Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Diversity of Magic - or: What Mages do in their Free Time

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,149
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Magic. Power. Glory. Fame. And, usually, all the same. Every fucking game got the same magic. Okay, some games have a few different spells than the usual. Even some creative ones. But mostly, there are four kinds of spells:
1.Damage Spells
2.Buffing Spells
3.Cursing Spells
4.Summon Spells

And all of them are just there for one puropse, and one purpose only: Combat. Or stealth, in some cases, like the chameleon spell. Sure, there are a few spells which are also good for other shit, like telekinesis or levitation. But mostly, it's used for combat. And it either affects directly you, your enemy, or your equipment.

But is that really what magic is all about? Actually, there could be more. Some interesting and unique shit. Those guys and gals are mages. They can do powerful spells. Other than just some random kill-everything-with-one-blast spells. Magic can be so much more. Imagine you need to sneak past a guardpost, but need to distract that guard first. You take off your boots, cast an animate object spell on them and let them walk to the place where you want to have the guard. He hears the steps, goes to investigate, and you can sneak past. Or knock him down from behind.

Or take the telekinesis spell. Apart from taking objects from afar, it can also serve other purposes. Some games already allowed it to throw away enemies. Fun! But it can also serve other purposes. Like, pickpocket from afar. Taking off the clothes off that chick over there from afar, without her noticing who did it. Or, if you're powerful enough, ripping off the arm of that orc over there, just for fun.

The only limit to what magic can do is creativity. The problem is, the usual game developer is not creative. There's so much that can be done with magic, especially with the evolving of physics engines. Lots of ways to have fun, and maybe even ways to roleplay.

What do you think about all this magic stuff? Should it be improved in a creative way Or should it stay as it is?
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
5,933
Location
Scotland
I don't want to leave scorchmarks, I want to warp the very fabric of reality, permanently.

However, for real in-depth magery like that, you'd probably need a game devoted to magey characters. No names ring a bell... disappointing, really.
 

Jim Kata

Arbiter
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
2,602
Location
Nonsexual dungeon
That kind of stuff takes too much time an effort to program. It's like saying you want to simulate your own universe. It's just not going to happen.

To do something remotely similar to that you would need to limit your magic to like 1-2 spells.
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Messages
26,884
Location
Cognitive Elite HQ
Wow, it's interesting to know that three years ago Mr. Lamat was already a retard.

I've had a simlar thought to what Snails was quoted as mentioning in that thread. I once had an idea for a character who got cursed by a witch to always have rainstorms following him so he turned it into a lucrative business then the action starts when he's sent into an enemy country to ruin their crops, soil, and cause flash flooding.

Unfortunately the D&D spell Control Weather is too high level to be lucrative in the same manner (it would like a PhD working at McDonalds).
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
I think the development of mages in most games always ends up absurd. You meet some ancient mage who has studied the arts for centuries, but after killing off a few wolves and kobolds in the woods nearby you will level up to be more powerful than him in about a month. Just as well none of the other wizards figured out that all you need to do is kill random creatures to get good at the black arts.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
I have your answers.
http://www.netbook-of-uck.net/online_guide/7_newspells.htm
http://www.netbook-of-uck.net/online_guide/7_oldspells.htm


Arousing Hands
Transmutation [Arousal]
Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: One living creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
Your hands are enveloped in crackling motes of energy, inducing arousal with a touch. With a successful melee touch attack, the target of the spell becomes Aroused unless they pass a Fortitude save; this effect dissipates naturally.
Arousing hands counters and dispels Frigid Touch.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
Oh dear, I can imagine LARPers calling out those spells while making out.
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
Play some Codex curricula games. I recall in Darklands I once prayed for the patron saint of lawyers to argue with Satan over a contract for my soul - that's not like shooting different colored fireballs. The actual implementation can feel mechanical if you give yourself some perspective or fall into patterns, but if you're "in the game" the magic actually feels magical, though not deep.
 

Lord Chambers

Erudite
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
1,018
The problem with magic is that it's power is usually defined to be without theoretical limit. Like the only reason your fireball is the size of a bowling ball is because you don't know enough to harness enough power for a truck sized one. Or, you could shoot out a mega-sized fireball and destroy a castle in one shot, but such a summon would kill you. Meteo. Based on the definition of magic in most games, these are the only kinds of limits. So as critical players, we're left wondering "why isn't magic being used to teleport ore and shit?" Within the bounds of the setting, we rarely get an answer as to why not.

Even if we finally got settings historically consistant with their own rules there would still be the problem of limits. For instance, someone on these boards once gave the example of sand pits. He said, in a world where invisibility is readily come by you might see things like sand pits in entrance ways and such, since people would obviously adapt and respond to a world where invisible people could walk around you. That's a step getting toward where we need to be, but it begs the question "why doesn't a mage just fly over the sand trap?"

There could be reasons why, and in a pre-scientific setting it wouldn't even need to be a well-understood reason for its denizens. But in most games there seems to be no limits to magic's ability to impact the world, it's usually defined basically as the ability of a mage to do whatever he wants. Does something short of that still qualify as magic?

Anyway, designers should think about what exactly encompasses "magic." If a player can shoot lightning, he needs to know why he can't levitate. And if he can levitate, then the world better show some sort of adaptations to levitation.
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Messages
26,884
Location
Cognitive Elite HQ
Power Word Masturbate
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature with 200 hp or less
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
You utter a single word of power that causes one creature of your choice to become both horny and aroused and filled with a desire to masturbate, whether the creature can hear the word or not. The target creature will be unable to take any action other than seek the quickest way to begin masturbating. The duration of the spell depends on the target's current hit point total. Any creature that currently has 201 or more hit points is unaffected by power word masturbate. Passing out from sexual exhaustion ends the spell.
Hit Points Duration
50 or less Permanent (until dispelled)
51–100 1d4+1 days
101–200 1d4+1 hours
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
Okay, let's go back to wizards just throwing fireballs. It wasn't as disturbing.
 

Dire Roach

Prophet
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
1,592
Location
Machete-Knight Academy
Highlights from the disease page:
Scrotal Bloat: A truly hideous disease. Female sufferers suffer from painful swelling, effectively decreasing the size category of their vagina by one; male sufferers sport raw and hideously swollen testicles. Characters infected by scrotal bloat cannot run.

Tuna Dredge: Women suffering from tuna dredge secrete an oily black fluid smelling strongly of tuna: anyone using Oral proficiencies against them suffer a –8 circumstance penalty, and they are often followed around by cats and other hungry animals.

Elemental Secretion: Upon Climax, a character infected with Energy Secretion shoots forth a stream of elemental energy, dealing 1d6+1/HD damage to whatever gets in its way. When infected, roll a d% to determine which kind of secretion the infection causes: 01-20 a stream of acid, 21-40 a bolt of electricity, 41-60 a gout of fire, 61-80 a blast of cold, 81-00 a wave of sonic energy. Using the withdrawal method gives a chance of avoiding the blast – if the conception check is negated by use of the withdrawal method, no damage is inflicted (but arguments over who has to sleep on the burnt patch may still remain).

Mummy Crotch Rot: The effects of this hideous groin-wasting disease is terrible to behold. For every point of permanent Constitution drain taken, the character will become incapable of any physical arousal. Only a greater restoration, limited wish, wish, miracle or similar effect can reverse this.

Voyeur's Dream: When a character with Voyeur’s Dream Climaxes, everyone within a mile feels that someone has Climaxed. Should they Climax again in that sexual session, people within a mile sense that someone done so, and where. Each further time they Climax, everyone within a mile knows that they have done so, where they are, and receives a dream-like vision of what they’re doing. A Spot check (DC XX) allows a viewer to identify the people involved in the act. Characters undergoing Ecstasy extend the range of this effect to ten miles.
Wasn't there an announcement years ago on White Wolf's main page that they were looking for someone to publish a Mage: The Ascension video game? It would be interesting to see if they had come up with a way to implement that magic system in a way that didn't rely on spell/rote lists.
 

mytgroo

Scholar
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Messages
373
Location
Land of Dreams
Free Time Mage Spells:

Summon Dryad
Summon Bimbo
Summon Princess
Summon Elfette
Summon Centauress
Summon Hobittess
Conjure Gold
Copper to Gold
Fools Gold
Conjure Goblin Mushrooms
Conjure Hobbitt Weed
Conjure Pixie Dust
Conjure Dwarf Beer
Conjure Banquet
Summon Bard
Summon Clown
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
I assume you can truly go whacky only in P&P. The closest Jarl wants is in BG 2 by the name of the Wish spell though. Now that was a fun little feature. Something of which Biowhore is not capable anymore.
 

Koby

Scholar
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
356
mytgroo said:
Free Time Mage Spells:

Summon Dryad
Summon Bimbo
Summon Princess
Summon Elfette
Summon Centauress
Summon Hobittess
Aka teh internet - level2 (also known as the conjure porn network spell)

Conjure Gold
Copper to Gold
Fools Gold
Stock exchange spell - level4

Conjure Goblin Mushrooms
Conjure Hobbitt Weed
Conjure Pixie Dust
Conjure Dwarf Beer
Conjure Banquet
Downtown 7/11 – level3

Summon Bard
Summon Clown
Blockbuster spell – cantrips
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
Lord Chambers said:
... So as critical players, we're left wondering "why isn't magic being used to teleport ore and shit?" Within the bounds of the setting, we rarely get an answer as to why not.
...

Simple ... cost.

Teleport looks a good idea until you start to see the cost involved, Teleport is a level 5 spell and there are not many level 10 wizards/clerics around for you to make a effective work force out of then.

Then you have other teleport spells, such as "Teleport Object" that is a level 7 and only goes as far as 50 pounds and 3 cubic feet.

Sure one could build a portal but then how much would it cost? in the end its more cost effective to use regular labor.

Another issue is you sould not forget the reason the players are leveling so fast is because they are doing quests, NPCs are not gaining XP at such fast rate ... its not "going to the woods and farm rats" to gain XP, neither the NPCs or the players are doing that ... also players usually end up in large amounts of progressive dificult quests as NPCs might be involved in some XP gaining events over their lives, because NPCs are usually not going about doing some overall complicated quest lines they at some point retire as players continue on (since they are in some overall complicated quest line).
 

Surgey

Scholar
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
618
Location
Unicorn Power!
I hear some women don't need magic to cast "Flesh to Stone," IF YA KNOW WHAT I MEAN!

Arousing Hands
Well, at least it's a cantrip...

As far as magic in settings goes, the Eberron setting is really cool for that. They almost have magic to a science, and while not everybody can use magic (there are almost no people above level 10 at all; the players are the only ones that can really ever go that high), they can bind elementals to do things, such as power airships with fire, move ships through the water with air, etc. They even have air elementals bound to use on "lightning rails," a sort of fantasy-setting train.
 

psycojester

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
2,526
So I could arrange to get my character infected with Elemental Secretion and then have a mage cast power word Masturbate on me! Imagine the carnage that would cause.

I finally understand the joy of rules lawyering
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom