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samsam

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
28
Location
Creuzalia
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Zdzisiu

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
3,489
ADOM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DCSS
If you are a metagaming autist then maybe.

And Tome has too many damn stunlocking crap at early levels. I still like it, but boy some deaths are cheap there.

DCSS has its own share of problems, and some people dislike the recent changes, that boil down mostly to removal of this and that and also this.
 

Iznaliu

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
3,686
ADOM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DCSS
If you are a metagaming autist then maybe.

And Tome has too many damn stunlocking crap at early levels. I still like it, but boy some deaths are cheap there.

DCSS has its own share of problems, and some people dislike the recent changes, that boil down mostly to removal of this and that and also this.

DCSS's balance makes Sawyer look like a filthy casual.
 

dragonbait

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
Messages
290
Location
Below the ruins of Yulash
Is this what became of Linley's Dungeon Crawl? or something different entirely? I've seen the link to Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup before but I've kept a link to Linley's Dungeon Crawl on my crpg directory anyways. It's unfortunate that Linley's Dungeon Crawl site disabled its robots.txt file as it used to be a usable site with workable downloads, and images and such but is now in shambles as archive.org was not able to capture it. I played it once some ages ago and it was a decent roguelike crawler but I'm not sure whether these are connected today or not. ?
 
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Bio Force Ape

Arcane
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
3,427
It is what became of Linley's. A bunch of folks took it over after Linley gave up on it and it's become one of the great roguelikes. There's a tournament every few months I play in. The competition (just for bragging rights) is pretty motivational. I'm tempted to put a Codex team together for the next tournament one of these days.
 

dragonbait

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
Messages
290
Location
Below the ruins of Yulash
It is what became of Linley's. A bunch of folks took it over after Linley gave up on it and it's become one of the great roguelikes. There's a tournament every few months I play in. The competition (just for bragging rights) is pretty motivational. I'm tempted to put a Codex team together for the next tournament one of these days.
I see. Thanks for confirming this. :D
 

gestalt11

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
629
Yeah DCSS is pretty interesting, I have 15 runed it about 10 times or so. I often don't finish characters though, kind of lose motivation. I 15 runed an unarmed no-transmutations Octopode, I feel like that was a pretty rare run to accomplish. But it was nowhere near as hard as winning TOME4 on madness even with an OP build on adventurrer difficulty.

Hellcrawl is a pretty interesting variant I have won that about 4 times as well, getting rid of food is really nice.
 

TripJack

Hedonist
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
5,132
think the last time i played dcss it was 0.9 or .10, i'm sure it's a completely different game by now :lol:
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
http://colinmorris.github.io/blog/dcss_species

i feel magic has been nerfed in the latest builds and the charts pretty much prove it. recently i was able to get pretty far with a gargoyle mage but mainly/only because gargoyle is fucking OP compared to other races that can be played as mages. also they did things to the mouse interface. sometimes you will cast something like magic arrow several times with no visual/mechanical feedback whatsoever and then suddenly the enemy is dead and several turns have past. it's bugged is what it is. sad thing is, it worked once well but i can't remember which build it was.
 

Reapa

Doom Preacher
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,340
Location
Germany
you may want to look at caves of qud and cogmind while you're at it. caves of qud is a "scifi" postapocaliptic open world story roguelike with guns and laser guns and mutations (physical and "magical") with both tiles and ascii graphics and mouse support. cogmind is a scifi story based dungeoncrawler roguelike with robots (you are a robot killing other robots and taking their components to improve yourself). both are obviously turn based and while in early access they do offer plenty to explore and are very detailed.
 

Keye_

Educated
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
78
Awesome dungeon crawling gem, hard as shit with complex character creation system and lots of combat/magic subtleties. Haven't got past the 7 level yet - just one time with a warrior want that kept digging shafts below, on and on until on level 15 when some badass monster killed me with one blow.
It has graphics too, text based controls (classic Vim navigation), save feature. It's pretty addicting once you give it a shot.
You gotta create an user though (fake email works) and I recommend you follow the tutorial.
https://crawl.develz.org/

Would make for a great Let's Play session.

Yeah, it's good.
I played it for the first time a year ago, but didn't really play much at all.
Couple of weeks ago I started playing again, a bit more invested this time. Set my mind to beating it at least once and got my first 3 rune clear (MiBe) a couple days later.
I haven't played much recently after that, since I've been discovering many other roguelikes and rogue-lites. But one day I'll go for a 15-rune clear.

Also, if you don't want to register an account, you can just play offline.
Crawl community on the Freenote webchat is also very helpful. If you have any questions that the wiki doesn't help you with, it's a good idea to ask there.

ToME > all
I'm getting into ToME at the moment. So far, I wouldn't say it's better, just a very different focus. ToME seems more focused on character building and planning in advance. While I feel that in DCSS the items you find play a much bigger role in defining your playstyle, you have to adapt more to what you discover.

Yeah DCSS is pretty interesting, I have 15 runed it about 10 times or so. I often don't finish characters though, kind of lose motivation. I 15 runed an unarmed no-transmutations Octopode, I feel like that was a pretty rare run to accomplish.

That's pretty impressive. How would you describe the difference between Crawl and ToME? Is one better than the other according to you?
 
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gestalt11

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
629
Yeah DCSS is pretty interesting, I have 15 tuned it about 10 times or so. I often don't finish characters though, kind of lose motivation. I 15 runed an unarmed no-transmutations Octopode, I feel like that was a pretty rare run to accomplish. But it was nowhere near as hard as winning TOME4 on madness even with an OP build on adventurrer difficulty.
Awesome dungeon crawling gem, hard as shit with complex character creation system and lots of combat/magic subtleties. Haven't got past the 7 level yet - just one time with a warrior want that kept digging shafts below, on and on until on level 15 when some badass monster killed me with one blow.
It has graphics too, text based controls (classic Vim navigation), save feature. It's pretty addicting once you give it a shot.
You gotta create an user though (fake email works) and I recommend you follow the tutorial.
https://crawl.develz.org/

Would make for a great Let's Play session.

Yeah, it's good.
I played it for the first time a year ago, but didn't really play much at all.
Couple of weeks ago I started playing again, a bit more invested this time. Set my mind to beating it at least once and got my first 3 rune clear (MiBe) a couple days later.
I haven't played much recently after that, since I've been discovering many other roguelikes and rogue-lites. But one day I'll go for a 15-rune clear.

Also, if you don't want to register an account, you can just play offline.
Crawl community on the Freenote webchat is also very helpful. If you have any questions that the wiki doesn't help you with, it's a good idea to ask there.

ToME > all
I'm getting into ToME at the moment. So far, I wouldn't say it's better, just a very different focus. ToME seems more focused on character building and planning in advance. While I feel that in DCSS the items you find play a much bigger role in defining your playstyle, you have to adapt more to what you discover.

Yeah DCSS is pretty interesting, I have 15 runed it about 10 times or so. I often don't finish characters though, kind of lose motivation. I 15 runed an unarmed no-transmutations Octopode, I feel like that was a pretty rare run to accomplish.

That's pretty impressive. How would you describe the difference between Crawl and ToME? Is one better than the other according to you?

I agree with your characterization that the comparison of "better" or "worse" is essentially meaningless. First off TOME4 is class base, DCSS is not. Secondly TOME4 has different difficulties and Insane chagnes the game radically. But most importantly DCSS is FAR more emergent than TOME4. In TOME4 is is clearly optimal to pre-plan a build and even a route. DCSS does not truly realize its ideal of you just picking stuff up and molding your character to whatever is generated, for example typically people just pick something like Axe and stick to it even if they find a decent weapon of some other skill and only switch if they, in certain extremely rare case, find an amazing randart. But even so you simply cannot make pre-planned build in DCSS except in the case of choosing certain gods. Also the loot in TOME4 is radically different and much more like a Diablo2 style game.

Overall I would say DCSS has more replayability and emergent stuff while TOME4 is longer, more predictable and has more elaborate character building. Also DCSS is more "fair" IMO. TOME4 can sometimes throw some real bullshit at you. Now there are ways to deal with the TOME4 bullshit or no one would ever win Madness, but they are gamey and kind of boring and silly. I wouldn't say one is more tactical than the other but the tactical situations of DCSS are tighter and more fair. TOME4 can "one shot" if you run into the wrong rare/boss with the wrong skillset where its very fast and it slows you and hits hard and like nukes you 3 times after you turn a corner and you are dead and have no idea what just happened, DCSS never really has stuff quite like this. Again TOME4 can give you stuff like telepathy and lets you see all the skills/level something have, but autoexplore in TOME4 can literally get you one shotted especially in Insane.

One practical thing about DCSS vs TOME4 is that typically DCSS get much easier in the later levels whereas TOME4 on Insane is more chalenging at higher power levels (although the beginning is still harder). Most "unfair" things in DCSS are early on like a corner one shot by an early ogre or a gnoll with halberd on dungeon 1.

For the most part you can play DCSS over and over, but after a while playing TOME4 is pretty samey once you have done a few classes on normal and Insane difficulty. Either one is considerably better than most modern "mainstream" games as far as replayability.

I don't reccomend playing TOME4 on madness unless you are crazy. The only reason I did it was that I had an extremely overpowered Adventurer build I wanted to try http://forums.te4.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=42998. However Insane is, IMO, a very interesting change in the game once you know how to make powerful builds because it adds many many rares into the zones and rares have random player classes making combat radically more varied and dangerous.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
1,350
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DCSS is great if you don't like having to metagame. A lot of shit about DCSS is random (like ability increases and shit) so you're not really ever going to level the same type of character the same way each time.

ADOM is great if you like metagaming.

ToME is probably the best out of both of 'em.
 

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,513
Location
Tuono-Tabr
Mmh... I would love ToME with tiles from ADOM, those look so much better/bigger/crispier!
 

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