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1eyedking DX:HR's Lead Designer talks about level design philosophy

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Sadly, the police mission is probably the best one in the game, featuring multiple routes of entry and a very open level design without the usual stealth path, combat path, hacker path nonsense the game often devolves into.
Can you progress in the game if you happen to shoot your way through the police station? I'm guessing yes since they wouldn't allow people to 'break' the game because modern players would go 'muh freeedomz.'

Yeah, obviously you can, but I don't remember how they justify it. It kinda makese sense in universe, given that it's all about corporate strength so you're probably beyond the reach of the law even if they have a video of you doing it.
It really should have lead to them calling in some strike force of hard to kill enemies though. But HR wasted so many opportunities in general.
 

Carrion

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Yeah, the police station is the best area in the game.
Another highlight is the Singapore facility, which consists of an (unfortunately fairly small) outdoor area and a number of different buildings and objectives, and which also doesn't have an obvious "stealth path". Liberty Island or Vandenberg it is not, but it's the closest HR gets to those kind of levels. There are also some nice little locations in the hubs, but it's certainly a bit disappointing that there aren't more levels like that since it's obvious that there were people on the team who really knew what they were doing.

Well what kind of obstacles would you expect from a ventilation system?
Well, for one they should be harder to navigate. They wanted to make the stealthy route involve some exploration, but looking behind a cardboard box to find out a vent that conveniently takes you past half-a-dozen guards patrolling the hallway and suddenly ends in the very next room doesn't really fit my description of it. I also feel that the ventilation systems should be a means to a solution rather than the solution itself. Deus Ex also had ventilation shafts, but rather than allowing you to just waltz through secret facilities protected by super-advanced security systems like you were invisible, they were usually more useful for scouting ahead or gaining a tactical advantage, like being able to throw a gas grenade into a room full of enemies or fire a tranquillzer dart at someone before retreating to a safe location. They rarely allowed you to just skip combat entirely.
 
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Carrion

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Counterpoint: no it certainly is not.
It's not the best level in the game, and it's definitely not the most interesting location there is, but the worst level in the game? A wide open area with multiple buildings, all of which are accessible, numerous characters to talk to and a ton of variety ranging from small cramped rooms to flooded underground tunnels and a huge courtyard full of military bots patrolling it. The possibility to snipe enemies from the other side of the map. A number of different ways to achieve your objectives, like destroying or disabling the patrol bots by yourself or by releasing friendly bots to do the job for you instead. Some interesting possible stealth routes that go beyond climbing into a vent. Basically you can approach the level from any angle you want, starting from the top of the building or climbing down to the ground level and doing everything backwards.

The fact that someone would actually consider it the worst level in the game really just shows how damn good the level design in Deus Ex is, which only makes Human Revolution seem worse in comparison.
 

Siobhan

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Wasn't Vandenberg also the level where you could accidentally jump over a fence and run to the edge of the map? I also feel like there were items and weapon upgrades out there, even though you couldn't get back into the level. Might be misremembering things though (I definitely remember being out there, but maybe I used cheats, or there was a way back).

My least favorite level is the Ocean Lab, too linear, not much to do overall, and the "scary" atmosphere doesn't work at all. But I guess I'm pretty alone on this since most people love SS2, which the Ocean Lab pays hommage to.

Quite generally the later levels in DX seem to be liked less, probably because burn out is starting to set in. At least that's the reason why I like to take an extended break after Hong Kong.
 

Ninjerk

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The game "quickens" after Paris, really. The only new character introduced is the cameo of that guy in the nuke silo (I believe he was mentioned in emails earlier in the game) and most of the mystery is worn off by then.
 
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CyberP

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Yeah the hubs were definitely the highlight of the game in general. The saving grace, even.
 

Carrion

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The city hubs were good, but god, those cyberpunk influences are just terrible for the most part, and it also shows in the game. Considering that it is supposedly a prequel to Deus Ex everything's just a bit too clean and polished, it's too futuristic in parts (like The Pangu), and augmented people look like supermodels and move with the grace of a cat when they should be more like uglier, clumsier, less functional versions of Gunther Hermann. That's one of the reasons why it's very hard to think of Human Revolution as a Deus Ex game, regardless of what the gameplay is like. It's not terrible or anything by any means, and on its own it's still a well-made setting, but there's definitely a more of a "post-2000 Hollywood cyberpunk" feel to it than Blade Runner or Robocop (save for the fact that Jensen basically is Robocop), with some scenes that can only have been influenced by some fucking terrible anime out there, like the girl-powered end boss machine.
 
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CyberP

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with some scenes that can only have been influenced by some fucking terrible anime out there

GiTS & Appleseed are alright, though yes, the settings/respective metropolises these anime are set in are no good influence. If you're going to look to anime for inspiration for a Deus Ex game, Akira or GTFO. Their cyberpunk inspirations are a little underwhelming overall, as are their inspirational hub listings (vtm:b/darkness). VtM:B's hubs are shitty from a gameplay standpoint, they one upped it there.
 
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jcd

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Bubbles In Memoria
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Carrion

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Yeah, jcd has a valid point, but a lot of Jensen's technology does feel more advanced than what you see in Deus Ex. Even JC Denton needs the help of a robot in installing his augs that are contained in big, cumbersome canisters, but Jensen has convenient Praxis kits that probably fit in his pocket and can be used anywhere (and yeah, I know that all of his augs are already installed unlike JC 's augs in DX, and he only needs Praxis to activate them).

It's of course hard to determine whether someone like Gunther is more effective than Jensen, especially since Human Revolution's mechanics are too inconsistent to be directly compared to DX (Jensen can only take a few bullets whereas the bosses you fight can take more damage than anything in DX, for instance), but surely Gunther would be much more effective if he had Jensen's agility, those armblades, free health regeneration or Typhoon among other things.
 
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bloodlover

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The city hubs were good, but god, those cyberpunk influences are just terrible for the most part, and it also shows in the game. Considering that it is supposedly a prequel to Deus Ex everything's just a bit too clean and polished, it's too futuristic in parts (like The Pangu), and augmented people look like supermodels and move with the grace of a cat when they should be more like uglier, clumsier, less functional versions of Gunther Hermann. That's one of the reasons why it's very hard to think of Human Revolution as a Deus Ex game, regardless of what the gameplay is like. It's not terrible or anything by any means, and on its own it's still a well-made setting, but there's definitely a more of a "post-2000 Hollywood cyberpunk" feel to it than Blade Runner or Robocop (save for the fact that Jensen basically is Robocop), with some scenes that can only have been influenced by some fucking terrible anime out there, like the girl-powered end boss machine.

I agree but keep in mind the fact that most of the action takes place in civilised areas where the population is made of average or above citizens. They could have given the game some areas where the less fortunate live, the ones that can't affor legal quality augs so they have to settle for black market stuff, made by your local dealer. These could have been less advanced of course, more mechanical but it could have shown a difference in social classes and society. Kind of like rich people have GiTS augs and poor peope have Tetsuo the Iron Man augs. In the 1995 GiTS movie this is shown quite early in the show.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Jensen being able to wear a trenchcoat goes directly against mechs in the original. afaik, it is directly mentioned they are unable to do so(or clothes to cover their augmentations in general) because they get stuck/torn in the servos. If mechs could blend in as well as Jensen does, MJ12 would have never made the MiB we see in Deus Ex.

The game fails in a lot of way to be a reasonable prequel to Deus Ex.
 

ZagorTeNej

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The biggest problem I see is that Jensen is arguably more powerful than JC

Nah, specced with combat augs JC is a walking juggernaut of destruction that can't be killed unless he runs out of bio energy (even on Realistic). Jensen has typhoon and can get himself immune to poison and EMP damage but other than that, JC has better ballistic aug, can remotely detonate enemies explosives/rockets (in-game even stuff like crossbow bolts and plasma but I don't know if that's a bug or works as intended), can spend more time cloaked, has ridiculously overpowered regeneration (Jensen's is quite pathetic in comparison), has a speed aug (that also gives super jump and no fall damage which Jensen has with different augs), has a targeting aug (that increases accuracy and even damage dealt by projectile weapons) etc.

and looks more human...

Not sure he looks more human than JC but he certainly looks much more human than Gunther and Navarre which is a problem considering everything. Overall, augmented people should have had a much more machine like/freak appearance in HR than they do, in that regard it does feel like a sequel instead of a prequel.
 
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J1M

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14,616
The fact that the Ubisoft Eidos team researched the original game and tried to pick apart why it was enjoyable shows. Was what they made perfect? Of course not, but it is why DX:HR was such a clear choice for 2011 Game of the Year.

The fact that they are talking about that research again suggests that they haven't become too full of themselves to keep improving their process.

The biggest thing holding back DX:HR was the level size. I would love to see what their team could do with the shackles of console hardware removed.
 
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Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Eidos Montreal, not Ubisoft
 

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