Divinity or Eternity?

[VentilatorOfDoom]

the game had HP bloat, but it also had damage bloat so things balanced out. Actually, the amount of damage you can deal at endgame makes the endfight quite trivial, you can literally kill the dragon within 3 combat rounds.

I must have fucked up my builds completely and utterly, then, because there's no way in hell I would've been able to kill the dragon in three rounds. No way at all. I'm not kidding when I say it took at least 45 minutes.

Yeah, I believe you. Most people having trouble with the end fight reported problems hitting the dragon, ie the to-hit-chance being too low. There are a few spell buffs for that, but the most important thing is the main stat, as in, having 15 in your main stat and then stacking as much main stat as possible on top of it with equipment. So, with ~25 main stat you shouldn't have trouble hitting reliably. At the end of the game my rogue would do backstabs (sneak 1AP+backstab 2AP) between 600 to 1000 dmg depending on crit luck. Properly buffed with Oath, remove resistances (the fighter ability) and so on, of course. 600-1000 dmg per 3 action points. He would do 5 or 6 of these attacks per round. The dragon has 10K HP. Yeah, 2 or 3 combat rounds bashing on the dragon after 2 or 3 rounds preparation (getting buffs and debuffs up, summon some fodder to protect the dryad chick etc)

 

[Vibalist]

Ugh, that fucking dryad chick. Whose brilliant idea was it to make the last fight an escort mission? Anyways, thx for the advice.

 

[DraQ]

This poll and accompanying discussion is pretty similar to how I imagine Wizardry 8 VS an IE game (I'll need to play PoE to decide which IE game - I already know it's not PS:T, but hopefully not BG1 either) thread would look like.
The parallels between IE and PE are obvious, between DOS and Wiz8 should be pretty apparent as well.

 

[JasonNH]

Let's not forget that the afterglow from the first D:OS orgasms is gone, whereas it will take some time for that to happen with PoE. If both games came out at the same time I would anticipate a pretty even outcome in the results.

 

[Broseph]

This poll and accompanying discussion is pretty similar to how I imagine Wizardry 8 VS an IE game (I'll need to play PoE to decide which IE game - I already know it's not PS:T, but hopefully not BG1 either) thread would look like.
The parallels between IE and PE are obvious, between DOS and Wiz8 should be pretty apparent as well.

Not really, Wiz8 is a much better game than D:OS in p. much every way except encounter design. Also it's a blobber.

I'd vote for Wiz8 over the IE games but not D:OS over PoE.

 

[prodigydancer]

POE is more old school with some attempts at rectifying/revamp the classic D&D stats but ultimately lead to 'min-maxing' being the most optimal build.

Early during BB there were suggestions on how to fix the attributes to avoid at least obvious min-maxing issues. Sawyer paid no mind because he thought he knew better... and here we are.

I honestly cannot see why ranged weapon had to hit so hard with the 'swap rifle' build bypassing the reload time and lead to people chaining 40-60 x 3 shots within seconds of starting combat.

It's much less fun than it sounds. It would get old pretty fast anyway but swapping weapons in PoE is a real chore. I'll rather think for a moment on how to position to get the most out of Ectoplasmic Echo than swap weapons three times in every battle.

Many I've spoken to commented that most combat devolve into tank and spank and rightfully so.

Somewhat true but I also recall D:OS being totally tank-n-spank after level 5 and devolving to autopilot roflstomp after level 10.

And worse of all is the crafting being able to mimic the so called 'unique items' provided you bothered to 'explore' and click on herb spots and slaughter lions, spiders for their legs.
Right click a mundane sword, click enchant. Spend resource +25% damage. +4 Accuracy. Yay. And all this is gated behind levels.

Crafting sucks. It wasn't any better in D:OS, that's for sure. But when you make a game without crafting, everyone will list it as a negative in their reviews. So you just can't win.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Broseph is spot on. Even without combat Wizardry 8 still has an intriguing and original world worth exploring. On the other hand Divinity has some generic fantasy fare.

 

[Mangoose]

PoE leading in the poll.
RPG Codex, with spacebar.

I didn't even play PoE and there's few games I ever gave less of a shit about. It's IE fanwankery at its greatest wankfest. No IE game ever had good combat and the game also comes with a generic fantasy setting which is undoubtedly taking itself very seriously and being generally boring. Basically that leaves you with shit combat, shit setting and fancy graphics and music. Yeah, I'm not installing that.

While D:OS also has a boring story, at least the setting is self aware to a degree and has fun. The combat is great. Graphics are pretty and the music is decent, but I honestly don't give that much of a shit. I had endless fun fighting.

Larian > Obsidian
Suck it down.

Well, maybe its just a question of taste?

I like the fact that there are different ways how a cRPG could be designed.

It really is a question of taste, in my opinion.

PoE... well I really don't want to say "traditional", but I'd call it orthodox. And well done "orthodox," a la BG2. More of an iterative refinement of an Infinity game, one might say.

Divinity, I reiterate that it almost feels like a pseudo-RPG. Like a third person, turn based Gothic, or Ultima 7. Divinity's strengths are finding secrets, solving riddles, using your spells and abilities for unique purposes.
Now I will readily admit that the stats/item stats and enemy progression is not good, and also the game and encounters being weaker in content as it goes towards the end. Also balance among spells are eurgh.
Divinity is an "unorthodox" interesting take on many elements of an RPG - it doesn't necessarily do it well in a many cases, but on the other hand it does provide an "equal" amount of entertainment.
And really there is C&C, it's just hard to recognize because it has less to do with dialogue choice but with interacting with the environment.

Also I haven't really lost the afterglow of Divinity yet... The problem is that the skill and spells still are so badly balanced, so it's hard to come up with a unique build to replay the game.




Anyways, yeah, it's quite apples and oranges.

---

Edit: I should note that I don't mean to make Divinity sound better than PoE. It's just that PoE is quite a bit more simple to explain. It's just good and solid and it's hard to elaborate on that in more detail.

 

[Kaivokz]

The other companions don't stick out as super interesting to me, yet, though the most praised around here (Durance) is a disjointed mess so far whose entire life seems to be an allegory.

I have to recant what I said about Durance. He comes together well and is now one of my favorite companions. I actually want to go back and read his earlier dialogue again so that I can piece it together with his motivation.

 

[upwardlymobile]

POE's combat wasn't as good but D:OS is completely inferior as far as quests and storyline.

Towns: There's Cyseal, then Cyseal with Scientologists, Cyseal with goblins, and finally Skyrim Cyseal. All of the towns are just large enough to be quest hubs but not big enough to support intrigue and factions. 5 vendors and a few scooby doo mysteries per town gets old fast.

Pixel hunting quests are completely inexcusable.

Two long quests ending in "BUT OUR PRINCESS IS IN ANOTHER CASTLE" rubs the shit in some more.

And finally the lore: I'm sure it gets some people off but biblical allegory is beyond derivative at this point.

tl;dr: durance by himself > D:OS

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

upwardlymobile
There is no pixel-hunting in D:OS, there is a button that highlights every secret item in the room.

tl;dr: durance by himself > D:OS

That is interesting. I'd say that Durance, Eder and Aloth are better than everything else in the game combined.

 

[Xenich]

POE's combat wasn't as good but D:OS is completely inferior as far as quests and storyline.

It will be interesting to see what happens after they finish the complete overhaul of D:OS. I wonder if they will dramatically repair some of the problems it had with storyline and quests. In the end though, I am looking to play a game (character development and conflict mechanics) and so those elements are far more important than story and quest design. I mean, if I want a brilliant story, I will read a book.

 

[Shadenuat]

I had more fun with DOS. It had novelty. It had turn based combat where you could create fantastic spell combos, and a fairly open character building system. It had interactive environment and it even had reputation system with bonuses you could game or just go with it.
It had exploration with new and exciting things to find, including actual puzzles. And bosses, it had multiple stages bosses.
It had crafting that, while suffered from Diabloesque mechanics, it was unique, interactive and could make you more powerful and allowed for more options in combat and exploration (make yourself immune to fire and walk around burning church or focus fireballs on yourself).
It had quests that you could break by yourself. Not like POE where you choose between options provided by designer by pressing number buttons, but something you could break, solve or achieve using tools you actually have. Like bashing a door to a quest-only dungeon. Or killing an important NPC and then meeting it as a zombie. And detective-like quests that you had to figure out and nobody would help you or guide you, especially if you go around content in your own order - sorta like Arcanum (or Ultima 7, it would be a more fair comparison).
And a bitchin' soundtrack.

 

[upwardlymobile]

There is no pixel-hunting in D:OS, there is a button that highlights every secret item in the room.

I don't know why people keep saying this, it is not correct. the item highlight button only shows the names of items that you can pick up by clicking on them once. there is also a living being highlight toggle and that doesn't reveal switches either. here's a screenshot:

both the character and item highlights are on in this pic, but as you can see the switch (left of the painting) is not highlighted in any way.

pixel hunt.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I think that you are supposed to just deduce that the switch is behind the painting instead of wildly clicking everywhere.

 

[Lios]

yeah, by that time you're grabbing every painting you can find anyway

 

[upwardlymobile]

I think that you are supposed to just deduce that the switch is behind the painting instead of wildly clicking everywhere.

if you have a pic of a switch being highlighted you are free to post it.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I think that you are supposed to just deduce that the switch is behind the painting instead of wildly clicking everywhere.

if you have a pic of a switch being highlighted you are free to post it.

Ah, now I get what you mean. I don't remember any problems with clicking the switch. Pixel hunting was about trying to click the right pixel, once you click on the portrait, clicking the switch should pose no problems.

 

[upwardlymobile]

Ah, now I get what you mean. I don't remember any problems with clicking the switch. Pixel hunting was about trying to click the right pixel, once you click on the portrait, clicking the switch should pose no problems.

ok true in that case but in the immaculate cathedral for example there are switches that you just have to pixel hunt, they aren't behind anything they're just inconspicuous.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Ah, now I get what you mean. I don't remember any problems with clicking the switch. Pixel hunting was about trying to click the right pixel, once you click on the portrait, clicking the switch should pose no problems.

ok true in that case but in the immaculate cathedral for example there are switches that you just have to pixel hunt, they aren't behind anything they're just inconspicuous.

Might be true, I wasn't there yet. Waiting for the big update.

 

[Orma]

D:OS is worse than Wasteland 2 let alone Pillars, It's not even worth playing past cyseal.

 

[Xenich]

Thing about "pixel hunting" is that if the interactive device is illogical in its design, (ie a location or item that is not reasonably deduced as a point of possible interaction based on story or reasonable association) then it is a means of "randomly" searching for a highlight with the mouse. That really is the question. Is that the case or not? If not.. well, I agree... such pointless events of manual labor are counter to game play. Though keep in mind, the fact that some people are oblivious to the subtle hints of plot development and intuitive design is not evidence of random implementation. I remember many times in "The Secret World" someone claiming randomized play aspects, but was simply too obtuse to realize there was a subtle pattern in play. Is this the case with D:OS? Each evaluation should serve a reasonable evaluation of such I think and where it succeeds, applauded and where if fails, admonished. Question though... is that what is being attended? After all such evaluation, keep in mind that sometimes irrational secrets are still an exciting happenstance of play. The issue is more with the actual intention of design.

 

[Xenich]

D:OS is worse than Wasteland 2 let alone Pillars, It's not even worth playing past cyseal.

I think most would agree there are problems past Cyseal. In fact, Sven has commented on such and even claimed D:OS missed its mark. Where is the humility in the other studios?

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

PoE of course!
Sure, fighting in D:OS is very good, but the rest is mediocre to not so great; while PoE is at least good at nearly everything.

 

[Roguey]

I think most would agree there are problems past Cyseal. In fact, Sven has commented on such and even claimed D:OS missed its mark. Where is the humility in the other studios?

http://new.spring.me/#!/JESawyer/q/618703033