Indie DrDungeon's Ultizurk and MADMAN Thread

[Luzur]

well, ive restarted and got my char up to where i was last time (good armor, 7k in gold and flowers given to tammy) and went into that dungeon north of town, and discovered another problem to be fixed/reworked, namely the enemy respawn.

it was kinda frustrating to slog through the same bunch of guys i met on the way in as on the way out , also the escape function should be fixed too, on my way out again i just ran passed the first group of enemies but the battle continued on even as i was right by the entrance and the enemies was in their cave (prob "seeing" me through the wall or something., and i couldnt leave or get the "Escaped!" thing to pop-up, so i was forced to go back and whack them again to to be able to leave.

and btw, is there a World map or something?

 

[DrDungeon]

I'm not sure when the respawn occurred, as it takes a day and a half for respawn to occur. Originally, they respawned every time you entered or exited a dungeon. If you explore long enough in a dungeon, they will come back. If they don't come back at least fairly often, the player won't have much chance to gain experience. One possibility is to re-set the respawn counter each time they exit or enter. That way the player would need to be in the dungeon quite awhile before monsters come back. What do you think?

Once in battle, the monsters will continue to seek you up to a certain distance - much like a wolf might in real life.

A good point about the entrances! If the player reaches an entrance, he should indeed be allowed to walk out! This will be fixed.

One thing I'm doing in madman is making the creatures act more like real creatures, instead of like in games where a group of monsters is waiting there, possibly for years, for an adventurer to come along and fight. Its a little like the Tomb Raider games where Lara opens a tomb that hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and there's nice bronze-tipped polished wooden poles in the walls for her to jump on!

In a real cave somewhere, creatures will lurk in the corners, usually attacking when you get close. I'm trying to simulate that realism in madman.

Deuce noted that if the escape distance is too short, you can often escape by taking a few steps back, then go right back to the unguarded treasure or whatever with no fight.
I'll see what I can tweak, and definitely fix the door escape problem.

Deuce also mentioned a world map. The problem there is that I really wanted a world map, but alas, my drawing skills aren't so hot. Maybe I'll give it another try as I wanted a fairly nice world map. -Rob

 

[Luzur]

I'm not sure when the respawn occurred, as it takes a day and a half for respawn to occur. Originally, they respawned every time you entered or exited a dungeon. If you explore long enough in a dungeon, they will come back. If they don't come back at least fairly often, the player won't have much chance to gain experience. One possibility is to re-set the respawn counter each time they exit or enter. That way the player would need to be in the dungeon quite awhile before monsters come back. What do you think?

Once in battle, the monsters will continue to seek you up to a certain distance - much like a wolf might in real life.

A good point about the entrances! If the player reaches an entrance, he should indeed be allowed to walk out! This will be fixed.

One thing I'm doing in madman is making the creatures act more like real creatures, instead of like in games where a group of monsters is waiting there, possibly for years, for an adventurer to come along and fight. Its a little like the Tomb Raider games where Lara opens a tomb that hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and there's nice bronze-tipped polished wooden poles in the walls for her to jump on!

In a real cave somewhere, creatures will lurk in the corners, usually attacking when you get close. I'm trying to simulate that realism in madman.

Deuce noted that if the escape distance is too short, you can often escape by taking a few steps back, then go right back to the unguarded treasure or whatever with no fight.
I'll see what I can tweak, and definitely fix the door escape problem.

Deuce also mentioned a world map. The problem there is that I really wanted a world map, but alas, my drawing skills aren't so hot. Maybe I'll give it another try as I wanted a fairly nice world map. -Rob

well in my case they respawn on the exact same place every time i step on a certain spot on the map (it seems like that anyway, good example is the first group in the first dungeon after the exit.) and i got to those 4 locked doors (i am kinda stuck there also, i cant get any door in there open at all) before turning back, since i could open them, and when i got to that river path into that chamber the second group (1 blob, 1 skelly and 1 snake bro) respawned behind me, and it hadnt been that much time since i beat them.

and well ive done a few maps in my days, me and my brother and his friend where making a Ultima 4 style RPG once, that i drew the maps to by hand.

 

[DrDungeon]

Good news Luzur! It wasn't hard at all to fix the dungeon exit/escape and the respawn. I ran it through several times and its resolved. The problem was that the counter kept counting no matter where you went, so the possibility existed that not only could they respawn fairly early, but in rare cases they could respawn almost right after you fought them!! Thank you so much for seeing this. What happens now is the counter is reset on exit and entry (plus you can now escape through an exit irregardless of distance). So when you go in a dungeon, you'll be exploring for quite awhile before they respawn, which is more logical as eventually more monsters will eventually wonder into the dungeons. A similar thing also will work better for outside encounters. For the player, it should now appear that sufficient time has passed before monsters return. I also moved a few "guard" type monsters, guarding treasures, or special items so its not too easy to get the mystic item or whatever by fleeing then going right back, although this might occur on a couple occasions. Overall the balance is very much better.

If you feel like drawing a map, that would be totally cool. I could draw a rough "Robby artist" map that shows the main shape and places of the land, and if you want, maybe make a fancier version. One reason I would like to have a world map is because certain areas might be hard to find - for example there's two dungeons kind of hidden in the middle plateau area and a hermit living up there. Also it would clarify some of the NPC's who talk about places "In the west", for example Wendy's castle verses the Wereshade Castle, etc.

Let me know what you think and thanks again! Madman keeps getting better and better thanks to the input from you guys! -Rob

P.S. Can't resist! How many other developers listen to and adopt ideas from potential players? I, Dr. Dungeon, listen to and apply good advice!

 

[Luzur]

Good news Luzur! It wasn't hard at all to fix the dungeon exit/escape and the respawn. I ran it through several times and its resolved. The problem was that the counter kept counting no matter where you went, so the possibility existed that not only could they respawn fairly early, but in rare cases they could respawn almost right after you fought them!! Thank you so much for seeing this. What happens now is the counter is reset on exit and entry (plus you can now escape through an exit irregardless of distance). So when you go in a dungeon, you'll be exploring for quite awhile before they respawn, which is more logical as eventually more monsters will eventually wonder into the dungeons. A similar thing also will work better for outside encounters. For the player, it should now appear that sufficient time has passed before monsters return. I also moved a few "guard" type monsters, guarding treasures, or special items so its not too easy to get the mystic item or whatever by fleeing then going right back, although this might occur on a couple occasions. Overall the balance is very much better.

If you feel like drawing a map, that would be totally cool. I could draw a rough "Robby artist" map that shows the main shape and places of the land, and if you want, maybe make a fancier version. One reason I would like to have a world map is because certain areas might be hard to find - for example there's two dungeons kind of hidden in the middle plateau area and a hermit living up there. Also it would clarify some of the NPC's who talk about places "In the west", for example Wendy's castle verses the Wereshade Castle, etc.

Let me know what you think and thanks again! Madman keeps getting better and better thanks to the input from you guys! -Rob

P.S. Can't resist! How many other developers listen to and adopt ideas from potential players? I, Dr. Dungeon, listen to and apply good advice!

so i guess its a restart yet again then?

and sure, gimme a rough draw and ill see what i can do, but i am not a Photashop/Paint/Deluxe Paint/GrafX pro though, ill draw a map with pen and paper for ya.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

One other problem I discovered. I tried to flee from a battle on the overland map, by slipping into a cave, but it seems I cannot flee into a dungeon while in combat. It was a little annoying, since I was then separated by a hill, so I had to go all the way back in order to kill of the monsters. I'm 10th level now and have been chopping through masses of enemies like I was some kind of sword-wielding anime character.

 

[DrDungeon]

Deuce, fixed! You can now run into a dungeon to flee battle. Luzur, I'm working right now on a little proto map and will let you know when its done.
Hope you guys are having fun! -Rob

 

[DrDungeon]

Luzur - I sent the map to your email. Also, I have addressed everything mentioned so far for beta 4.3 and its looking good! -Rob

 

[DrDungeon]

Deuce - about how far are you into the game? How many quests are in your journal? I'm trying to get a feel for size to eventually work out a demo and how much should be included in the demo. Thanks, -Rob

 

[Luzur]

alrighty, got it and gonna look into it later on.

Edit: Uhm that map is actually pretty good enough, you want a more Might and Magic kinda map or what?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I hit a stall since coming home from across the world and getting re-aclimated. I was told to find some shades and offer them the gem. Have gem, cannot find shades yet, but still exploring. Find a witch who wants two rings, one for her and another for her sister. Have ring, but she won't take it until I find second. Still exploring for that, too. Found an ice cave that won't let me enter without some armor artifact. Found a number of green and red keys, but have no idea what they are for. I have no idea how far I am, just a lot of mysteries without evident solutions so far.

 

[DrDungeon]

Wow, Luzur, if you can make it look like a Might and Magic map, that would be pretty incredible. I was actually thinking of something like that. If not, don't worry - I could always re-vamp the one I sent you. Its actually a pixel by pixel draw of the mainmap.

Deuce, good work in finding all that stuff. Maybe I could send you the map I sent Luzur. You must have met Wendy the Water Witch and read her book, or maybe got caught stealing or pickpocketing and sent to the Blasted Lands and met the Fire Witch and read a similar book. Of course, talking to them is most important. Especially Wendy. She has a device which is very helpful. Fancy rings like they want would likely be in an art guild somewhere. Hope you're making and selling swords or something to get rich.

Hang on to those keys! You'll learn of them very soon.

WereShade Castle is waaayy to the west, past Wendy's teleporter, past the little town and plateaus along the western beach. Look out for wereshades!

Yes - the Ice Cave is one of the last places to go. You'll need a full set of magic armor to get in (even with the new combat escape fix). You might have seen how its going as a lot of quests involve getting these magic armor pieces. Have fun! -Rob

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Oh, I got the nice item in the last hour, and according to a certain location I travelled to, I found out there are only about three places I have yet to visit. I am also quite rich now, though I never stole in the game. I also got the ring I picked up before at the art guild. It just occurred to me I may be able to purchase a second from the same location, and I'll give that a go next.

I found out that you can keep putting skill points into a skill despite the max being 200. You don't go above the 200 limit, but you do lose the skill points you earned as if you had. A possible bug?

 

[DrDungeon]

200! Never thought anyone would reach that. Hope you have some in detecting secret passes and traps. If it still clicks and downs points at 200 then yes, that's a bug and easily fixed. Thanks for finding that! Everything's looking good here in beta 4.3 with the combat tweaks, escape, go in/out dungeons, etc. Other than that, the story and quests should be pretty much the same as what you have there. Still awaiting word from my Indie friend whose giving it a go as well. Will keep updated. -Rob

 

[Luzur]

i kinda need to know some details, that "garden" at riverview, is that a cemetary? and that grey blob above, is that a tower?

also, what does Wereshades look like?

 

[DrDungeon]

Not sure about the garden. Do you mean the farm plot by the artist's guild? The grey thing is the tower. The map only shows the wereshades Castle. Those are the big bad green dudes. What I'm fussing with right now is to try to make one more detailed. The tricky part is that I'm pulling this directly from the main map array in the program. The trouble there is that some of the unseen parts of the map include interiors of houses, etc., and I'm trying to figure out how to show just the overland itself. I'll let you know how I make out.

 

[Luzur]

it looks like a cemetary to me, since it is fenced in with black lines and have smaller buildings in it (looked like mausoleums)

 

[DrDungeon]

I'll send you the latest prototype. One problem is that the land is larger than I thought so a lot of stuff is really tiny. Much more detail, though. Check your mail. -Rob

 

[PeeWee]

Dear gentlemen and ladies,

Hello.

In this post I will try to make confusion disappear and to help those, who are currently playing and / or testing the new "MadMan". Remember: People like us should both think of what the player should do and what the player might do and both play and test. I am trying to make correct use of the English language, including interpunction, including using quote-marks everywhere I should use them and nowhere I should not use them and using capital letters everywhere I should use them and nowhere I should not use them. I am trying to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but I cannot be sure the information I possess is complete and without errors.

Note:
There is not a definitive / definite release-date for the new "MadMan".

Warning for the rest of this post: Spoiler(s)-alert!

In the old "MadMan", there are two groups of Gazers. You have to make peace with one of them. You cannot complete the game without learning, knowing and understanding this. I completed the old "MadMan" and if you are stuck in this game, please let me know and I may be able to help you.

The rest of this post is about the new "MadMan". Remember the spoiler(s)-alert!

I have never seen a world-map of the new "MadMan".

When you are at the "Main Menu", read all the information at "Instructions", including the "Starting Tips", including the "attachment", including everything by both Dr. Dungeon and Ol’ Killer Jack-Bill.

You should try to get all the information you can get from Tammy at WaterCross at the beginning of the game. This is a start in learning about herbs, altars, potions, herbalism, alchemy, reagents, ingredients for potions, magic, arcane, skills, shrines and mana.

In this game, "remains" are the bloody remains usually or always either left behind by a defeated enemy or given to you by the Fire Witch after talking to her, returning 10 rubies from The Blasted Lands and talking to her again, which has to be done before you can reunite the Fire Witch and the Water Witch.

There are lockpicks in the game.

After defeating all enemies in a combat, remember to loot and take with you what you either need yourself or could sell for gold. Always take with you:
- lockpicks
- "remains"

Always take lockpicks and "remains" with you, when you find them.

Near the beginning of the game, go to CliffSide, talk to Bonnie and read both of her books, including the information about the elderberry wine and including the information on the slip of paper Bonnie left behind.
Note:
- Bonnie does not sell lamp oil, but you can buy it from Dorona at WaterCross. This has two functions:
1 It is lamp oil for a lantern.
2 It can be used to make potions.
- Both Dorona (at WaterCross) and Bonnie (at CliffSide) sell the Milenweed. You can also pick it from the land. This has two functions:
1 After starting the game, talk to Tammy, say and ask everything you can, get 1 Milenweed, give the Milenweed to Tammy, talk to Tammy and say and ask everything you can.
2 It can be used to make potions.
- Bonnie does not sell The Potion of Speed or The Speed Potion. You can either find it (at least in the cave / cavern North of CliffSide) or make it. This has two functions:
1 One of the two functions is mentioned in one of Bonnie’s two books.
2 One of the two functions is mentioned by a hermit named Berwin.

There are 11 shrines in the game. I have found all 11 of them.

In the desert, there is a building with a switch in the centre / the middle. There are altars around the building. There is 1 altar, that looks different than all the other altars around the building.

Among other things, there are a Magic Armor and 4 different Rings inside the cave / cavern North of CliffSide: Holy, King, Ninja and Ranger. You need 1 of each of those Rings to complete the game.

Among the different kinds of keys in the game are the 4 different kinds of keys you can find in Mighty Bahgeza’s throneroom inside the WereShade Castle. You need 1 of each of those keys to complete the game.

Ol’ Killer Jack-Bill can be found at two places in the new "MadMan":
1 near the Fire Witch (in The Blasted Lands)
2 near the Water Witch
At both places he runs a lemonade stand, where you can get:
1 a limited supply of Ol’ Killer Jack-Bill’s cigars
2 a limited supply of Ol’ Killer Jack-Bill’s lollipops
3 a limited supply of Ol’ Killer Jack-Bill’s lemonade

When your spellbook is full, you have, among the other spells, a spell named "Insight". During combat, if you have enough mana and enough action points, you can use this spell to learn more about your enemies.

Among the enemies in the new "MadMan" are the WereShades and the Ice Shades. One of the differences between a WereShade and an Ice Shade is that a WereShade looks kind of green and an Ice Shade looks kind of blue.

There are two groups of WereShades in the new "MadMan". One group is a group of 10 WereShades. Somewhere in the game is the WereShade Castle. There are the 10 WereShades you are not supposed to fight, and cannot fight, but can talk with: 4 outside the castle (including 1 on the roof of the castle) and 6 inside. Talk to all 10 of them.

There is a town or village named Gromm or Grom in the game. There you can find 3 buildings. Inside each of the buildings is 1 Master. 1 of those Masters is Maria, the Master of Justice. That building is shaped like a cross as you can tell by looking at it from either the inside or the outside. You can only get inside this building by stealing or pickpocketing something and being caught. The building does not have any doors and is some sort of a prison.

There are two witches in the game. They are the elemental withes. They are each other’s sisters. Each of them has a castle. Each of them has a book or a letter inside her castle. Visit both castles and read both books or letters.

At the start of the game, there are 15 rubies in The Blasted Lands. I have found all 15 of them. You have to find at least 10 of them before you can reunite the Fire Witch and the Water Witch. Remember to talk to the Fire Witch.

The Water Witch has hidden a broom. Remember to talk to the Water Witch. When you have the broom, you can use it to teleport into the hall of teleporters, if you are not, for example, in combat. You have to find the broom and then talk to the Water Witch again before you can reunite the Fire Witch and the Water Witch.

When we count all villages, towns and cities together, there are 5 of them:
WaterCross, CliffSide, RiverView, Gromm or Grom and the City of Gold and White. Try to visit all of them.

There is an orange farm or a peach farm in RiverView. That is Dennis’ farm. Talk to Dennis there to understand why I am saying "an orange farm or a peach farm". While you are at Dennis’ farm, keep in mind that there is both a difference between an orange and a peach and a difference between good and rotten.

After activating / turning on / powering up the City of Gold and White, talk to the 9 robots, if they are robots, that look different than the robot, if they are robots, that looks red. You have to complete 5 quests before talking to the robot, if they are robots, that looks red. The robot, if they are robots, that looks red, is the keeper of The Mach Gryphon.

There are 2 buildings in the game that do not have any doors, when you start the game, but will each have a door after completing one or more quests. The building, that is shaped like a cross, is sort of a prison, and is neither one of those 2 buildings, since it never has any doors. One of the buildings is a building on the top of a mountain. Inside this building is a hermit named Berwin. A door appears after doing one or more things at the orange farm or the peach farm. The other building is a tower. The tower is at RiverView. The door appears after you have done certain things inside the City of Gold and White.

A building, the Artist’s Guild, is at RiverView. There are only 2 kinds of objects you can buy:
- a Fire Gem
- a Ring of Dew, which may be a Ring of Fire and Ice
If you want a Fire Gem or a Ring of Dew, which may be a Ring of Fire and Ice, the Artist’s Guild at RiverView is the only place in the game, where those objects can be found. You cannot find those objects anywhere else in the game. If you want to complete the game, sooner or later, you will need to buy at least 1 Fire Gem and 3 Rings of Dew, which may be Rings of Fire and Ice, but you do not need to buy all 3 at the same time.

There are not any cemetaries or graveyards in the game.

Good bye. Bye, bye.

PW, one of Dr. Dungeon’s fans, reader of "THE DAILY DUNGEON" and
GuildMaster and / or Dungeon Master

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Uh oh. I've sold every ruby I could get my hands on... Doh!

 

[PeeWee]

Answer(s) to Deuce Traveler. Warning: Spoiler(s)-alert!

Spoiler

In The Blasted Lands in the new "MadMan" you are supposed to do several things, including:
- talking to the Fire Witch
- reading the book / letter in the Fire Witch’s castle
- returning 10 rubies of the 15 rubies from The Blasted Lands to the Fire Witch
- talking to the Fire Witch
- picking up the "remains" the Fire Witch gives you
- giving a Ring of Dew, which may be a Ring of Fire and Ice, to the Fire Witch
There are many things to do in The Blasted Lands, but as for those 6 things, I suggest you use this order, except maybe for the first and second things, which could be the other way around. I do not think first reading the book / letter in the Fire Witch’s castle and then talking to the Fire Witch will mess up anything.

Note: The player has to return 10 rubies from The Blasted Lands to the Fire Witch before giving her a Ring of Dew, which may be a Ring of Fire and Ice, and has to talk to the Water Witch, find the broom and talk to the Water Witch again, before giving the Water Witch a Ring of Dew, which may be a Ring of Fire and Ice.

Deuce Traveler, it may be a good idea to start the new "MadMan" all over again, version Beta 4.1, in case you were not playing that, but Dr. Dungeon had sent it to you, as well.

 

[PeeWee]

Now, I, PW, have a question for everybody, gentlemen and ladies. So far, are Dr. Dungeon and I the only two persons, who have, at least once, completed, at least one version of the NEW "MadMan"?

Hints. Warning: Spoiler(s)-alert!

Spoiler

If you read my previous 2 posts, you should know:
- You should not sell all rubies in the new "MadMan".
- You need to buy 3 Rings of Dew, which may be Rings of Fire and Ice.

- Here is what you need the 3 Rings of Dew, which may be Rings of Fire and Ice, for:
1 to give one to the Fire Witch
2 to give one to the Water Witch
3 in the City of Gold and White
- Do not sell all necklaces. You will need one, for example, the one in the City of Gold and White, in the City of Gold and White.
- The Gaja clover has two functions:
1 It can be used to make a potion.
2 You need one in the City of Gold and White.
- The Worver root has two functions:
1 It can be used to make a potion.
2 After giving Tammy the Milenweed, she tells you the other way to use it.
- You need a bucket of water in the City of Gold and White.
- You need a sextant in the City of Gold and White, and I do not mean to tell what location you are at. So, sextants have 2 functions.

Note that there are exactly 10 robots, if they are robots, in the City of Gold and White.

- After getting inside the City of Gold and White, the first thing you should do, is activating / turning on / powering up the City of Gold and White, and the second thing you should do, is talking to the 9 robots, if they are robots, that look different than the robot, if they are robots, that looks red.

If anybody could answer the question at the beginning of the post you are reading right now, it would really be much appreciated.

 

[DrDungeon]

Nay - version 4.3 is ready, but I was waiting more feedback from Deuce and Luzur in case there's any other stuff to do. PeeWee! Is it possible to give the ring to Wendy after you get the broom but BEFORE you talk to her about it? And does that screw up the broom activation? I hadn't thought of it and I'm a bit lazy right now to find out.
Also, thanks for the tips, but leave out any more of the City, Tower, etc., as that's the whole point of the game and I'm curious what Luzur and Deuce will think of it, plus Ari when he gets to playing a bit more. So I'd rather see them figure out the city and endgame themselves.

I hadn't thought anyone would get all the rubies and not give ten to Fiametta as she asks. She's pretty cute. I would. Deuce, do you mean rubies you found, or rubies from the Blasted Lands? There are indeed 15 of them there, mostly to set the Fire Elementals on the player and satisfy the Fire Witch.

Still trying to figure out a world map. Will wait on Luzur a bit as he has a new, more detailed version. More to come. -Rob

 

[DrDungeon]

For a minute there I thought PeeWee was my old AI program talking, SAL 10,000.

 

[PeeWee]

Note:
One should not confuse "DOSBox" with "Dropbox".

I, PW, tried the following, in the NEW "MadMan" version Beta 4.1:
- I started the game.
- I did many things I had to do.
- I bought 1 Ring of Dew, which may be a Ring of Fire and Ice.
- I talked to the Water Witch.
- I read the book / letter in the Water Witch’s castle.
- I got the broom.

Note:
- When I picked up the broom, the diary did NOT flash, there was NOT a ringing sound and (when I read the diary) there was NOT any new text in the diary.
- I tried using the broom AFTER picking it up BUT BEFORE using it. I read:
"I should talk to Wendy about how to use it."
- I INTENTIONALLY have not talked to the Water Witch ever since I picked up the broom.
- I tried giving the Ring to the Water Witch AFTER picking up the broom BUT NOT having talked to the Water Witch ever since. I read:
"I think I'll give this to her later."
- I tried using the broom AGAIN AFTER picking it up, AFTER UNSUCCESFULLY trying to give the Ring to the Water Witch BUT NOT having talked to the Water ever since I picked up the broom. The broom does not work at all. It just says, again:
"I should talk to Wendy about how to use it."

Conclusions:
1 It is NOT possible to give the Ring to the Water Witch AFTER picking up the broom BUT BEFORE talking to the Water Witch about it.
2 About Dr. Dungeon’s question if it screws up the broom activation, the broom does not work at all, since I have NOT talked to the Water Witch, ever since I picked up the broom, NOT EVEN AFTER UNSUCCESSFULLY trying to give the Ring to the Water Witch.
3 I cannot use the broom until I have picked it up AND talked to the Water Witch about it.
4 The diary is not updated until I have picked up the broom AND talked to the Water Witch about it.
5 I cannot give the Ring to the Water Witch until I have picked up the broom AND talked to the Water Witch about it.

I hope this answers several of Dr. Dungeon’s questions and takes away some of Dr. Dungeon’s worries.

I would like to thank Dr. Dungeon, Deuce Traveler, Luzur, the gentleman named Ari and everybody else who has contributed to the new "MadMan" so far and / or has tried to do so and / or is trying to do so.