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Duke Nukem 3D: 20th Anniversary World Tour - yet another Duke Nukem 3D rerelease

Unkillable Cat

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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
They could get away with it 20 years ago...but just barely.

They could get away with it even now. Gaming still isn't mainstream culture. It is a niche hobby now as it was then. Call of Duty and GTA selling 200 billion copies don't count. The gaming industry still isn't Hollywood, and writing for games still isn't a real job.

Wrong.

Oh how fucking wrong you are.

Global box office income for 2013: $35 billion.

2014: $36.4 billion.

2015: $35.9 billion.

Global game market revenue from 2012-2015: Starting at $66 billion and rising.

Are you really gonna try to say that an industry with TWICE the income of the GLOBAL box office (fuck Hollywood at this point) is a niche hobby, and that the sales figures don't count?

Do you even know how Hollywood works?

Another factor is the question of whether gamers and mainstream culture are as ignorant as they were 20 years ago. Maybe they still are as ignorant as back then (possibly even more so) but they have the internet now, and that helps them spot those pop culture references much faster than 20 years ago.

That's the reason for my "just barely" remark, BTW: The internet was becoming Useful as early as 1996. You could look things up and learn something. Metacrawler worked. Sure, back then only the biggest die-hard nerds actually bothered connecting all the dots together to make a "List of Pop Culture References in a Video Game", but that stopped being the case as early as 5 years later, in the first years of the 21st century.

15 years ago.
 

JDR13

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How can you defend something like this? Re-releasing a game with less content than the previous version on Steam for DOUBLE THE PRICE with a terrible mishmash of old and new audio (with the old audio sounding worse than what you currently hear with DOSbox) and the only thing it has going for it is eight new levels. The new renderer doesn't even look very good.

How does it have less content than the previous Steam version? What exactly did that version include?
 

pippin

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Another factor is the question of whether gamers and mainstream culture are as ignorant as they were 20 years ago. Maybe they still are as ignorant as back then (possibly even more so) but they have the internet now, and that helps them spot those pop culture references much faster than 20 years ago.

Gamers are less ignorant of stuff going on in the industry nowadays, but they choose to remain passive in many situations. And no, I'm not talking about Gamergate.
 

Unkillable Cat

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How can you defend something like this? Re-releasing a game with less content than the previous version on Steam for DOUBLE THE PRICE with a terrible mishmash of old and new audio (with the old audio sounding worse than what you currently hear with DOSbox) and the only thing it has going for it is eight new levels. The new renderer doesn't even look very good.

How does it have less content than the previous Steam version? What exactly did that version include?

Megaton Edition had "Atomic Edition" Duke Nukem 3D with all the "major" expansion packs, even though they were unofficial.

This one only has the "Atomic Edition" Duke Nukem 3D, plus one new episode...with only 8 new levels. (Atomic Edition added an 11-level episode to vanilla Duke Nukem 3D.)
 

Harpsichord

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But keep hating because it's new guys.

Yes.

Not like that the way Shitbox does it is objectively worst and much more retarded. We hate it only because it's new. No other reason. No sir.
But keep hating because it's new guys.
How can you defend something like this? Re-releasing a game with less content than the previous version on Steam for DOUBLE THE PRICE with a terrible mishmash of old and new audio (with the old audio sounding worse than what you currently hear with DOSbox) and the only thing it has going for it is eight new levels. The new renderer doesn't even look very good.
I'm not defending the re-release.

It's just that people do this thing when there's something they don't like where they start grabbing at straws. It's simply not valid to attribute referential humor to Gearbox when the initial product was full of referential humor, and if you are to criticize Gearbox for referential humor, then you're really fooling yourself good in ignoring that the humor in the original product was essentially built on the same premise.
 

Riskbreaker

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One was riffing on 80, early 90s action movies and the related culture, many of whom were already cult material at the time when Duke 3D was released, while BL2 and onwards are referencing so called nerd culture, memes, are full of cringeworthy liburul preaching.
And it will be so with new lines and humor in the new episode, heck first new brand new line we had the chance to hear is coming from fucking Big Bang Theory, whilst trailer is referencing meme factory that are the upcoming US presidential elections.

Oh, and I think that you are perfectly aware of the difference and why is it that folks dislike Gearbox's humor. This post isn't meant for you in any case.
 

tormund

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They are saying that the new references won't live up to those you posted...


Its an expectation that most "Current Year" one liners/memes will feel weak sauce and cringey:
You're just apologizing for him:
Heh, I actually saw people mentioning how Borderlands humor is similar to Duke 3D. :lol:

BTW, you can bet that their new maps will contain :current year: political and meme culture references...

Because the humor is similar, it follows the same format. It's just using a different base. The original game was full of pop culture references relevant to the time. It would seem that "Gearbox's idea of humor" that everyone is making fun of is the same idea of humor that they appreciated about the original Duke3d.

But keep hating because it's new guys.
Nobody needs to apologize in my name or to defend my post, as your ideas about why my post was dumb/wrong/inane are what's actually idiotic. Stuff Duke 3D was referencing is relevant and fitting for its theme and tone, while "Bazinga!" or BL2's idiotic meme overload certainly aren't.

But you at least revealed yourself at the end, because it is obvious that nobody is "hating" on this because one of the slimiest companies around pulled existing port/compilation from sale, so that it can be replaced with twice as expensive one with significantly less content and with tech that was bullied out of one of eDuke devs.
C'mon guys, you're just hatin cuz it is cool to hate on new stuff...
If you were trying to troll, then you failed miserably. If you sincerely think that what you wrote makes you look more reasonable and mature than other posters in this thread, then I really have no words for you...
 

Astral Rag

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is the mouse look good

No way to tell ATM. The now nuked Megaton "remaster" managed to have godawful mouse look though. It's somehow worse than the 1996 pre-bmouse original. The new netcode is utter garbage as well. It's a total lagfest and you can't join games in progress, they didn't even try to add MP to the Shadow Warrior "remaster" :lol: Of course that game also has the same mouse issues.

Best way to play Duke is and will remain EDuke32. Yang + this old EDuke build are great for MP.
 
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GarfunkeL

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They could get away with it 20 years ago...but just barely.

They could get away with it even now. Gaming still isn't mainstream culture. It is a niche hobby now as it was then. Call of Duty and GTA selling 200 billion copies don't count. The gaming industry still isn't Hollywood, and writing for games still isn't a real job.

Wrong.

Oh how fucking wrong you are.

Global box office income for 2013: $35 billion.

2014: $36.4 billion.

2015: $35.9 billion.

Global game market revenue from 2012-2015: Starting at $66 billion and rising.

Are you really gonna try to say that an industry with TWICE the income of the GLOBAL box office (fuck Hollywood at this point) is a niche hobby, and that the sales figures don't count?

Do you even know how Hollywood works?

Another factor is the question of whether gamers and mainstream culture are as ignorant as they were 20 years ago. Maybe they still are as ignorant as back then (possibly even more so) but they have the internet now, and that helps them spot those pop culture references much faster than 20 years ago.

That's the reason for my "just barely" remark, BTW: The internet was becoming Useful as early as 1996. You could look things up and learn something. Metacrawler worked. Sure, back then only the biggest die-hard nerds actually bothered connecting all the dots together to make a "List of Pop Culture References in a Video Game", but that stopped being the case as early as 5 years later, in the first years of the 21st century.

15 years ago.
Lyric Suite being completely wrong about something? :D Stop the press!
 

Lyric Suite

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How much of that is stupid shit like Call of Dooty or Candy Crush?

The fact there's a lot of money going around this shit industry doesn't mean gaymes are seen as a "serious" product by anyone. Companies are autistic when it comes to so called "intellectshual" (lol) property, but games are still being written by amateurs and rejects from other industries, when they aren't written by the devs themselves. Nothing has really changed. The only reason popular media isn't copied more often is that it is fucking shit and there's nothing to copy.
 

sullynathan

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is the mouse look good

No way to tell ATM. The now nuked Megaton "remaster" managed to have godawful mouse look though. It's somehow worse than the 1996 pre-bmouse original. The new netcode is utter garbage as well. It's a total lagfest and you can't join games in progress, they didn't even try to add MP to the Shadow Warrior "remaster" :lol: Of course that game also has the same mouse issues.

Best way to play Duke is and will remain EDuke32. Yang + this old EDuke build are great for MP.
yeah, I played that megaton shit from GOG expecting it to be as good as their DOOM version and it was shitty.
 

pippin

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The Steam version was different, I think he was talking about that one. The Shadow Warrior one was equally or even more broken imo.
 

tormund

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Only good thing about that edition of Shadow Warrior is that it is basically only STABLE way to play the game without dosbox, and with modern resolutions.
Something like SWP runs better, has far better mouse controls, can both look better and also (if you want it) closer to original game. But even with latest existing version, corrupted saves and crashes are regular occurrence. Classic Redux is stable (well stable enough, and expansions can be particularly crashy, but you at least don't have to worry about saves becoming useless) and that is the only thing it has. In every other way it is a super shoddy port.
It is p much abandoned at this point too, despite its glaring issues, and devs forgot their promises about multiplayer and the release of additional, previously unpublished expansion.

I'm now waiting for the next major XL Engine release for my replay, since it will come with full support for Shadow Warrior with all of original game's functionality.
 

Unkillable Cat

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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
How much of that is stupid shit like Call of Dooty or Candy Crush?

Dunno, and for the sake of this argument it doesn't matter either. Hollywood also churns out equally stupid shit as Call of Doody (anything involving Michael Bay and/or Adam Sandler is a good start) and the talentless hacks behind those atrocities rake in the dough while spending all of 3 minutes plotting their next atrocious film.

The fact there's a lot of money going around this shit industry doesn't mean gaymes are seen as a "serious" product by anyone. Companies are autistic when it comes to so called "intellectshual" (lol) property, but games are still being written by amateurs and rejects from other industries, when they aren't written by the devs themselves. Nothing has really changed. The only reason popular media isn't copied more often is that it is fucking shit and there's nothing to copy.

The problem with these words is that they've become equally applicable to cinema, literature and every other major medium out there. Those mediums have long lifespans and great masterpieces, but in all honesty...how long has it been since a book was published that truly deserved the title "timeless classic"? Decades at the very least.

The evolution of cinema can be summed up as this: Pictures move! > Pictures talk! > Pictures stink!

ALL the major mediums have lost their way. They're all choked up with talentless hacks trying to get their piece in. Gaming's only excuse is that it's the youngest medium out there, so it's still got some growing up to do.
 

Astral Rag

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The Steam version was different, I think he was talking about that one. The Shadow Warrior one was equally or even more broken imo.

I have only had the displeasure of playing the Steam versions of these "remasters" but I'm almost certain Gog sold the exact same software minus the Steamwork features.
 
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pippin

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The gog version was the old Duke while the Steam version had the "remaster" and later got the old one added.
 

octavius

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The problem with these words is that they've become equally applicable to cinema, literature and every other major medium out there. Those mediums have long lifespans and great masterpieces, but in all honesty...how long has it been since a book was published that truly deserved the title "timeless classic"? Decades at the very least.

The evolution of cinema can be summed up as this: Pictures move! > Pictures talk! > Pictures stink!

ALL the major mediums have lost their way. They're all choked up with talentless hacks trying to get their piece in. Gaming's only excuse is that it's the youngest medium out there, so it's still got some growing up to do.

One problem is that modern games try to be interactive movies instead of more abstract "gamey" games, and too many movies are made of CGI with actors acting in front of a bluescreen instead of on location or a proper set.
End result for me is that I read more (old) books now that I've done since I was a kid, and I watch mostly older TV series and movies. Very few new games or movies tempt me. But then so much of the old media (magazines, books, TV series, movies) are now available for download or streaming that was not available 10-20 years ago. Hell, I haven't even got a TV anymore (yes, I'm a bad consumer that don't sit like a zombie and watch all those commercials).
 

pippin

Guest
Games as movies is something that I'd say it's fading now, it was more of a thing between 2004 and 2008/12, depending how do you want to consider it. The Order got mocked all around the world, and David Cage is nothing but a clown now. This is due to the relevance of the competitive multplayer market, the e-sports. Games as movies, the "cinematic experiences", is something that's now defended by a few indies and some guys in the mainstream scene, but they know they can't just call a movie a game anymore.

That's my perspective at least.

But we should keep in mind that the urge to make games more artsy and give them a cinematic approach has always been there, although this is common among people who consider the state of their own work (as in complete scene more than what they produce) as something extremely pathetic and want to give said work some relevance (like Will Eisner avoiding the "comic book" name in the 30s and coining the term "graphic novel" to fool publishers into thinking he was selling something more socially acceptable).
 

tormund

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I would't say that it is necessarily fading. The Order bombed, but its main source of inspiration, Uncharted series, is still being adored by the media and other game devs alike.
We might have an abundance of open world games that was kickstarted by AC and relative ease/cheapness and attractiveness (for devs) of such approach to open world design, as well as number of action adventures inspired by Arkham games, growing number of Souls clones etc, but "games as movies", "games as primarily storytelling medium", "gameplay as secondary element" etc is still the default mode for gaming media as far as their vision of medium's future goes, and if anything they are growing more dedicated to it. Their treatment of aforementioned Uncharted, of walking sims, of the likes of Her Story...
 

Wirdschowerdn

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If there's one motive for publishers to veer away from cinematic games it is a) They are too fucking expensive to make and b) Youtube.

What's the point of making a Heavy Rain or Beyond: Two Dykes when something smaller like Life is Strange is much better, cheaper to develop and more memorable?
 
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Journo attempts to give Polygon a run for their money for shitty gameplaying.




In other news heres a breakdown of whats in the new episode.
http://www.gearboxsoftware.com/2016...h-allen-h-blum-iii-and-richard-levelord-gray/

When we announced Duke Nukem 3D: 20th Anniversary Edition World Tour earlier this month, it was revealed that the legendary team of Allen H. Blum III and Richard “Levelord®” Gray got back together to create new maps for this anniversary edition of the classic game. We’re pleased to introduce these maps to you now and give some insight into why we’re calling this game a “world tour”.

In addition to developer commentary and a new True3D rendering tool that allows you to switch between classic Duke Nukem 3D visuals and an updated 3D render on the fly, World Tour brings fans a brand-new episode, Alien World Order, which will send Duke around the globe to iconic locations to save babes and kick alien ass. “Richard ‘Levelord®” Gray came up with the premise of Duke traveling around the world fighting aliens,” said Blum. “So we picked locations that you might expect Duke would want to visit if he went on a vacation.”

But instead of relaxing on a vacation, Duke is on the job stopping a global alien invasion. Using his trademark bravado and an arsenal of weapons worthy of The King, Nukem goes from city to city, blasting aliens in the face and sending what’s left of them back home. Fans of the classic game will be right at home as the new levels fit right in with the rest of good ol’ Duke Nukem 3D, and are also larger than life – just like the real-world locations they represent.

“We took the same approach that we did 20 years ago – making fun maps was our primary goal,” said Gray. “The most important thing specific to the new content was to make the biggest levels ever in a Duke game, and we did! Players will be amazed by how massive some areas are.”

There are eight new maps in the episode:

High Times



“If the aliens are attacking the world’s most famous landmarks, of course Amsterdam would be one of the places Duke would save first,” said Blum. “And while he’s there he would probably check out one of the ‘coffee’ shops. I tried to build the map similar to the first level in Episode 1, Hollywood Holocaust – namely one that’s compact, good for Dukematch, and has a memorable theme. With the improved framerate of the new renderer and processor speeds, I was able to add a lot more detail to the Amsterdam street area compared to the Hollywood street I built in 1996.”

Red Ruckus



“Moscow is my favorite level because I live here now,” said Gray. “For quite a long time, I said things like – ‘Someday I will find a beautiful woman and move to Russia…’ nobody took me seriously! In fact, if you look closely and in the right direction at the skybox, you can see where I live. I planted many personal messages such as the names of stores and restaurants of my family and friends here. I even had the artists replicate my brother-in-law’s storefronts on one street.”

Bloody Hell



“Choosing London was Randy Pitchford’s idea. He thought he could hammer out a Duke Nukem level over the Christmas holiday! I knew it was impossible, but I kept quiet. *Smiles* I’m still snickering now,” says Gray.

“I took Randy’s design plans on paper and made them real. For the record, making just one of these Duke Nukem 3D levels required two months of full time work. Randy said ‘We should have a telephone booth teleporter!’ We do! ‘We should have a toilet teleporter that takes the player to the House of Commons!’ We do! One of my favorite aspects of making this new episode was the lack of framerate issues. Allen and I did push the limits too far sometimes, but making levels originally intended for 486s was a real blast! In London, as in other levels, there are huge areas. These areas are highly detailed and often crawling with multitudes of aliens and even a few minibosses.”

Golden Carnage


“I wanted to build a large, open exploration map that couldn’t be built with the framerate limitations of 1996,” said Blum. “And since I grew up in California, what better landmark then the Golden Gate Bridge? At the end of the original map in Episode 1, Death Row, there is one submarine. In order to have enough framerate to have just one submarine, I had to build it in a small enclosed area. Now in the new map I was able to have six submarines, the destroyed Golden Gate Bridge with cars on it, and Fort Point!”

Mirage Barrage


“What’s a famous landmark that can actually be built in Duke 3D?” asks Blum. “With the limitations of the build engine, one floor plus one ceiling per sector and slopes, what’s a real world place that can actually be built? The Giza Pyramid! The Maze outside of the Pyramid is based off of the real ruins, and the inside of the Pyramid is based off of the actual layout of the Great Pyramid of Khufu. Also note the references to The Fifth Element and Stargate SG-1.”

Tour de Nukem


“Paris is one of my favorite cities,” says Gray. “The city is beautiful, and the people and food are fantastic! Well, they were until the space aliens came to town. The Paris level is not situated in any specific location of the city. There are a few typical back streets with shops and cafes and apartments, these is a metro station, and a huge underground alien headquarters.”

Hollywood Inferno


“As the last map in the new Episode, and bringing the game full circle back to where it started in LA, what better place to fight one final boss than at the base of the Hollywood Sign,” said Blum. “With the improved framerate, I wanted to make a map where you could see the final boss area from the start, and then it’s just a straight path of hard fighting toward the final boss fight. Compared to the original final boss area I built in Episode 3, Stadium, this time I was able to actually have more than a couple of flat sectors.”

Prima Arena


“The Rome level is set in the Colosseum. It is a secret level designed for Dukematch. It is also populated for single-player and co-op modes,” says Gray. “I went to Italy recently and saw the Colosseum. I’m sure I wasn’t the first level designer to think ‘Wow! What a great deathmatch level this would make! Wait! …this IS a deathmatch level!’ I couldn’t get very close to reproducing the Colosseum in detail, but I did get to make a huge deathfest area with few places to hide and lots of exposed weapons and ammo. There is an underground area accessible through teleporter drop holes and water tunnels. One access is made by dropping into a hole that places you in a room (via a teleporter) with a pool of water and then continuing into that water (via another teleporter).”


Gameplay from the first level. Jon still sounds like he's bored.

 

Astral Rag

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Let's Rock Hardcore Gamer
 

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