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Dom4 - Decline 5 - raw's silliness

thesheeep

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You biggest mistake was not recruiting indy priests. Idk, maybe you did not have those provinces with them, but animating with thaumaturgs just slowly kills yourself.
I had some, but what for? They are H1, so even if I used them for reanimation (which I was not aware I could do, actually, thought that was an attribute of Thaumaturgs), it would suck horribly.
Ehm, no.
Ehm, yes.
Reanimation Table
| H1 | H2 | H3 | H4 | H5 |
-------------------------------------
Soulless | 8 | 16 | 24 | 32 | 40 |
Ghoul | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 |
Longdead | - | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 |
L. Horsemen| - | - | 5 | 6 | 7 |
TombChariot| - | - | 3 | 4 | 5 |
TombWyrm | - | - | - | 2 | 3 |
Lictor | - | - | - | 1 | 2 |
-------------------------------------
Manikin* | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |

H1 can't even reanimate longdead, needing corpses to be of any use. Ghouls are totally useless, as they are not mindless.
Though if I knew I could reanimate with indy priests I would surely have done so in addition to thaumaturgs.
Plus, indy priests are pretty useless in battles, while thaumaturgs can still cast spells and undead powerups.
 
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panda

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Well, how your research are going?
And you don't need fort+lab+temple for priests, only temple.

Also, table is wrong. You can reanimate Longdead with H1 priests(even checked this now, so surprised i was by your confidence, btw)
 

Malakal

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You biggest mistake was not recruiting indy priests. Idk, maybe you did not have those provinces with them, but animating with thaumaturgs just slowly kills yourself.
I had some, but what for? They are H1, so even if I used them for reanimation (which I was not aware I could do, actually, thought that was an attribute of Thaumaturgs), it would suck horribly.
Obviously, I would not use thaumaturgs for reanimation if need them for some ritual.

But sending some thaums with an army to refresh any losses, or (in most cases) actually increase the size of your army in the field is pretty great. We are talking about 16+ units per thaumaturg here, or 24+ for grand ones.

What do you think made my army so big? Not the few roman soldiers or vestals ;)

Oh, no wonder you fucking lost. Sceleria recruits hundreds of indie priests and swarms the enemies with thousands of skeletons. Seriously, its fucking 60g and sacred unit from temple only.

With plays like these nation picks become useless it seems...
 

thesheeep

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Also, table is wrong. You can reanimate Longdead with H1 priests(even checked this now, so surprised i was by your confidence, btw)
I trusted you, internet!

No use mocking me about not using indy priests. I just did not know they could reanimate to begin with. From my POV they were totally useless :lol:
Well, there is always a next time.
 

thesheeep

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Well, shouldn't blame raw for my noob mistakes.
Blaming him for not preparing to play C'Tis and not using sacreds at first seems more fitting.
 

Malakal

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Well, shouldn't blame raw for my noob mistakes.
Blaming him for not preparing to play C'Tis and not using sacreds at first seems more fitting.

Mate, a leader is supposed to call strats and teach them to his team, help with combat scripting and troops - both recruited and how they should be used. raw is enthusiastic but fails at actual leadership.
 

Grimwulf

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Are we playing the same game? What Arco troop is even remotely good? Cardaces? Hypaspist?

You probably mistake the ages or smth. MA Arcos has Hoplites (great when you get more res than gold, like we had in this party) and Chariots - one of the best non-sacred expansion unit in the entire game.
 

Trash Player

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Errr, no. They are actually great if you go all-scales.
They are decisively mediocre.
With a few E buffs and a significant number advantages, they can do some work though.
Solar Rays have aoe 1 - that's nothing.
Every little bits help, besides, it is not like mystics are only good for Solar Rays- Evo6 opens a lot of options, superior research on Arco's side will give them more. EQ communion can be a thing in this particular conflict.
 

panda

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I'm noob myself, just played lot of SP Sceleria games, so i know every mistake thesheeep made because i learned them in a hard way.

As for EQ, how does it works exactly? I mean to not kill yourself in process?
I guess, it is

Master
Ironskin
3xEQ

but maybe i'm completely wrong, so can you enlighten me more?
 

Grimwulf

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They are decisively mediocre.

Each to his own. Everybody considers EA Xibalba to have best-recruits-eva, but they quickly become useless. Those batmen can be obliterated easily by Rain of Stones; and Perpetual Storm makes raiding with them impossible. It's turn 85 in Decline 2, and I haven't hired a single bat in like 15+ turns.

While Chariots or Hoplites of MA Arcos never get old. So yeah. Not going to change my mind about them.

Every little bits help, besides, it is not like mystics are only good for Solar Rays- Evo6 opens a lot of options, superior research on Arco's side will give them more. EQ communion can be a thing in this particular conflict.

No, Solar Rays won't win you a combat. Maybe just make it a bit easier on your losses, but no major role.

Going all-in wasn't an option for our Arcos. That would slow down research. In our strategy Arcos should have sit in his cap with a thumb up his ass, but thanks to Team 2 passiveness, Arcos even managed to pull a decent expansion and pop several forts.

Going FULL COMMUNION was only an option if Sceleria attacked himself, which never happened. Otherwise, fending him off wasn't worth the research hit.
 

Malakal

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Are we playing the same game? What Arco troop is even remotely good? Cardaces? Hypaspist?

You probably mistake the ages or smth. MA Arcos has Hoplites (great when you get more res than gold, like we had in this party) and Chariots - one of the best non-sacred expansion unit in the entire game.

I am not, hoplites are terrible at 13g and 30r with 11hp, 8 def(!) and 18 body prot. They are also map move 1 and 8 enc (!).

Sceleria vs Arco shouldnt even be a contest, hoplites would fall unconscious after fighting skeles for 13 turns and believe me, Sceleria can easily bring ten time more skeles than the enemy has hoplites. Oh and by the way stupid longdead wont even be killed by one hit from a hoplite most of the time (13dmg vs 11 prot) not to mention it has better stats (like 12 def vs 11 att).

I make no comment on size4 45g tramplers.
 

Grimwulf

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Sceleria vs Arco shouldnt even be a contest

I never argued on that.

Arcos has good recruitables, but most of them have nothing against ethereal W9N9 Shadow Vestals.

I am not, hoplites are terrible at 13g and 30r with 11hp, 8 def(!) and 18 body prot. They are also map move 1 and 8 enc (!).

Hoplites have length 5 spears, which makes them impossible to repel by any other spearman. Unless you use something crazy like Ulm's lenght 6 spears. They are not great at repelling themselves, but it's compensated by shield+heavy armor. And since you normally get 3 repel checks per square, even def 8 is more than enough when attacked by average chaffy humans.

In spear vs spear lines they will beat nearly anything. When you play P2 or P3 scale, Hoplites make the backbone of your stacks. No formation penalty means lines and double lines, always. Enc8 - well, what of it? You don't trample, and have just one attack per round. More so, then cost 10gp per year - cheaper than Hypapsits, and only a bit more expensive than Cardaces. They are great, if you go for Production, and if you use them right.

I make no comment on size4 45g tramplers.

Your loss.
 

panda

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but maybe i'm completely wrong, so can you enlighten me more?

Mass Flight + Earthquake is the optimal.
Fog Warriors + Earthquake is sub-optimal.

I mean realistically, not with A mages (which Arco does not have) and 7th level research paths.

Let's say it is turn 24-26, 500 sceletons is knocking my door. How can i beat them using EQ with minimal loses on my side?
 

Malakal

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but maybe i'm completely wrong, so can you enlighten me more?

Mass Flight + Earthquake is the optimal.
Fog Warriors + Earthquake is sub-optimal.

I mean realistically, not with A mages (which Arco does not have) and 7th level research paths.

Let's say it is turn 24-26, 500 sceletons is knocking my door. How can i beat them using EQ with minimal loses on my side?

Skeletons have 5hp so just drop the EQ and it will kill most of them while your troops will mostly survive.
 

Grimwulf

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I mean realistically

Realistically Earthquake is a bad idea for MA Arcos. In normal non-disciple pbem you would have had Constr4 by that time looong ago.

1) Hire a few Priestesses
2) Forge dem a few Crystal Matrixes
3) Spam lvl 3-4-5 Banishments, dependent on communions you use.

While your other Mystics just do good aoe spell, depending on research. Maws of the Earth is a much more cost-effective investment of earth gems than Earthquake. The latter is great in caves, though.

Edit: Malakal has strange love for self-destruction spells like Earthquake and Rain of Stones.
 

Trash Player

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Ulm can forge you Rings of Levitation for 1 Air gem apiece. It is still reliant on an minor A random though.
 

thesheeep

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I wish we came to point where I could test it, but how effective is banishment against undead with really good MR?
With some of the undead blesses, in combination with antimagic (which I think stacks), MR can be boosted by ~10.
I'd expect that to have a noticeable effect.
 

Malakal

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I wish we came to point where I could test it, but how effective is banishment against undead with really good MR?
With some of the undead blesses, in combination with antimagic (which I think stacks), MR can be boosted by ~10.

No, the effects dont stack. +4 mr is all you can get from buffs since army of lead, anti magic use the same buff. You can use bless for sacred undead but it cant give more than 18mr.
 

Grimwulf

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MR can be boosted by ~10.
I'd expect that to have a noticeable effect.

Not against high-level Banishments. Your Decline 3 had some exemplar battles with MA Pythium vs MA Ermor. When Pythium (Matalarata) began to use Banishments in communions, Ermor's skellyspam wasn't nearly enough to fend him off. Sceleria has much less freespawn and skellyspam capabilities than MA Ermor.

Lvl 4 Banish has 12 + DRN penetration against your MR + DRN resistance. It works on aoe 10, deals 13 damage at range 35. A nuke by itself. Lvl 5 Banish has even larger aoe, damage and range. Lvl 6 Banish has 13 + DRN penetration. And Arcos can forge Spell Focus or even Eye of the Void no prob (you just don't really need them against undead chaff).

Edit: messed up some numbers again.

Lvl1 and lvl2 Banishments have 10+DRN penetration
Lvl3 and lvl4 Banishments have 11+DRN penetration
Lvl5 and lvl6 Banishments have 12+DRN penetration

LIGHTNING-FIX
079.png
 
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thesheeep

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No, the effects dont stack. +4 mr is all you can get from buffs since army of lead, anti magic use the same buff. You can use bless for sacred undead but it cant give more than 18mr.
Eh, too bad.
Unholy protection also just uses "Magic Resistance" buff, so won't stack with antimagic.
For an average soulless warrior, that would mean 9 MR.
Meh.
 

Dayyālu

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How the fuck Grimwulf knows what happened on Decline3? Someone is selling info to the Russkies!

Let's say it is turn 24-26, 500 sceletons is knocking my door. How can i beat them using EQ with minimal loses on my side?

Be Marignon.

After reading this and checking the maps, it's Decline4 all again: in a Disciple game apathy is death, as it's enough to have 1-2 players to have shit expansion to snowball into an unwinnable battle. And not using your friggin' bless also (I am somewhat guilty of that too, as In Decline 4 I ignored the N9E4 to go full Olms + Conj, but that worked well).

People, do not be scared in attacking. Losing is fun, and a learning experience. Getting slowly grinded to death because you are scared of losing your pixelmen isn't.
 

Grimwulf

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How the fuck Grimwulf knows what happened on Decline3? Someone is selling info to the Russkies!

Yes. You!

it's enough to have 1-2 players to have shit expansion to snowball into an unwinnable battle

Well, no. If anybody failed expansion in our pbem, that was us. Fortunately, we didn't need a whole lot of provinces to win. Just 7 of them.
:M

Team 2 was passive at going aggro, but they expanded rather nicely. Well. Except for raw.
 

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