Doom vs Brutal Doom - DISCUSS!

[CyberP]

 

[Astral Rag]

 

[Admiral jimbob]

http://blog.danbo.vg/post/50094276897/the-most-misunderstood-game-of-all-time

Spot on

 

[DraQ]

Yawn.
This whole BD issue only exists because BD does 3 different things:
- provide mechanical refinements that are arguably a good thing in the era of ubiquitous +mlook and reaction times and precision honed by countless FPSes that came after Dooms.
- provide unintrusive cosmetic enchancements that don't really clash with 2.5D tradition and aesthetics
- provide nextgen intrusive cinematic features such as takedowns, camera splatter and so forth.

Depending on the weights and individual opinions on either of those three the opinion on BD can be anywhere between the best thig ever and fucking disgrace.

 

[shihonage]

"Refinements".

More like defilements.

 

[hoverdog]

inb4 Lyric Suite goes full autist.

that happened a long time ago.

 

[tuluse]

Doom is a game where every element works together to create something better. You change any element and it throws the others out of whack.

Now, that doesn't mean we need to trash Brutal Doom. It's just a free mod—consider it an experiment.

 

[shihonage]

The problem isn't with Brutal Doom's existence, but with its 'tarded fanbase who are implying it's what Doom was "meant to be".

Thank god Doom wasn't designed by teenage "experimentators".

 

[AngryEddy]

The problem isn't with Brutal Doom's existence, but with its 'tarded fanbase who are implying it's what Doom was "meant to be".

Thank god Doom wasn't designed by teenage "experimentators".

Do you think Id wouldn't have created Brutal Doom if computing power was strong enough in 1995?

 

[shihonage]

Do you think Id wouldn't have created Brutal Doom if computing power was strong enough in 1995?

Strong enough to fuck with all timings, health and damages in a carefully tuned game? You don't need extra CPU to fuck up a game. You just need to be a teenager. And plenty of teenagers have been making really awful gameplay-altering mods and tools for Doom using dehacked for decades now.

I was one of them, actually.

 

[tuluse]

Do you think Id wouldn't have created Brutal Doom if computing power was strong enough in 1995?

I don't. The game they made when they could do some bells and whistles was Quake, and it wasn't like Brutal Doom.

Then Romero and Hall left so it's hard to say what they would have done next.

 

[Gragt]

Now, that doesn't mean we need to trash Brutal Doom. It's just a free mod—consider it an experiment.

I’d say that Brutal Doom is its own thing compared to Doom. And that’s fine. There is a place for it, and it can offer a different spin on older levels we played so many times. But Brutal Doom isn’t Doom, and that’s why I have a problem when people claim that it is “Doom the way it’s supposed to be.” Doom and Brutal Doom are two different things.

Do you think Id wouldn't have created Brutal Doom if computing power was strong enough in 1995?

I wonder if Id would have done things differently had it been possible. I’m pretty sure that Carmack would have gone that way, but he isn’t known for his design skills—Id reached its peak when Carmack and Romero worked together, when they took advantage of each other’s strength and balanced their respective weaknesses; the magic was gone when they parted ways. In any case, intent means shit: they produced Doom the way it is (as in Doom and Doom II) and gave it to the world, whether it was in the form they wanted or not, and from then the world played with it, and it still fascinates and we still discuss it 20 years later. Maybe Brutal Doom would have enjoyed the same success or it may just have fallen into obscurity because it failed to capture creativity the way Doom did; who knows? The fact is that Doom is what we got and it has been going strong since then.

 

[CyberP]

Strong enough to fuck with all timings, health and damages in a carefully tuned game? You don't need extra CPU to fuck up a game. You just need to be a teenager. And plenty of teenagers have been making really awful gameplay-altering mods and tools for Doom using dehacked for decades now.

I was one of them, actually.

Motive revealed: butthurt his mod never got popular and Brutal Doom is a sensation

 

[Nihnoz]

http://blog.danbo.vg/post/50094276897/the-most-misunderstood-game-of-all-time

Danbo's working on a shmup by the way! He's got a really good artist with him and while I've only played the first level it's a ton of fun so far. So check out Blue Revolver when it actually comes out in, IDK, a year or two.

oh right, addendum: if you support brutal doom you support brazilians. think carefully before you choose a side here.

 

[shihonage]

Motive revealed: butthurt his mod never got popular and Brutal Doom is a sensation

It wasn't a mod, but a program which allowed to combine dehacked patches with easy interface.

But I did allegedly make a pretty popular program at the time, which let you play Doom on DWANGO indefinitely. It was a DOS TSR which ran Dwango, filled out all believable but randomized user information on the screen, with proper area codes, pressed buttons for you, and created new trial accounts all the while altering your HD serial number which DWANGO used to detect unique clients.

I know it was popular because their lawyers eventually sent me a cease-and-desist letter.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Thank god Doom wasn't designed by teenage "experimentators".

And, holy shit, most of the changes in Brutal Doom are stupid, but that article can fuck right off. "The game offers a more intelligent gameplay palette than just about any other pure FPS in the world"? OKAY buddy.

 

[Tehdagah]

They took the Doom formula and fucked with every single part of it - damage, reload times, movement speeds - resulting in a hit-and-miss gameplay. Change for the sake of change. Throw enough darts and you'll hit something. The end result makes distinct impression of being aimed at ADD-riddled children.

So, it sucks because it's different.

Spot on

1. If you want Doom with a slightly nicer coat of paint and nicer effects without an injection of pointless sadism and unneeded gameplay tweaking, try Beautiful Doom. Some swear by it. ↩

A Doom fan said this.

I liked the "unneeded gameplay tweaking" part too. Because a gameplay mod shouldn't have gameplay changes!

Also, Alien Vendetta, Scythe 2, Deus Vult 2 are overrated. Vanilla Doom weapons don't feel as good as mod weapons (not only Brutal Doom, but Complex Doom as well).


Doom purists are boring, news at 09:00. Enjoy shooting the same monsters with the same weapons for the 292389128th time.

 

[shihonage]

I knew some tard was gonna pull that up because Carmack looked 10 years younger than he actually was.

So, it sucks because it's different.

When some talentless hack starts messing with a masterpiece, there's a 99.99999% chance that any changes done will make it worse.

However, this theory was easy for me to confirm in practice. At first I was really enthused about Brutal Doom, and then I actually played it. The gunplay felt like shit, and the whole game was a hormonal sack of a teenager's "XXXTREEM DESIGN".

At this point Brutal Doom doesn't have any "Doom" in it. It is an indie FPS "with its own vision" that uses Doom assets and levels. And it is an inferior work.

There's a reason there's still a Doom community 20 years later.

 

[TheGreatOne]

I knew some tard was gonna pull that up because Carmack looked 10 years younger than he actually was.

He doesn't look like 13. You could just read Masters of Doom or any interview from the 90s and realize that John Romero wasn't some design genious who was out the make the most balanced 2.5D FPS in existance, but rather a Todd Howard of his day who thought that gore is cool and that ID's game should be more eXtreemee than any one else's. If they had believed in subtlety and craftmanship, they would've made a game called System Shock. But they didn't and instead they made Wolfenstein 3D and Doom, which were naturally infinitely more popular than System Shock because they were eXtreeemee and simple to play.
Original Doom was like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. The brilliance it had could not be recreated, so believing that the developers, who were mental teenagers who wanted to make the most eXtreeeme game possible with contemporary PC tech, were deliberately trying to make a design master piece is foolish. Luckily for them Doom happens to be one of those games where everything fell in place perfectly.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Original Doom was like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. The brilliance it had could not be recreated, so believing that the developers, who were mental teenagers who wanted to make the most eXtreeeme game possible with contemporary PC tech, were deliberately trying to make a design master piece is foolish. Luckily for them Doom happens to be one of those games where everything fell in place perfectly.

Proof that games are art, because that often happens with bands as well, when their debut albums are master pieces and they cannot reproduce that because they don't even know what was so good bout them. So they refine and iterate but while it gets more polished or more extreme, it just doesn't click as much as the first.

 

[Untermensch]

Doom is like one of those enjoyable blockbuster movies we used to get. Simple and really fun to play, but no one should delude themselves into thinking that it's on the same level as System Shock quality-wise.

 

[Akratus]

Am I the only one around here who knows Brutal Doom has a setting for the level of gore?

 

[Lyric Suite]

That's irrelevant to the argument.

 

[DraQ]

He doesn't look like 13. You could just read Masters of Doom or any interview from the 90s and realize that John Romero wasn't some design genious who was out the make the most balanced 2.5D FPS in existance, but rather a Todd Howard of his day who thought that gore is cool and that ID's game should be more eXtreemee than any one else's.

Romero and Carmack's case was that of two complete hurpdurps chained together pulling in opposite directions.

If they had believed in subtlety and craftmanship, they would've made a game called System Shock. But they didn't and instead they made Wolfenstein 3D and Doom, which were naturally infinitely more popular than System Shock because they were eXtreeemee and simple to play.

Doom is like one of those enjoyable blockbuster movies we used to get. Simple and really fun to play, but no one should delude themselves into thinking that it's on the same level as System Shock quality-wise.

Doom is p. awesome, but when played side by side with original SShock it starts to resemble a high-school programming project.

 

[Melan]

Doom is p. awesome, but when played side by side with original SShock it starts to resemble a high-school programming project.

No shame in simplicity. If System Shock is a complicated gourmet meal, DooM is a damn fine burger.

And Brutal DooM is a French bistro trying to recreate that burger.