"DRPG" Stranger of Sword City

[CryptRat]

the nickname field doesn't have as many characters as the name fields which means you might want to have a character's nickname the same thing as their real name and straight up not be able to.

Too few portraits by class

lackluster portraits

There is no way to put custom portrait.

EDIT : But more seriously, they're complaining about the UI, the map system and the game being slow.

 

[Suicidal]

I'll probably stick to LoT2 and games alike, but I'm curious as to why Elminage has such poor reviews on Steam.

I'd say it's because of low user-friendliness. I tried E:G some time ago and found it quite difficult to get into - I didn't like the interface because I needed 5+ button presses to achieve the same result that other games let me achieve with 2, I didn't like the heavy RNG element, I didn't like how slowly everything was happening (you constantly bump into monsters, combat takes long, character experience crawls up at a snail's pace and from what I've heard the late game levels are supposed to reach 3 digits) and I really hated some of the baffling design decisions like equipped items taking away inventory space, which makes no sense neither from the realism standpoint (why does putting on a wizard hat let me carry one less bundle of grass in my pocket) and from the fun standpoint (equipping your characters in a crawler is fun, finding new items is also fun, but in this case you sacrifice one type of fun for another, which is a very J.E. Sawyer way of doing things). Combine that with the fact that most steam users have a much lower tolerance for this kind of shit and are generally more casual than RPG Codex members and here's your explanation.

I don't think E:G is a bad game and I'm interested in giving it another chance later. Even with all that bullshit there's something interesting about it that makes me want to play it some more. Also while at work I watched a let's play series of it on Youtube, the only series of this game that lasted for more than a few episodes but still was abandoned, and it showed some pretty cool moments and interesting dungeon design.

BTW aweigh you should totally do a complete video playthrough of E:G, you'll be a Youtube star. Well, not really, but it would be the only complete E:G let's play in existence, that's something, right?

 

[Celerity]

I think it'd be funnier if he salt quit in Hastrana.

 

[aweigh]

pakoito

The reason anyone might dislike E: Gothic is simply because they dislike Wizardry. It is made by ex-Wizardry devs and is a Wizardry-clone. Simply read through the E: Gothic thread in this very sub-forum and you will find tons of people talking about their playthroughs and praising the game for the incredibly good turn-based dungeon crawler it is.

The Steam reviewers probably didn't like it because it is a hard-core, old-school dungeon crawler that requires people to *think*. The game is not for everyone. It's hard-core, it's intelligently designed, it features fantastic dungeon design and it features complex party building and class advancement. Simply put: people don't like hard games.

Every complaint Suicidal talked about in his post (such as equipped items taking inventory space), is part and parcel of Wizardry series. EXAMPLE: His complaint about equipped items taking up inventory space. This is because dungeon crawlers are about resource management, and something Suicidal failed to mention is that you have access to a Warehouse where over-flow items are immediately sent for storage if your party's inventory is full.

Literally every single "complaint" he made is due to a specific deisgn decision, be it resource management, itemization or class balancing. Suicidal 's complaints are the kind of complaints a gamer who isn't very familiar with this sub-genre (turn-based 'crawlers) would make.

If you're looking for an easy game, don't play E: Gothic. If you're looking for the best turn-based Wizardry-clone 'crawler made in the last 16 years, then play Elminage: Gothic. I recommend you play the game and judge for yourself: it's literally worth less than 10 bucks on Steam. And for the love of god, man, DON'T MAKE DECISIONS BASED OFF STEAM REVIEWS!

 

[aweigh]

pakoito

Here is a gameplay video of Elminage Gothic which features a 4-minute slice of me playing through a small section of one of the game's best dungeons, "The Royal Tomb, and the video features its combat AND a puzzle. Watch the video and judge for yourself:



Also, Dorarnae already has a complete YouTube playthrough of all 4 Elminage games.

Seriously, Suicidal, at the very least read through a game's Codex thread before making misinformed rants. Or better yet, go educate yourself and go play Wizardry or Might and Magic. Everything you complain about is exactly what fans of turn-based 'crawlers enjoy.

The E: Gothic thread also has dozens of Codexers' complete playthrough accounts, in a post-by-post style as they progress through the game. But, like I said, if it's a YouTube playthrough you're looking for then view Dorarnae's videos.

---------------------------------------------------------

EDIT MADE AFTER CALMING DOWN: Suicidal, I apologize if I come off as too strongly, and I'm sure you have played plenty of crawlers. It's just that your "complaints" triggered me because all of them are about things you seem to be misinformed about.

Like I said, the Elminage devs used to make Wizardry games, and Elminage is the culmination of all of the years they spent making them. Elminage series is basically Wizardry, but polished to the nth degree, with better dungeons, better classes, and better party advancement and gameplay mechanics.

It also has better spell system as well, AND better puzzles.

Once again, I don't mean to belittle you and I admit I flew off the handle a bit much. Like I said to pakoito , go ahead and take the plunge (E: Gothic is 9.99 USD on Steam), and enjoy one of the best Wizardry-clones to ever come out.

Hell, if you want, both of you just PM me and I will fucking send you my digital copy of the game in a nice .zip file via my FireDrop account. The only reason I don't just go ahead and post these FireDrop links in this very post is because it is against Codex rules to openly post links to games still being sold (Abandonware is fine, though).

I can also give both of you FireDrop links to my digital copy of SoSC as well! I love turn-based crawlers SO FUCKING MUCH that nothing in this world makes me happier than sharing these great games with people who might otherwise not get the chance to play them.

 

[pakoito]

Thank you for the information. Yes, I don't believe the game may be for me ATM. Thanks!

 

[aweigh]

pakoito

Did you watch the video? If you did, and didn't like what you saw, then no prob! To each their own.

Like we all said: LoT is very different from traditional turn-based dungeon crawlers. I always call LoT the "crawler made for people who don't like dungeon crawlers".

And, BTW, I have played LoT 2 (have not played the first one), and I did enjoy it. I just didn't enjoy it as much as I enjoy real dungeon crawlers. Very different types of games.

EDIT: Oh, and SoSC is also another "Wiz-clone", although one much more mainstream (i.e. less hard-core) than SoSC. So if you didn't like what you saw in the E: Gothic video... you will not enjoy SoSC either.

 

[pakoito]

I did watch the video and got annoyed at your feeble attempts to solve the puzzle!! I played some proper Dungeon Crawlers when I was a tween, like Shadow over Riva and Anvil of Dawn, and the memories are mixed. Right now I don't have the time/energy for them, even though I thought I would just for the combat mechanics, but who knows in a couple of years.

I'm fine with that description of LoT2 too.

 

[aweigh]

pakoito

That puzzle is actually quite hard, and I actually solved it at the very end of the video.

BTW, although I didn't finish LoT 2 (didn't do the post-game), I've read that many consider the 1st one to be a better game, and to be quite different to the sequel.

True? If so, I'm currently out of shit to play so that would be good to waste some time on. Normally I'd take my own advice and "try it for myself", but I already tried the 2nd game.

 

[Suicidal]

Also, Dorarnae already has a complete YouTube playthrough of all 4 Elminage games.

Seriously, Suicidal, at the very least read through a game's Codex thread before making misinformed rants. Or better yet, go educate yourself and go play Wizardry or Might and Magic. Everything you complain about is exactly what fans of turn-based 'crawlers enjoy.

The E: Gothic thread also has dozens of Codexers' complete playthrough accounts, in a post-by-post style as they progress through the game. But, like I said, if it's a YouTube playthrough you're looking for then view Dorarnae's videos.

Oh shit, really? Could you link his channel or something? I need something to watch at work.

Also don't worry, I take no offense. I admit I didn't make it very far into the game so I probably don't know most of what goes on there and the stuff I said is just based on my initial impressions. I want to give E:G another chance, it's just I have so many fucking games to play now it'll be a while before I get to it.

pakoito

That puzzle is actually quite hard, and I actually solved it at the very end of the video.

BTW, although I didn't finish LoT 2 (didn't do the post-game), I've read that many consider the 1st one to be a better game, and to be quite different to the sequel.

True? If so, I'm currently out of shit to play so that would be good to waste some time on. Normally I'd take my own advice and "try it for myself", but I already tried the 2nd game.

Hmm, I disagree. While the 1st one is harder (and grindier) than the 2nd, it also lacks some of the things that I liked some much about LoT2, like character customization options, variety of item effects, subclasses and etc. It's also a lot more fucking cryptic and forces you to deal with shit like not being able to see enemy health bars in a battle that is basically unwinnable without this knowledge. Still a great game, though.

 

[aweigh]

thanks for the LoT 1 breakdown, Suicidal , if what you say is true and it lacks all of those things... I *definitely* won't like it.

I played LoT 2 up to the normal ending, but didn't feel any desire to do the post-game. BTW, the reason I played LoT 2 at all is because it was recommended to me as a "hard-core dungeon crawler". While it definitely is hard-core... I dunno about calling it a dungeon crawler in the traditional sense.

I'll say this though: I cannot think of any game(s) similar in any way to the mix of gameplay mechanics that LoT 2 offers. It definitely is not for everyone, and its eclectic "mix" puts off fans who come to the game as fans of specific sub-genres as the game cherry-picks gameplay elements from wildly different styles of games.

I literally cannot think of any game that offers the same specific LoT 2 experience.

EDIT: BTW, the fact that this thread about Stranger of Sword City has basically become a talking hub about other, better dungeon crawlers...

Meanwhile the Elminage: Gothic thread is in the hundreds of pages and every couple of weeks someone new starts posting and talking about how they're enjoying the game says all you need to know about the difference in quality! :D

 

[aweigh]

Suicidal
pakoito

Dorarnae 's YT channel, which features complete playthroughs of almost every turn-based 'crawler you can possibly imagine: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCADOIq00Otw_dQFPFOvFMBw

My own humble YT channel which features dozens of hex editing and translation videos; as well as gameplay videos of many turn-based 'crawlers (some of which aren't even on Dorarnae's channel, like the ultra-rare Wizardry: Chronicle for Japanese PC), and lots and lots of Street Fighter videos of my own matches... oh, I also have gameplay videos of stuff like how a particular game runs on an emulator.

IMO, aside from my Street Fighter match videos, it's the 2nd best YT channel for dungeon crawlers fanatics to enjoy gameplay or to simply know how a particular 'crawler plays. (The 1st best channel being Dorarnae's).

My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqKsnu4VpZs2c30_UAEGm1g

EDIT: and no, my channel is not monetized, in case you might be wondering about that. Nor is Dorarnae's. We're not fluent .

:D :D :D :D :D

 

[pakoito]

I literally cannot think of any game that offers the same specific LoT 2 experience.

Well that's annoying, because I've been nagging people about it since I played it. Closest thing are TRPGs and the such, which I also like in small doses.

 

[Suicidal]

thanks for the LoT 1 breakdown, Suicidal , if what you say is true and it lacks all of those things... I *definitely* won't like it.

I played LoT 2 up to the normal ending, but didn't feel any desire to do the post-game. BTW, the reason I played LoT 2 at all is because it was recommended to me as a "hard-core dungeon crawler". While it definitely is hard-core... I dunno about calling it a dungeon crawler in the traditional sense.

I'll say this though: I cannot think of any game(s) similar in any way to the mix of gameplay mechanics that LoT 2 offers. It definitely is not for everyone, and its eclectic "mix" puts off fans who come to the game as fans of specific sub-genres as the game cherry-picks gameplay elements from wildly different styles of games.

I literally cannot think of any game that offers the same specific LoT 2 experience.

EDIT: BTW, the fact that this thread about Stranger of Sword City has basically become a talking hub about other, better dungeon crawlers...

Meanwhile the Elminage: Gothic thread is in the hundreds of pages and every couple of weeks someone new starts posting and talking about how they're enjoying the game says all you need to know about the difference in quality! :D

Well if you still give a shit you can read my more detailed analysis in the game's topic: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...e-op-for-links-etc.60646/page-10#post-4889217

The thing is, its simplicity compared to LoT2 is both a good and a bad thing. While it makes the game less fun and lowers its level of character building to that of typical low-brow JRPG, it also makes the game harder. While I really liked the levels of customization available in LoT2 it's pretty apparent that properly balancing this much shit is very difficult for a small indie game dev.

With so many characters, that also have plenty of active and passive skills, can learn different subclasses that also have more skills that can synergize with their existing skills or skills of other characters the game becomes much easier to break through different overpowered or cheesy party builds that the developer maybe didn't even consider. For example, my primary team for late game and post game clearing consisted of buffing the shit out of and giving several turns in a row to one of my nuker characters and killing a boss before it made its 2-3rd turn. Still, unlike, say SoSC, where breaking the game involved using the veil spell and/or buffing accuracy/dodge to 99 and it worked for all encounters, making a broken party in LoT2 still required extensive game knowledge because of all the different possible character-class-party combinations and I didn't feel like I'm cheaping the game out by doing so. Plus, it didn't work for all encounters.

I agree that LoT 1/2 are very weird games and going in with zero expectations into LoT 2 I had no idea I would like it as much as I did. I guess it's the kind of thing I never knew I wanted until I had it.

Suicidal
pakoito

Dorarnae 's YT channel, which features complete playthroughs of almost every turn-based 'crawler you can possibly imagine: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCADOIq00Otw_dQFPFOvFMBw

My own humble YT channel which features dozens of hex editing and translation videos; as well as gameplay videos of many turn-based 'crawlers (some of which aren't even on Dorarnae's channel, like the ultra-rare Wizardry: Chronicle for Japanese PC), and lots and lots of Street Fighter videos of my own matches... oh, I also have gameplay videos of stuff like how a particular game runs on an emulator.

IMO, aside from my Street Fighter match videos, it's the 2nd best YT channel for dungeon crawlers fanatics to enjoy gameplay or to simply know how a particular 'crawler plays. (The 1st best channel being Dorarnae's).

My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqKsnu4VpZs2c30_UAEGm1g

EDIT: and no, my channel is not monetized, in case you might be wondering about that. Nor is Dorarnae's. We're not fluent .

:D :D :D :D :D

I hope I'm not going blind, but I don't see any full playthroughs on that channel. The Elminage game let's plays are like 10-15 videos long. I was hoping for something like a 200 part full let's play from party creation to killing the final boss. Oh well, I'll watch those anyway, thanks. The one that I watched before was like 50 videos long and the player just stopped doing them around the wind dungeon.

 

[aweigh]

Suicidal

I had completely forgotten about one channel that DOES have full playthroughs, from char-gen to ending credits, and each "segment" is usually 1-2 hours long.

The caveat is that unlike Dorarnae and myself, it has a guy talking throughout explaining shit... in Japanese. Below is the link to the Japanese guy's YT channel, featuring literally hundreds of hours of DRPG playthroughs from char-gen to ending credits accompanied by commentary in japanese: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFzAWas3onqAT4GTCBBc99w

Here is his Part 1 of his PC-98 playthrough of... WIZARDRY 4, clocking in at 1 hour exactly, and there are TWENTY SIX PARTS:



In cases like Wizardry 4, which did not feature music, he uses the soundtrack from the Playstation 1 port of the game.

...oh, and he has over 25 dungeon crawlers, each one with 20-30 hours of footage. Like you asked: beginning to end!

EDIT: I've watched almost all of his videos and I like falling asleep to the sound of his voice, hehe. I've actually begun watching one of his full let's plays, fallen asleep, and then had super fucked up dreams of being inside a dungeon crawler.

Domo!

 

[Suicidal]

snip

Thanks for that channel. Not sure if I'll watch it, though. If there's commentary in a let's play I want it to be in a language I can understand. I hate not understanding shit.

Still can't find Doranae's complete let's plays. You sure they're not hidden/unlisted or something?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrBE-lUUdKuFBaR1yK65HanF0M3giQOkr is this not the let's play series you're talking about?

 

[aweigh]

Er, sorry about that, I was mentally confused and thought Dorar's videos were full playthroughs. I was mixing his channel with the japanese guy's channel in my head. You are correct, while Dorar does feature "playthroughs" of each game on his channel they're presented in 15 minute chunks, and not in a continuous manner: basically they're "highlight reels", each one featuring a particular part of the dungeon/whatever, in 15 minute increments.

My own channel is more for stuff like showing proof-of-concept translation projects I'm doing myself, or to showcase 5-10 minutes of gameplay of most turn-based dungeon crawlers.

And tons of Street Fighter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, to bring this back to the topic of Stranger of Sword City:

- I think the one thing that holds SoSC back from being above-average instead of what it is, (i.e. average); it is the fact that 95% of the fights in the entire game are the very definition of trash fights and can be won by using auto-battle.

- And then, on the flip side of things, the other 5% are ridiculous boss fights where the majority of the strategy involved in winning is completely removed of any depth because it revolves around utilizing the protagonist's Win-Button special skills that you upgrade throughout the game, and almost always in the same fashion.

I was taking a dump earlier, thinking about this very subject, and I've decided I'm gonna start trying to mod via hex-editing the monster files of SoSC in order to:

- Lower the amount of damage reduction that enemies have when attacked by weapons which do not have their "type": this is so that ALL weapons are useful and...

- ...so that you're not forced to robotically cast the exact same two abilities every single trash-fight which removes weapon-type DR.

Obviously, after doing that:

- I plan to raise those enemies stats enough that they pose a threat. Obviously I haven't decided whether that will be accomplished raising HP, Attributes or by giving them different attacks: first I need to actually begin deconstructing how Team Muramasa coded the monster files.

I make no promises but... should make the game way more fun.

Any suggestions on stuff I should (try) to change, Suicidal ?

- Perhaps make ALL enemies have a chance to drop loot?

@Courter and Dorarnae , feel free to suggest as well, and I tagged ya because you're both long past done with SoSC and probably won't be checking this thread.

 

[Suicidal]

snip

Well my suggestion would be to not waste time tinkering with SoSC - just leave it be as it is and make a complete E:G let's play in English because clearly we're lacking one of those.

But if you're really interested in attempting to improve the game I'd suggest rebalancing the enemies' (especially late game bosses') damage so that their basic attacks do less than 5x your characters' max hp in damage forcing you to use veil/dodge buffs and their magic spells do more than gently tickle your cheeks. Because whatever great cosmic intellect came up with the brilliant idea to balance the boss damage in the game the way it is should not have had any hand in its development.

 

[aweigh]

Hmm... I'll think about it. I've already played through Elminage: Gothic like, 5 times, (no joke), might as well play it again and film it.

 

[Emmanuel2]

...

BTW, to bring this back to the topic of Stranger of Sword City:

- I think the one thing that holds SoSC back from being above-average instead of what it is, (i.e. average); it is the fact that 95% of the fights in the entire game are the very definition of trash fights and can be won by using auto-battle.

- And then, on the flip side of things, the other 5% are ridiculous boss fights where the majority of the strategy involved in winning is completely removed of any depth because it revolves around utilizing the protagonist's Win-Button special skills that you upgrade throughout the game, and almost always in the same fashion.

I was taking a dump earlier, thinking about this very subject, and I've decided I'm gonna start trying to mod via hex-editing the monster files of SoSC in order to:

- Lower the amount of damage reduction that enemies have when attacked by weapons which do not have their "type": this is so that ALL weapons are useful and...

- ...so that you're not forced to robotically cast the exact same two abilities every single trash-fight which removes weapon-type DR.

Obviously, after doing that:

- I plan to raise those enemies stats enough that they pose a threat. Obviously I haven't decided whether that will be accomplished raising HP, Attributes or by giving them different attacks: first I need to actually begin deconstructing how Team Muramasa coded the monster files.

I make no promises but... should make the game way more fun.
...

- Perhaps make ALL enemies have a chance to drop loot?

It would take alot more effort and I won't think all of it is possible, but I guess I can have a jab at it.

= To my knowledge, there are only two actions that remove DR and that's the two "Bless" spells of SoSC. I suggest leaving it alone since in E:G early game, you had to bless your party to damage ghosts if you don't have a Lord/Valkyrie on your team or a cleric that could do reliable damage.

+ Rebalance God Shield / Veils. Make it so that it takes a max number of attacks or have a duration rather than all attacks, this way it forces you to optimise turns and make it so that Gods can't be made useless. This single skill has made the postgame content trivial and I'm glad I made the mistake of taking the shitty Sword Bond x2 instead of Light/Dark Veil and even then the postgame was easy.

+Tweak god AIs and make them check for a veil buff so that they move forward instead of jacking off in the back. I think this is impossible? or very hard to do.

= Like how Suicidal put it, the game strangely relies on level difference to do damage calculations. You can still complete a good chunk of the game underlevelled (up to Elder and first Kyo fight).

+ Yes to making enemies drop loot but I think the expansion fixes this.

+ Make stacking Divinity Points really hard. Ambushing becomes pretty much optional because of the above. This would also help solve the Divinity spamming and making it an actual resource to manage.

+ Raising HP, resists and maybe damage of trash mobs.

 

[aweigh]

Those are all (except one of them) EXCELLENT suggestions.

However, I disagree on the two spells/skills that remove weapon-type DR (one of them is mage-class and the other cleric-class).

Why? Because the DR is so ridiculous when you hit an enemy with a weapon that does not have that enemies' "type" that it becomes unbelievably tedious not only juggling the weapon sets, but more so than that having to quick-change weapons during battle.

Since 95% of the game's fights take place outside of the "loot zones", that means that there is almost no incentive to waste time fighting trash-mobs, as it's much more effective to simply grind the "loot areas" for both loot AND experience points.

This menas that for those 95% of the game's fights your routine will invariably be, without fail:

- fight begins
- 1st round consists of your casters casting the 2 spells that remove enemy wepaon-type DR
- 2nd/3rd round consists of pressing the auto-battle button and killing all enemies
- receive no loot, and shit amount of XP

Rinse, lather, repeat. I think this alone, that which i just described, if REMEDIED in some way would better the entire game's "gameplay" to the nTH degree.

It's bewildering, really, since Team Muramasa / Exp. Inc.'s previous 'crawlers (Generation XTH: Code Hazard and its 2 sequels, Students of the Round, and Cross Blood Labyrinth) feature the exact same "system" of enemies having DR versus specific wepaon types, but unlike SoSC the DR itself is not so much of a big deal and you can steal win any fight even if you use non-type weapons.

Makes the game much more fun, since also, again UNLIKE SoSC, in their previous games all enemies have % to drop loot, and all of their previous games feature a detailed crafting/enchantment system that allows creating weapons with MULTIPLE "versus enemy" properties.

SoSC definitely has strengths, but the retarded idea of making loot available only inside designated areas and making enemies take basically no damage unless you use either the same spell(s) every battle, or constantly quick-change weapon sets just to clear a trash-mob fight (that won't give loot)... I think that is the game's single biggest problem.

However, everything else you mentioned is spot on: The veil skills are retarded and completely strip any sort of strategical depth to Lineage battles. Removing the veil system (and adjusting the bosses accordingly, obviously), would be the 2nd thing that most bigly impacts the game and make it more intellectual.

 

[Celerity]

Do I gotta build a fucking wall so I can get some Deepest Darkers other than me in this bitch? Because I will do it, I will make video games great again!

 

[Emmanuel2]

Those are all (except one of them) EXCELLENT suggestions.

However, I disagree on the two spells/skills that remove weapon-type DR (one of them is mage-class and the other cleric-class).

Why? Because the DR is so ridiculous when you hit an enemy with a weapon that does not have that enemies' "type" that it becomes unbelievably tedious not only juggling the weapon sets, but more so than that having to quick-change weapons during battle.

...

I never quick-changed nor equipped anything on the 2nd set, and I've only bothered with race damage types once I hit postgame so I never knew.

Maybe reducing the DR for normal enemies so that it doesn't require full circles to achieve normal damage but keeping the innate mage-class and cleric-class? This way, the "special" enemies would still remain special wherein a non-blessed fighter shouldn't be able to kill a rampaging ghost. It would present a neat problem aswell once enemies are buffed: "Do I buff my allies first? Do I anticipate an AoE damage and queue for a party heal? Do I use a damage spell? Or should I bless my teammates and hope that they do enough damage?"

 

[Krraloth]

the ninjas I think have a specularity effect of some sort on their models, and this gets processed pixel by agonising pixel.

Krraloth What happens if you set the blending unit accuracy to None?

I am happy to report that I am not experiencing any slowdowns when encountering lvl 6 ninjas in the Ancient Cemetary (b4) which is where the fps went to shit previously. I am using speedhacks EE cyclerate set to 1 resolution is set to native (mostly because the fog that is everywhere in the game fucks up my low power cpu) PCSX2 1.4.0 stable version.

 

[Hirato]

I don't remember how to get to the lower levels anymore, hahaha.

I somehow managed to re-discover a shortcut to B5, and I ran into some ninjas there,
They reduce my speed to about 80-85%, I very vaguely remember that ninjas took my FPS down to single digits and the only workaround was to switch to the software renderer.
I however don't recall if it was B5's ninjas that were doing the most extreme raping of FPS.

My build is self-compiled from https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/commit/81adc3ef4dbc8730dc3ac1d0527ab03068ad51af