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Europa Universalis IV

darkpatriot

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Will require Steam.

So much for Paradox Interactive's anti-DRM stance.

Paradox was the one company I thought I could count on not to do this shit.
 

KazikluBey

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Yeah, pretty much. The latest dev diary details some rather nifty-ish improvements to the multiplayer tech compared to previous games which I think is connected to their use of Steamworks, but I hardly played EU3 online, and never any of their other games, so meh.
 

oscar

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I imagine they would use the trade post system from CKII as it represents quite well "make a quick buck from trading in exotic goods" type mercantile colonialism vs longer-term Anglo/French type colonisation.
 

Arkadin

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Things that EUIV needs:

1. A better colonial system. The current one as it is just bogus: Bunch of guys migrate, colonize, when they reach 1000 all the natives magically see the superiority of their colonizers and convert to their culture and religion. Positively Derptastic. They need a system that does the following:

a). Missionary efforts to convert local injuns (especially Jesuits). They were quite important and involved many people, natives and missionaries.

b). Interactions between locals and colonists in fun and interesting ways.

c). Small outposts that exist only for trade IE bring back trade posts from EUII. One addendum I would make here is that a trade post should't control a province, rather, they should work somehow like the trade posts in CKII's republics. A cool idea would be to also allow foreign trade posts inside other nations' colonies, to represent smuggling. This would also be a awesome way to represent the trade between african slave seller nations and european/arab/ottoman slave buyer nations. Portugal should't have to pay lots of jewgold and build a city só they can get themselves some niggers to work on the sugarcane plantations. Lastly, European (and perhaps Chinese?) powers should also be able to build trade posts in India and use them as bases for the kind of european-indian fighting that was going on.

d). The undeclared war going on between colonial powers. There was a lot of undeclared fighting going on the entire American continent, especially early on when estabilished colonies were but a few, nobody recognized and respected each other's claims (even the Spanish and the Portuguese ignored Tordesillas often) and the metropolei didn't know half of what was really going on in the continent.

e) A colonial system that represents all colonial types – Extractivist colonies, settler colonies, military outposts, trader colonies, etc.

f) Represents properly the conflicts going on between colonials and the natives. Doing deals with friendly tribes and raising native auxiliary armies, fighting local encroaching natives, proper consequences of native genocide, possibility of natives fighting back, etc.
I love your ideas about the colonization. It's interesting to see how colonizing each region of the New World, as an example, posed it's own problems, but none of this comes up in the game. These are some of the fun situations in history. There needs to be more that hangs on getting the locals to adopt your culture and religion if you don't have adequate military forces in the region to actually keep order. We see in New Mexico how the tiny proportion of Spaniards living in the region in the 16th and 17th century, combined with the way the Franciscan missionaries and local governors were at odds with each other, led to the Pueblo tribes essentially refusing to believe the Spanish had any real spiritual, cultural, or political authority, and leading up to the full rebellion in 1680.
 

Sranchammer

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g) Proper despiction of slave trade in all parts of Africa. I like the idea of playing a African ruler and getting blood money by attacking and raiding my neighboors and selling them to euro/arab slave traders; or plaaying a european colonizer player and buying slaves from africa and getting escaped slaves running to the wilderness, quilombo-style or even large slave revolts.

I smell a new mod!
 

Jarpie

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as many as possible of the historical events should be decisions so players could decide to follow historic route or not. Does EUIV still have core and non-core provinces like EU3 has?
 

oscar

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Finance ought to be a lot harder. Wars frequently bankrupted even wealthy states like France and England (with France's huge debt setting in chain the French revolution). Monarchs struggled immensely to centralise and get enough revenue to cover peacetime expenses alone, with changes in taxes leading to massive instability (English Civil War). Yet in EUIII you only run out of money as a one province Irish minor or some equivalent peripheral state.
 

Jarpie

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Finance ought to be a lot harder. Wars frequently bankrupted even wealthy states like France and England (with France's huge debt setting in chain the French revolution). Monarchs struggled immensely to centralise and get enough revenue to cover peacetime expenses alone, with changes in taxes leading to massive instability (English Civil War). Yet in EUIII you only run out of money as a one province Irish minor or some equivalent peripheral state.

I remember France being very problematic in EU3, usually they ate the whole europe and occasionally it fell into half-dozen countries, they need to get the balance better for Eu4 where the small nations aren't so easily rolled over and add mechanics that having a bit smaller country instead of map painting is viable choice.
 

Space Satan

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Finance ought to be a lot harder. Wars frequently bankrupted even wealthy states like France and England (with France's huge debt setting in chain the French revolution). Monarchs struggled immensely to centralise and get enough revenue to cover peacetime expenses alone, with changes in taxes leading to massive instability (English Civil War). Yet in EUIII you only run out of money as a one province Irish minor or some equivalent peripheral state.
Devs said that gold is much more more important than in EU3 and after several test parties with France they often go into bankrupcy when war erupted.
 
Unwanted

Cursed Platypus

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Map is still boring as fuck. A small flat sheet with a few bumps and three texture. I look forward to the day when these games will have some production value and beautfiul, vast and detailed maps like Kinght of Honor or the Total War. Impossible to do with their current 1000$ budget.
 

Luzur

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they should just merge CK, EU and Total War into one game and fix the bugs.

i would be set up for life.
 
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they should just merge CK, EU and Total War into one game and fix the bugs.

i would be set up for life.

I would like to see a game with a mix of EU and CK, I heard EU: Rome is like this (could't get it to playing it yet, fucking mods).
I could see it as beginning CK and turning into EU - early game is like a end-game of CK, big, centralized realsm, you get to centralizing and then turn the nobles and burghers into your bitches, then go conquer, colonize and marry within dinasties - but it would always have that CK element.
 
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1. A better colonial system. The current one as it is just bogus: Bunch of guys migrate, colonize, when they reach 1000 all the natives magically see the superiority of their colonizers and convert to their culture and religion. Positively Derptastic. They need a system that does the following:

3. Religious/Cultural Minority systems. Things were even more messy in that period than today – Lots of odd and weird religious/cultural minorities in weird places and times. I want to see Jews as far as Ethiopia and China, Zoroastrians in Persia and India, Muslim traders slowly infiltrating Indonesia, Nestorians and Syriacs in Central Asia and India, Hussites in Bohemia, Valdensians in Italy, etc. Oh yes, they need to stop being faggots and add Jews FFS.



Hardly any of the changes you'd like to see could be accomplished without switching to a more sophisticated population system than the homogenized province populations of the EU system. Paradox already has a system which could do these things much better than EU ever could: Victoria's POP's. Colonization, slave trading, minorities; you could easily do all this stuff if Paradox hadn't abandoned POP's for some idiotic reason, but had improved on that brilliant premise. You'd especially need to get rid of the idiotic assimilation system (which was still much better than that of EU of course), and make it model intermarriage instead: natives don't magically become Spaniards, but a growing section of both becomes mestizo. Assimilation can become religious instead, giving clergy something else to do other than arbitrarily raising morale.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Hardly any of the changes you'd like to see could be accomplished without switching to a more sophisticated population system than the homogenized province populations of the EU system. Paradox already has a system which could do these things much better than EU ever could: Victoria's POP's. Colonization, slave trading, minorities; you could easily do all this stuff if Paradox hadn't abandoned POP's for some idiotic reason, but had improved on that brilliant premise. You'd especially need to get rid of the idiotic assimilation system (which was still much better than that of EU of course), and make it model intermarriage instead: natives don't magically become Spaniards, but a growing section of both becomes mestizo. Assimilation can become religious instead, giving clergy something else to do other than arbitrarily raising morale.
Paradox hasn't "abandoned" the pop system. It's simply not part of the EU gameplay model, which is essentially the baseline game that other Paradox games build on top of, it's supposed to be more simple and accessible (and some might say... Streamlined). Baby's First Paradox Grand Strategy Game and all that. Pops are Victoria's thing.

Also, Vicky DOES have religious assimilation as well, it's just harder to see because converted pops assimilate faster, so you won't notice it easily outside of multi-ethnic core empires where assimilation does not happen (but if I've understood correctly, core pops are also highly resistant to conversion, and Jews almost never convert).

And yes, I had a major nerdgasm with the first trailer for East vs West because it seemed to combine Victoria and Hearts of Iron. Vicky mechanics + HoI mechanics = OH GAWD ITZ HEAVANZ
 
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Paradox hasn't "abandoned" the pop system. It's simply not part of the EU gameplay model, which is essentially the baseline game that other Paradox games build on top of, it's supposed to be more simple and accessible (and some might say... Streamlined). Baby's First Paradox Grand Strategy Game and all that. Pops are Victoria's thing.

I know, but for some weird reason I was convinced they'd nixed pops for Vicky 2.

Also, Vicky DOES have religious assimilation as well, it's just harder to see because converted pops assimilate faster, so you won't notice it easily outside of multi-ethnic core empires where assimilation does not happen (but if I've understood correctly, core pops are also highly resistant to conversion, and Jews almost never convert).

No it doesn't, at least not in any meaningful way. When a pop fits all the requirements for assimilation (decided by social policies, size, pop type, religion, etc.) it gets assimilated into one of the dominant culture pops, regardless of religion (so if your state religion is protestant, and all the clergy in the province is protestant, it still won't matter if the only dominant culture laborer pop in the province is catholic: he'll become catholic). Jews generally not converting has to do with them being either high class/different religion in Western Europe, or large size/different religion in Eastern Europe; they'll assimilate just fine once they migrate.

That is, unless you're talking about Vicky 2, because then I wouldn't know (might be the reason why I've no idea what a "core pop" is).

EDIT: ah, just saw that they have religious conversion in Vicky 2, nice. Makes porting EU to it even easier B).

EDIT: christ, the new features in Vicky 2 look damn nice; I shouldn't have kept my 2d-fundamentalism from trying out.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Paradox hasn't "abandoned" the pop system. It's simply not part of the EU gameplay model, which is essentially the baseline game that other Paradox games build on top of, it's supposed to be more simple and accessible (and some might say... Streamlined). Baby's First Paradox Grand Strategy Game and all that. Pops are Victoria's thing.

I know, but for some weird reason I was convinced they'd nixed pops for Vicky 2.

Also, Vicky DOES have religious assimilation as well, it's just harder to see because converted pops assimilate faster, so you won't notice it easily outside of multi-ethnic core empires where assimilation does not happen (but if I've understood correctly, core pops are also highly resistant to conversion, and Jews almost never convert).

No it doesn't, at least not in any meaningful way. When a pop fits all the requirements for assimilation (decided by social policies, size, pop type, religion, etc.) it gets assimilated into one of the dominant culture pops, regardless of religion (so if your state religion is protestant, and all the clergy in the province is protestant, it still won't matter if the only dominant culture laborer pop in the province is catholic: he'll become catholic). Jews generally not converting has to do with them being either high class/different religion in Western Europe, or large size/different religion in Eastern Europe; they'll assimilate just fine once they migrate.

That is, unless you're talking about Vicky 2, because then I wouldn't know (might be the reason why I've no idea what a "core pop" is).
Yea, I'm talking Vicky 2. Basically, in Vicky 2 they've improved the system in a number of ways. For one thing, you can no longer manually promote pops (codespeak for for turning all Jews into capitalists), instead for the most part the economy itself changes pop promotion and demotion and you can only influence it towards directions (which generally means steady growing trend) but this uses up a National Focus point in the state.

Clergy's also different now (and the system with them was fine-tuned to its best iteration with the latest expansion DLC), with clergymen providing Research Points (several pop types do this), increasing Literacy improvement, and lowering Consciousness (read: Making people willing to accept absolute monarchy). Of course, if Press laws are laxed from absolute state control, Literacy will start having a huge impact on increasing Consciousness.

Vicky 2 also automated assimilation into a gradual process, with individual pop stacks having the possibility of slowly converting members of the pop into members of an existing primary/accepted culture pop. The process is influenced by conditions and modifiers where Literacy, standard of living, Consciousness, Militancy, Religion, and so on are factored in to determine whether or not anyone's assimilating. Pops living in territory where a country that has them as Primary or Accepted culture holds cores will almost never assimilate, as the presence of the core is a huge negative effect on assimilation. Types of culture can also be modified to affect the assimilation, for example by default Afro-Americans can assimilate, but mods can change this so that African culture group pops NEVER assimilate into non-African pops. In vanilla, only Jews have assimilation and conversion resistance, though they can flip culture (generally one of my primary goals as Austria-Hungary is to have a huge Jewish South German capitalist pop in Prague).
 

Grinolf

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Paradox hasn't "abandoned" the pop system. It's simply not part of the EU gameplay model, which is essentially the baseline game that other Paradox games build on top of, it's supposed to be more simple and accessible (and some might say... Streamlined). Baby's First Paradox Grand Strategy Game and all that. Pops are Victoria's thing.

It isn't only brand issue, but also perfomance issue. And even if it's cool to wish, that there is some crazy mix between CK, Victoria and HOI, there isn't home system, which can handle it. And also it would not be a profitable, since very large amount of workhours be needed to create this and, most importantly, bugfix it.
But i would like to see new trade route system in Victoria 3, and I hope they integrate raid system from CK to EU 4 for colonial and horde warfare. And yes, some suply lines would be nice, since seing 100k european army in China hurt my estetic feelings.
On contrary, detailed POP system isn't realy needed for dealing with various minorites. But it isn't matter, since Paradox rejected minority system, because they can't have historically accurate minorities in all world for any start date. And because of that, they preffered not do it at all. Which, frankly speaking, is total bullshit. There is plenty ahistorical mechanic in they games. Most notably Japan in DW. And I don't belife they didn't see Dei Grata code, which mostly automated creation of minorites on the begining game based on state religion and religion in neighboring provinces.
 
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Clergy's also different now (and the system with them was fine-tuned to its best iteration with the latest expansion DLC), with clergymen providing Research Points (several pop types do this), increasing Literacy improvement, and lowering Consciousness (read: Making people willing to accept absolute monarchy). Of course, if Press laws are laxed from absolute state control, Literacy will start having a huge impact on increasing Consciousness.

Vicky 2 also automated assimilation into a gradual process, with individual pop stacks having the possibility of slowly converting members of the pop into members of an existing primary/accepted culture pop. The process is influenced by conditions and modifiers where Literacy, standard of living, Consciousness, Militancy, Religion, and so on are factored in to determine whether or not anyone's assimilating. Pops living in territory where a country that has them as Primary or Accepted culture holds cores will almost never assimilate, as the presence of the core is a huge negative effect on assimilation. Types of culture can also be modified to affect the assimilation, for example by default Afro-Americans can assimilate, but mods can change this so that African culture group pops NEVER assimilate into non-African pops. In vanilla, only Jews have assimilation and conversion resistance, though they can flip culture (generally one of my primary goals as Austria-Hungary is to have a huge Jewish South German capitalist pop in Prague).

Actually, that's more or less the same way Clergy worked in the original (except I think the part about literacy). What I gather from the wiki the biggest change is that clergy now only affects literacy/conciousness of their own religious pops, which is a great improvement.

I'm still not totally happy with the way assimilation works, gradual or not. The idea still is (if I'm not missing some change) that a lax minority policy encourages assimilation, while an aggressive one doesn't; this might make sense in some cases, but in others it doesn't (for instance, in our hypothetical Vicky-EU hybrid, Jews would be more likely to assimilate under the Moors, than under the Spaniards, which I'm pretty sure shouldn't be the case). Also, the problem with it is that it's a one-way street: African Americans assimilate one year, and the next year Know Nothings get power with their enthusiastic support. It just leads to weird effects, and that's why I'd prefer it to be either scrapped or replaced with the intermarriage thing I mentioned: spaniards and indians become mestizo, blacks and french become creole, english and european immigrants in North America become yankees, etc.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Gawd, it's been ages since I last played original Vicky. Though I'm not really missing it, Vicky 2 improves it all around and the Clausewitz engine is much better than Europa.
 

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