTALL

 

[Carrion]

You can mix stealth with aggression and hacking in all three DX games, yes even IW. When i say that there are clear token stealth route i mean that every level is completable silently if you choose so.

So, for you "working exactly the same way" means something as vague as this? O-kay.

Invisible War is guilty of many of the same things as Human Revolution, by the way. The levels are so small that the different options become instantly obvious, to a point where you can't even talk about exploration in that context.

You just need to explore enough to find which is the most optimal way to go sneaky.

Yeah, but this is kind of a big thing. I'd say that in Deus Ex going full pacifist takes a lot more exploration than in Human Revolution, especially before you get access to the cloak and speed augs and other high-end stuff. The levels are bigger and require more backtracking and exploration, and it's generally more difficult to take enemies down in non-lethal ways. In many places you really need to go out of your way if you want to do stuff silently and without murdering anyone, and I'd say that doing a full pacifist run requires you to know the layouts of the levels pretty well. Non-lethal ammo is pretty rare, and for the majority of the time you'll have to rely on your baton, which doesn't help against all enemies. Finally, there is the simple thing that the game was never specifically designed with a non-lethal approach in mind, it's just something that is made possible by the mechanics. You'll have to use pretty much every trick in the book to get through the game non-lethally, and to me that is a good thing, because completely avoiding killing in a game like this should require a hell of a lot of effort and restraint.

On the other hand being a pacifist is pretty much a nonissue in Human Revolution, because you've got a ton of non-lethal weapons that are generally much more effective than anything you get in Deus Ex (some of them are even suitable for crowd control), and the levels are designed in a way that it's almost always easy to find that vent that allows you to walk behind enemies and take them out one by one with the push of a button. Every room in the game is clearly designed so that it's possible to go through them without killing using just a few basic tricks. In Deus Ex it was never that obvious.

Even if you ignore the whole pacifist angle and take a more lenient approach, allowing silent kills for example, Deus Ex will still probably require more from you than being a total pacifist in Human Revolution does.

 

[Zombra]

Also, you don't get double xp in Deus Ex for going nonlethal.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I went with the silenced pistol in DX most of the game and got the impression that game is designed to go stealthy most of the time. Other weapons just seemed ineffective in comparison, because they didn't give the oomph to compensate for lack of silenced ability and general subtlety. Non lethal only approach seems like a gimmick to begin with, but yeah, giving additional xp for it was probably the dumbest thing they did in HR.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I went with the silenced pistol in DX most of the game and got the impression that game is designed to go stealthy most of the time. Other weapons just seemed ineffective in comparison, because they didn't give the oomph to compensate for lack of silenced ability and general subtlety. Non lethal only approach seems like a gimmick to begin with, but yeah, giving additional xp for it was probably the dumbest thing they did in HR.

The silenced pistol is always a reliable stand-by, but if you think other weapons are lacking oomph you must never have tried the GEP Gun. I don't consider anyone's Deus Ex experience to be complete without a GEP Gun playthrough. The sniper rifle is also rather effective and fun. Keep in mind that JC's level in the relevant skill has a substantial impact on weapon effectiveness.

 

[T. Reich]

Dunno about you guys, but I always crammed my inventory with as many guns as reasonably possible, pumped my weapon skills and played DX as stealth shooter.

My usual DX weapon roster includes:
-a melee weapon = mostly for breaking breakables, often became redundant by endgame due to abundance of pistol ammo.
-a silenced pistol = a workhorse of sorts: breakables, stealth killing weak enemies.
-a crossbow = for when the pistol doesn't cut it.
-an assault gun = upgrade its recoil ratio, and it becomes a killing machine. Slap on a silencer, and it becomes the better silenced pistol.
-a shotgun (later - assault shotgun) = for times when you just don't give a damn about stealth and want to kill doods. Also, SABOT.
-a sniper rifle = duh.
-GEP gun = duh, though you can make do with 20mm HE, SABOT and grenades if you really wanted to.
-a bunch of frag and EMP grenades = for when usingg GEP gun is impossible or impractical.

 

[zeitgeist]

Super Mario Bros is clearly the best Deus Ex game, even in the very first screen there are three distinct approach paths, one completely stealth, one stealth with the possibility of ambushing the opponents and one direct combat. Exploration on the first screen is rewarded by powerups and points that allow the player to set their own goals, there is destructible scenery that the player can use to create new approach paths and since the opponents largely move independently of what the player is doing, there is choice and consequence that works on both an immediate (for example, you have to choose whether to engage the opponents, collect the powerup, or rush to do it in the opposite order) and delayed (the powerups you collected previously will have an effect on how you approach the next level branches) timescale, resulting in highly complex emergent gameplay.

And that's without even mentioning advanced features that appear later in the game such as the invisible blocks or the warp zone.