Digital Card Game mania

[v1rus]

We all know what Blizzard does best, it's making quality, innovative games grabbing shit ton of money. Following the insane success they had with Hearthstone, it seems like every fucker with an IP decided to make a card game out of it. With so many stuff there, it's so easy to lost track of it, and since I've been wasting ton of my time on Hearthstone, I'm pretty much interested at the global state of things. So, Codex, share your knowledge.

These are my impressions so far, but as you 'll see I've actually played only a couple of these games, thus the opening of the thread.

Hearthstone - It's a Blizzard game, we all know the catch by now. It's always going to be the most popular game. The devs are going to start making absolute shit content sooner or later (starting to happen right now it seems), so they'll lose a couple of million players, then they'll get their shit together, make sum gewd stuff so the old players will return, while the new ones never stopped coming, and so on, and on, 'till the end of time. Just Blizzie being Blizzie.

Magic: Duels - Gave it a spin today, completed the first dude campaign, seems quite decent, at least for now. And by decent, I mean more tolerable than MTGO. Completely different ambient than Hearthstone, which is something I like, the interface is kinda sucky tho. Still, quite gewd for now. I sincerely (and futilely) hope it's going to take over from Magic Online in couple of years. Don't know why, but I simply hate god damn Magic Online. If Wizards pull their shit together asap, they could prolly earn the 2nd most played spot either with this game, or some new (better) shit.

Might and Magic: Duels of Champions
Dunno much about it. Heard it's a gigantic grind. Looks fucking bland, just like every other digital card game. Fuck me, but I would bet huge money that half of Hearthstone's success comes from having some actual personality in the UI.

SolForge
Looks phucking cheap. Didn't play it tho, but I respect the decision to take a different direction than the usual Magic formula. At least, I heard it took a different direction. Seems to have sort of a sci-fi vibe, which is, once again, a refreshing change.

Earthcore
Oh god. Paper, rock, scissors in card game format. Looks liek something best avoided. No first hand experience tho.

Gwent: The Witcher card game
Looks like it actually has a chance, but I can't stand this Twitcher hype. Way too many Witcher for this decade.

Teh Elder Scrolls: Legends
Why not "Leukemia the digital card game edition" instead?

That's pretty much all the shit I know, for now. Definitely planning on looking into it further.

So, fellow Codexians, share your knowledge, and let's choose the DCG of the

 

[Kjaska]

You forgot about HEX.

Spoiler

as did everybody else

 

[v1rus]

You forgot about HEX.

Spoiler

as did everybody else

Don't know anything about that one. Could you share some info?

 

[Kjaska]

HEX was supposed to be the digital incarnation of MtG everybody has been dreaming of ever since that MicroProse game came out. Basically taking MtG and applying it to a digital medium, taking advantage of all the possibilities and having a fully fleshed out PvE side to the game. CEO is the guy who made that WoW TCG for Blizzard, back during The Burning Crusade expansion, iirc. It got funded successfully on Kickstarter and the hype was strong.

Then they decided to use "tapping" as an indicator for card activation and got their assholes sued by WotC. Popular opinion is that the lawsuit hampered the development of the game significantly and all faults it might have can be attributed to that. Now that they have beaten the lawsuit and launched the game, development speed and quality of content/systems will pick up, players think.

Personally I think the game is doomed, because they decided to adopt the MtG:O system instead of the Duels/Hearthstone system for their resolutions. I also think that the CEO ultimately doesn't have the qualities necessary to produce anything but mediocrity and neither does anybody else on the team.

It's on Steam and F2P, you can check it out for yourself.

 

[v1rus]

HEX was supposed to be the digital incarnation of MtG everybody has been dreaming of ever since that MicroProse game came out. Basically taking MtG and applying it to a digital medium, taking advantage of all the possibilities and having a fully fleshed out PvE side to the game. CEO is the guy who made that WoW TCG for Blizzard, back during The Burning Crusade expansion, iirc. It got funded successfully on Kickstarter and the hype was strong.

Then they decided to use "tapping" as an indicator for card activation and got their assholes sued by WotC. Popular opinion is that the lawsuit hampered the development of the game significantly and all faults it might have can be attributed to that. Now that they have beaten the lawsuit and launched the game, development speed and quality of content/systems will pick up, players think.

Personally I think the game is doomed, because they decided to adopt the MtG:O system instead of the Duels/Hearthstone system for their resolutions. I also think that the CEO ultimately doesn't have the qualities necessary to produce anything but mediocrity and neither does anybody else on the team.

It's on Steam and F2P, you can check it out for yourself.

Will do, once Duels disappoint me. Should be any day now.

 

[Grunker]

Hearthstone with less randomization: https://duelyst.com/

The only TCG I've been able to enjoy for extended periods of time besides MTGO was Duels (EDIT: eh, that's Duel of Champions, the Might & Magic TCG). A great game, really, it's just that:

- Payment model sucks
- It's completely unsupported
- Payment model sucks
- No limited
- Payment model sucks

Such a shame.

 

[Kjaska]

I sunk like 1300 hours into 2013 Duels. They raped that series good. Then again, thinking back then that WotC would actually do anything good with Duels was a fool's dream anyway.

 

[v1rus]

Well, I've never understood all the hate for Hearthstone's RNG. Luck element in a card game? How mortifying.

Now, as far as I've seen, Duels payment model = Hearthstone payment model, right? What's so bad about it? I mean, it sure did Hearthstone lots of gewd, didn't it?

And yeah, lack of support seems to be the nr. 1 issue. But Wizards will have to jump on the "freemium/ingame currency to buy packs" wagon, sooner or later, won't they? Not anytime soon tho, that's for sure. If they did such thing, they could just revisit Duels, enhance it further, and voila, we have a Hearthstone competitor.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Hearthstone takes the RNG bullshit to an extreme, though. It's not like getting punched 10 times in the face is the same as getting punched once because it's still punching.

 

[Grunker]

Wait, you mean Magic Duels? lol. I thought you meant Duel of Champions, the Might & Magic TCG.

I play MTGO, so haven't played much of Baby's First Magic. What I played was quite decent though.

Well, I've never understood all the hate for Hearthstone's RNG. Luck element in a card game? How mortifying.

It's simple. The more RNG matters, the less skill does. As such, the better you are, the more likely you are to dislike RNG.

 

[v1rus]

Well, I'll have to disagree, at least slightly. While more RNG effects definitely lessen the, erm, let's call it "hard skill", it introduces a new element to the game that requires it's own (completely different set) of skill. Knowing how to manage your RNG effects, or rather, when it's worth to risk it with some ballsy RNG play and when it's better to hold it in your hand definitely counts as a skill. Was nevah mad/salty 'cause I've lost due to bad RNG, since players do control the effects, in a way (by choosing when to use 'em). Drawing terribad cards that are completely unfit for the situation (an inherit possibility in every card game) is what gets me tho.

And lol on the Duels confusion. Now that we have cleared it tho, care to explain why the payment method sucks so much? Is getting a decent deck that much of a chore/luck based feat?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yes, there is skill in how to play the RNG cards, but no so much when you have no choice, like whether you play a certain card or not makes the difference between a win and a loss.
And there's certainly no skill in getting demolished by a lucky bomber or juggler.

 

[Grunker]

Well, I'll have to disagree, at least slightly. While more RNG effects definitely lessen the, erm, let's call it "hard skill", it introduces a new element to the game that requires it's own (completely different set) of skill. Knowing how to manage your RNG effects, or rather, when it's worth to risk it with some ballsy RNG play and when it's better to hold it in your hand definitely counts as a skill. Was nevah mad/salty 'cause I've lost due to bad RNG, since players do control the effects, in a way (by choosing when to use 'em). Drawing terribad cards that are completely unfit for the situation (an inherit possibility in every card game) is what gets me tho.

That's not really what I mean. What I mean is if you have two players of different skill and they play out 100 matches, the win percentage will be higher for the better player in less random games. The more random the game gets, the closer it gets to a normal distribution.

Of course randomization does what you say as well - that's why we have it and why we're not just playing chess. It changes up the game, makes you make new decisions. It just also lessens the degree to which you can secure high win rates via skill.

The main reason I don't play Hearthstone myself is that I get bored pretty quickly, and I think the villain is the constrained design space and the lack of variables. Not a lot of room to expand. Contrast to the Dredge deck I'm playing in Modern right now where I lose like 80% of my matches 'cause I'm a noob and the deck is eldritch and so I keep fucking up.

 

[v1rus]

Yes, there is skill in how to play the RNG cards, but no so much when you have no choice, like whether you play a certain card or not makes the difference between a win and a loss.
And there's certainly no skill in getting demolished by a lucky bomber or juggler.

Tr00 dat . All in all, I feel like it's more of an aspect of the game tho, not it's defining quality. As Grunker said, the game is kinda constrained atm (more on that later), and the RNG does add some variety to it. I can understand why it can put some players off, but I feel like it's been getting waay too much hate over what it deserves.

That's not really what I mean. What I mean is if you have two players of different skill and they play out 100 matches, the win percentage will be higher for the better player in less random games. The more random the game gets, the closer the percentage will to a normal distribution.

Of course randomization does what you say as well - that's why we have it and why we're not just playing chess. It changes up the game, makes you make new decisions. It just also lessens the degree to which you can secure high win rates via skill.

The main reason I don't play Hearthstone myself is that I get bored pretty quickly, and I think the villain is the constrained design space and the lack of variables. Not a lot of room to expand. Contrast to the Dredge deck I'm playing in Modern right now where I lose like 80% of my matches 'cause I'm a noob and the deck is eldritch and so I keep fucking up.

Well, the options are quite limited atm (still, way better than it was a year ago, the last expansion and the previous adventure offered lots of new options), but I'm quite sure it's only going to get better and better as soon as they stop playing it safe and start experimenting. Hearthstone does have that "digital only card game" aspect to it, and so far they've been using it rather well. Rather well, but waaaay to cautiously imho. Once they open up completely there's some serious madness to be had, that's for sure.


Now, mind you, one of the biggest reasons I actually play Hearthstone is highly subjective - I got in it on time. Started playing January 2015, doing some extra work so I would catch up with the previous year. Thus, I have 95% of cards that see play and then some when it comes to niche cards. Couple months more and I'll have everything I need, and as such I can keep upgrading my collection with little to no time investment each time new expansion/adventure hits. Heck, if I kept this pace I'd have all the cards in the game sooner or later. Now, why does this matter? Well, ever since I first heard of MTG(my mom Santa got me Magic The Gathering - Battlegrounds when I was ten. I actually asked for Might and Magic 7, but eh, this wasnt so bad either, it did have "Magic" in the title after all), it looked so god damn awesome (not that hard with that phucking art... Sure, Hearthstone has some quite good art, but that's pure shite compared to MTG) but it was just so god damn big. Waaay to fucking big, and fucking pricey, ofc. Never knew where to start, and since I was always a completionist, my main goal (have a complete/respectable collection) was always impossible in MTG. Not only that, but I feel like I've missed so much of the game, and that all that can't be relived/compensated. That's why I keep hoping WotC will do a fresh start with the freemium model, so I could start at the "beginning". At the current state MTG is, it really seems impossible for me to get in the game at the capacity I want to. Sure, I can play standard and walk my way in slowly, but I did miss 30+ expansions and so many decks, tactics, memes and whatnot.

Tl;dr - really want to get in MTG but WotC just won't let me.

 

[Grunker]

Tl;dr - really want to get in MTG but WotC just won't let me.

I know how you feel. Felt the same before I became the wealthy bastard I am today.

 

[v1rus]

Tl;dr - really want to get in MTG but WotC just won't let me.

I know how you feel. Felt the same before I became the wealthy bastard I am today.

Well, at least they motivate youngsters to become wealthy bastards. I definitely wanna join that club.

-"Daddy, why are we stinking rich?"
-"So Daddy could play MTG sweety."

 

[Monstrous Bat]

Well, a short list of the ones I've played:

-Hearthstone: LOLRNG the game. Too expensive to be used as a fun distraction and too lame to justify spending money.

-Magic Duels: No limited, no play. Also the UI is terribad. (TBH, Hearthstone is literally the only DTCG I've played with an actually good UI, but I'd expected more from the guys who had been making Magic games for like 6 years.)

-Infinity Wars: Probably my favorite of the bunch, even though I don't play it anymore. If it's not the best designed DTCG, it's certainly the most innovative. Flaws include shitty servers, excruciatingly slow card acquisition and occasionally questionable card design (though the situation may have improved since I left).

-Spellweaver: The one I'm playing right now. Simpler than Magic but definitely deep enough to be fun. I'd recommend it if you asked three months ago, but the Bulgarian devs recently decided to make the new player's life much harder by drastically decreasing the droprate of Hero cards.

-Hex: More of a cheaper, shittier MTGO than anything resembling Hearthstone. It's technically possible to play without spending money but it'd be extremely grindy. Still, it's about your only option if you want to play drafting (real drafting, not Hearthstone drafting) without donating your bank account to WotC.

Others that I'm not familiar with: Faeria, Duelyst, Spectromancer

 

[v1rus]

-Infinity Wars: Probably my favorite of the bunch, even though I don't play it anymore. If it's not the best designed DTCG, it's certainly the most innovative. Flaws include shitty servers, excruciatingly slow card acquisition and occasionally questionable card design (though the situation may have improved since I left).

-Spellweaver: The one I'm playing right now. Simpler than Magic but definitely deep enough to be fun. I'd recommend it if you asked three months ago, but the Bulgarian devs recently decided to make the new player's life much harder by drastically decreasing the droprate of Hero cards.

Which one of those would you say has more perspective?

 

[Severian Silk]

I've only played games such as these in FF and KOTOR.

 

[Coma White]

Hearthstone with less randomization: https://duelyst.com/

I've heard great things about this game.

 

[v1rus]

I've only played games such as these in FF and KOTOR.

No Acromage?

 

[sser]

Duelyst and Faeria are supposed to be solid. Both free on Steam although I've yet to try them. Both use what looks like a grid system instead of a flat board.

Personally, I'm most excited for Gwent. It's more like poker than this mana-hp-attack value shit that's spammed everywhere. You can actually bluff which is a concept completely missing from these other games. Considering I used to play a lot of poker in iron-doored basements and backroom bingo halls, I'd love to see more of that sort of gameplay.

Hearthstone... my first "trading card game" I've ever played. I enjoy it, but the RNG is seriously getting to be way too much. Blizzard must be run by some serious jackasses because they're squandering something big here. Hearthstone's huge, but it could go the way of Riot's League of Legends (i.e., launching into the stratosphere) if they actually pushed the competitive scene more. Have pros the crowds can identify with and root for, ya know? Instead it's just an RNG fest and qualifiers for the big tourneys are statistical lotteries. It's just not healthy for the game at all. Also, they can't balance for shit even though the game is in a digital format.

 

[Jaesun]

The card game in Final Fantasy VIII is pure awesome. <3

 

[Monstrous Bat]

-Infinity Wars: Probably my favorite of the bunch, even though I don't play it anymore. If it's not the best designed DTCG, it's certainly the most innovative. Flaws include shitty servers, excruciatingly slow card acquisition and occasionally questionable card design (though the situation may have improved since I left).

-Spellweaver: The one I'm playing right now. Simpler than Magic but definitely deep enough to be fun. I'd recommend it if you asked three months ago, but the Bulgarian devs recently decided to make the new player's life much harder by drastically decreasing the droprate of Hero cards.

Which one of those would you say has more perspective?

Assuming by "perspective" you meant "prospective", probably Spellweaver. It's younger and even after the recent changes it's still probably more accessible than IW. I don't think either are doing terribly well financial-wise, though.

 

[v1rus]

-Infinity Wars: Probably my favorite of the bunch, even though I don't play it anymore. If it's not the best designed DTCG, it's certainly the most innovative. Flaws include shitty servers, excruciatingly slow card acquisition and occasionally questionable card design (though the situation may have improved since I left).

-Spellweaver: The one I'm playing right now. Simpler than Magic but definitely deep enough to be fun. I'd recommend it if you asked three months ago, but the Bulgarian devs recently decided to make the new player's life much harder by drastically decreasing the droprate of Hero cards.

Which one of those would you say has more perspective?

Assuming by "perspective" you meant "prospective", probably Spellweaver. It's younger and even after the recent changes it's still probably more accessible than IW. I don't think either are doing terribly well financial-wise, though.

Forgive me, I like typing on the 'Dex while half asleep. Will give it a try, ty.