DX:HR - Worth a replay?

Click here and disable ads!

Its tacky and arcade though. I don't demand 100% realism but its the same as people having giant yellow exclamation marks on top of their heads.

I'd change the system a bit:

First, I would connect all terminals in at least part of the building in a single subnet rather than having separate network for every terminal, so with good skills you'd be able to crawl around the building accessing data and various systems without physically moving from your original access spot.

Second, I would vary, or rather remove defined goals - instead of having registry nodes that would make the network 'hacked', there would be simply other terminals with data on them, dedicated datastores (data not located on physically accessible terminal) and API nodes corresponding to physical stuff like power sub-grids or individual door keypads - so you could open the locks, deactivate lasers, or switch off power to stuff like lights, elevators, some parts of the network (like security server if you knew which part of the grid supplied it, or some routers to temporarily cut the trace off).

Third, I would make skill/aug level affect hackability of individual nodes (and maybe probability of detection during hack).

Fourth, I would make you able to bypass hacking of entry point if know the password. Moreover, the more privileged the account you'd be using the more stuff you could do the easy way in the network, being able to do a lot with subordinate systems without alerting the automated security (wetware guards would obviously get suspicious if you started fiddling with environmental stuff regardless of your privileges) and only having to hack it hard way upwards. Hunting passwords would suddenly become very important even for the 31337 d00d.

Fifth, I would vary the security measures.


Sixth, I would move from resource based mechanics to a tool based one, including stuff like employing decoys or putting a backdoor on a different terminal you don't know password for, disconnecting to evade trace, then physically moving to the machine with backdoor to start again from a non-compromised access point.

Still, overall it would be a very similar "click the nodes" minigame, and even the original is simply the best hacking minigame in similar game, if only because it actually tries to depict network as network rather than "connect 3" (SS2) or pipe-game.
DX1 progress bar also wasn't very inspired and got in the way of reading.

I'd rather just tweak the cost of different abilities based on power.
Abilities with very short trees (like typhoon) can be very powerful, but cost very little in current skill mechanics.

This would eat excess praxis points as a side effect as most abilities cost 1, tree-rots 2 in current system.

Yeah, even a hackable turret/bot, some architecture usable by mobility-augmented individuals or breakable walls would really help those fights even in their current shitty form.

I'd settle for "don't derp the end".

I'd settle for real time takedowns and typhoon, as well as noisier non-lethal beatings to make player actually think before using those abilities (because he would be gunned down if there were multiple enemies around in a position to shoot him).

Would reduce takedown energy cost in exchange, because in a perfect world punching someone in the face should not take a full candy bar.

Stalker. Trying to use stealth there is an exercise in futility unless you give whatever you're trying to hide from a wide berth.

Yes, I'm trolling when I say I believe you even though I never saw it for myself. For what insidious reason I don't know.

Not in my playthrough of DX:HR. Has anyone here rescued Ford (Smuggler's friend) in DX1 while ghosting?

I actually really enjoyed stealth in Stalker (SoC at least). It was unforgivingly hard and devoid of retard friendly delays where an enemy seeing you clearly would wait before considering that what he is seeing is actually you, not some harmless doppelganger with airsoft replicas of deadly military gear.

Ghosting Agroprom mission and then later that Cordon sidequest where you infiltrated military base was really fucking hard and really fucking satisfying, shame there was little gameplay incentive to actually play it stealthily rather than gunning everyone down.

That actually occurs, but isn't very noticeable, not sure if it doesn't just boil to model not sticking out that much when in cover - you can definitely be noticed while in cover if the enemy has clear sight of you.

The most cheatish part of cover system is simply that it allows remote perception, also, Deus Ex didn't play by the rules either - see derpy AI delays and other AI nerfs.

Is ghosting even applicable here?

The level doesn't really have alternate paths and you need to escort a civvie out. Hardly ghostable unless popping everyone before anyone notices counts as ghosting.

Yet, the very same traits that can be ascribed to MJ12 lab in the sewers would be a crushing criticism when levelled at DX:HR, nevermind that most HR levels are much less linear environments than this particular DX1 level.

According to DX:HR, popping everyone before anyone notices indeed counts as ghosting. I managed to complete that quest without killing anyone directly (I used the barrels leaking gas). I haven't tried it yet, but I'm sure that I can find enough crates to 'pure' ghost the area and rescue Ford.

And that illustrates one of the reasons DX:HR was a dull experience for me: the level design is quite plainly tailored around specific playstyles--ghosting, rambo, hacker, etc. DX:HR never inspired me to creativity as DX1 did; it was always all laid out for me, even without the item highlighting.


Edit: People who claim that the stealth in DX:HR is superior because it allows pure ghosting should be prepared to explain how that game's stealth is better than that of Thief 2. Thief 2 (and Thief on the highest difficulty setting) doesn't support ghosting either.

You are saying that stealth path is not viable in Stalker because of *random* enemy movement? Be real.

Insisting that sticky cover is not exploitable is trolling.

You are in the wrong place. Let me guess what will happen (based on the last 3 pages of this thread):
1) TwinkieGorilla will insult you, because DX:HR was "almost there", "nearly as good" or some other bullshit. Lack of arguments will not stop him. NO sir!
2) Roguey seems to be in denial or just trolling. Obvious is not obvious, because honest to God - he "Never noticed this behavior".
3) Draq will talk about fighting the good fight through the game. Even if the subject is stealth.
4) Infinitron will brofist anything praising DX:HR. Just a reflex.
5) sea is the most intelligent poster, but hey! He is not pro-DX:HR. So no brofist from DX:HR camp. Sucker.
6) curry just wants to be edgy and score codex points. He has no opinion on topic what-so-ever.
7) circ, kaol are saying the same things as you. It went spectacular.

Conclusion: If this discussion is not dead yet, you will end up discussing semantics.

Happy?

revenge brofist

Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a MASSIVE decline.

I consider Fallout 3 / Fallout NV / Skyrim to be closer to deus ex sequels in terms of gameplay.

Well, while I have not played the game - is it really about how exactly the cover works in the end? Sure, the part about seeing what the characters eyes can't see is a big deal.
But in the end I'd imagine it mostly boils down to level design - if the designers made the layout with the players ability to get everywhere unseen if they so wish, you WILL get around unseen no matter exactly what kind of environment they used to achieve that.

And no matter what it's not an exploit, I'm pretty sure the people behind the game were aware of the way cover works in the final game. It's, like, a feature.

No mention of the job listing that pretty much confirms a new game with the "Deus Ex" for the next generation of consoles and, by not asking for PC devs, will be another outsourced port with strafe running?

Which is still incline over modern AAA RPGs.

It also usually involves skulking behind objects rather than running down a corridor and popping NPCs before they manage to get their brain working.

That's what they're for, no?

Well, covertly erecting conspicuous crate barricades is rather meta as far as stealth goes.
Same as - it exploits weaknesses of AI programming (inability to get alerted by weird changes in environment or inability to shake vision impairing object off your head).

My only problem with DX:HR levels was lack of wide open ones with contiguous outdoor zone surrounding indoor environments, allowing for much creativity in terms of approach (see cathedral in Paris, or even Liberty Island).

There were hubs, of course, but I'm talking of levels with hostile presence to tackle.

Yes. I wish someone had told Eidos Montreal. But your contention was that it was harder to ghost DX:HR than DX1. It seems you disregarded the quests in DX1 that would actually have been more difficult to ghost.

I carefully positioned the barrels at doors and choke points to trap the soldiers while slowly killing them without setting off an alarm. After the last trooper had succumbed, I destroyed the barrels to disperse the gas so Ford wouldn't be harmed when he made a run for it. That involved a tad more creativity than shooting the barrels and flooding the entire area with gas.

For the most part, DX:HR the gameplay is standardized to specific playstyles, as opposed to DX1, which supports them without bending over backwards to accommodate them. The economy of level design--in that it's all tailored to specific approaches--contrasts with the expansiveness of DX1, where even the hacking was less standardized and more contextual (shut down bot! release the karkians! destroy the hull!). When I explore a level in DX1, it's often for that reason alone--to explore. In DX:HR, 'exploration' is mostly just the natural consequence of using the ghost approach that the level designers had laid out for you (traveller bonus!). And ghosting should be an actual challenge for stealth players, not a playstyle on par with the others. In DX:HR, I found it the easiest. Press spacebar to ghost.

And then there were boss fights and a zombie level and FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!, but we've covered that already.

In Thief's 'Return to the Haunted Cathedral' on Expert, you have to get rid of all the haunts in the level. It's possible to do that without killing them yourself: pick up one of two hammers in the level, toss at haunt, repeat until haunt is dead. That sounds pretty 'meta as far as stealth goes', but as far as I know it's the only way to complete the level on that difficulty setting without any kills whatsoever. Does any of that make Thief's stealth inferior to that of DX:HR?

Edit: I don't recall the enemies in DX:HR noticing that large crates had popped into existence when their backs were turned. Not really sure what that proves.

let me in on the forum controversy

dxhr's score is totally better than the original's, of which only the hong kong theme stands out

come on Surf Solar am i rite I know you be lovin Icarus something fierce

Another example from my last playthrough:

He comes upon an MiB seated at a terminal, with a delicious augmentation canister in clear view. And JC doesn't have enough multitools either. There's no way he can get the canister without being seen or attacking anyone. 'Is ghosting even applicable here?'

JC tosses a combat knife inside the vent as a distraction. The MiB gets up from his chair and runs towards what he thinks is the source. An alarmed enemy who was seated usually returns to the the chair, so JC does the only logical thing: he destroys it.* This does not lead to an alarm, presumably because the MiB is too embarrassed to report the loss of furniture from under his very butt, or attributes it to the work of transgenic termites. At any rate, this allows JC to hack the terminal and also ensures that there's no longer a line-of-sight between MiB and canister. And thus the canister is liberated, and no one's the wiser. \o/

*Not a mandatory step, but this way it's easier to hack the terminal without being interrupted.

In just about every DX:HR thread it was repeated over and over that you do not need to use cover at all. You should try it.

I'm genuinely curious--why would you tolerate the cover-based mechanics in the Mass Effect series and not in DX:HR? And SoupNazi is correct, it's possible to play the game without cover, though combat becomes much more difficult.

Pretty much this, only I didn't pay anything for it and I actually completed the game.

But I nearly gave up on my first attempt because of the terribad cover system and terribad gun fighting. On my second attempt, I went stealth and it was much better than shooting stuff. Until I got to the bosses and realized all my accumulated stealth skills were absolutely useless and I could literally die in like one hit.

The game is good, but not worth replaying due to its piss poor combat system and lack of multiple approaches to boss fights.