Fate/karma points and the like

[Varvarg]

What is the Codex stance on these? Basically allowing instant success, "not dying", rerolls.

I'm working on a tabletop RPG at the moment, and I have nothing of the sort.

I remember in the WH40k dark heresy game you had that "instant success" by permanently subtracting a point. You could always be awarded more points by GM. We killed off some uberdemon that way. Dark heresy is really hard in the beginning though

I'm considering allowing rerolls once every session, but im not sure yet. Convince me.

 

[Excidium II]

I think it only belongs in games with complex chargen + high lethality.

It lets people risk a bit and not play like complete pussies all the time. I like the way it works in Deadlands where your fate is also your xp so you have the C&C of using it in-session to get better rolls/avoid injuries or saving to cash in later and develop your character.

Also in Deadlands, the GM gets fate too.

 

[Varvarg]

I think it only belongs in games with complex chargen + high lethality.

Yes. I have a horror game in the works. You can very easily get one-shotted. During playtesting, I got hit in the head by the first zombie. Double damage. Was left with 1 HP (out of 16).

Also you have bleeding and the likes.

You have a point

 

[Galdred]

It depends. The good point is that it makes it more "fair" to kill PC, and does not force the GM to cheat as often to avoid a massacre.
But then, once the pool is depleted, it drastically lowers the chance of getting stuff done, and you could as well mercy kill the PC (assuming the system is close to Warhammer, not Star Wars D20 where you get a ton force points per level).

What I did in one homebrew system was to make XP be usable to reroll, like Excidium described, but they would still increase the skill they were used to reroll. That allowed me to steer the character progression of the players by presenting them with a certain type of challenges (basically, if you used your XP to reroll a skill check, these points would also give a discount on raising the skill, so you had to choose between allocating skill points where you wanted to or keeping them to randomly raise the skills you would not want to fail).

 

[Varvarg]

hah, i actually like this idea. XP for rerolls. Yup.

Can't brofist yet, but here's a

 

[Zombra]

Stuff like this is great to give players a resource for success besides "hope you roll well" or "my character is good at X Y Z so never attempt anything besides X Y Z". It's also nice to give the players a mechanical safety net so the GM can throw stuff at them without having to worry it's too much. 10 owlbears, fine, they can use fate points to escape if it gets too crazy. But since those points aren't infinite it actually makes things edgier than "well, the DM will fudge the dice every time instead of killing us all because that's no fun".

I think in a horror game the threat of permadeath needs to be real though ... PCs should die and miraculous escapes shouldn't happen. "Get out free cards" shouldn't exist. Character generation should be relatively quick and easy so players don't waste a huge time investment on a character who may die, and players should be extra cautious about doing dangerous stuff. In a fantasy game it's good to jump on the back of a rampaging dinosaur and hope it works out, but you don't want antics like this in a horror game.

 

[Varvarg]

yes, they are facing off some really sick shit. Think first Alien movie, with the nigh invincible xenomorph. I want to promote sneaking and alternate routes

Thats why i'm considering some middle ground, and only allowing rerolls. Maybe using XP or only once per session.

 

[Zombra]

The question isn't how badass are the enemies, the question is whether you want PCs to die (to be precise, how worried you want the players to be about characters actually dying ... which you can only have if PCs do die sometimes). A superhero game can have Galactus as an antagonist but people still do crazy shit because the consequences won't be fatal.

 

[Grunker]

I like 'em. They give strategic options that enable characters to take major risks at least once in a while. I encourage player's to spend them in creative and roleplaying-like manners, but use this as a baseline in Pathfinder:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/hero-points/

and this as a baseline in my Shadowrun campaigns, which I run in GURPS.

 

[nikolokolus]

I think it's a nice mechanic for games where character continuity is desirable. It's also a nice touch to give them to your "important" villains; makes for a nice out when the NPC needs to make a get away and become a recurring pain in the ass.

 

[Eadee]

I really like those. Willpower in WoD, Karma/Edge in Shadowrun etc.

They help to reduce the slapstick factor of botches in scenes where the mood would be ruined, and they allow to make neat things awesome.

There's really no reason to not use them, unless your system is a parody on roleplaying games like paranoia and stuff like that, where your goal is to get as much hilarious scenes as possible. But even then you could use those same points to force botches instead of preventing them.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I don't remember the name, but a game has a card system that I really like. A few a distributed to each player at the beginning of a mission. They are not just mere "rerolls", but they allow for other things, like more willpower, building rapport with an enemy, triggering a disaster that affects the whole environment, etc.

 

[Grunker]

Savage Worlds?

 

[Varvarg]

Well, I've gone with 'destiny points' for now, allowing rerolls. 1 DP/session

I dont know how many times I've changed the core system now. The regular skill checks are pretty much in place (just roll under or equal).

The problem is when there's active opposition. I'm not a fan of the old: roll to hit, roll to dodge (and always dodge if successful). It can take a long while, and doesn't feel all that deep. So for a time, I tried "roll highest, add skill value" for these kinds of rolls. But then I realized this system actually makes it HARDER to succeed when attacking someone who's unconscious. Well. Sometimes atleast. The base bonus for attacking unaware is +3. But if your skill value is over 3 points higher than the defender...

Really triggers my autism.

So I kept the roll to hit, roll to dodge. But dodge is now modified by the attack skill to a degree. I saw a similar system in an old Mutant game (pretty sure they have been translated to Engrish). But t-that's not fair, the attacker's stats should also be modified!, I hear you say. Well, while Mutant was an overrated piece of clunky crap, my goal is to streamline the rules, and balance them. Already the defender (or opposition) has the advantage in ties. Many of the (negative) combat mods will only affect the attacker. So in the end the system will be faster, and be balanced, because of this.

 

[Eadee]

Sounds good to me.
I'm used to the whole "roll under or equal" with "active attack an defense rolls" from The Dark Eye (4.1), so I know the struggle.

However in The Dark Eye, you can give up your defensive action to make an offensive one and vice versa. There are special abilities that allow multiple attacks and the like, while everyone only has one defensive action by default. Fighting more than one enemy also means that you're only able to parry one, unless you give up your attack action. That also speeds up combat, and works allright I think.

Only duels between two guys with equal number of actions and equal skill take pretty long, but I think that this is exactly how it should be making duels between equal enemies a exhausting struggle that takes a lot of time.

 

[Varvarg]

Got any links for your project? I'm aiming for a digital release, of a modest sum (RPG Drive?). I dont have any web page yet :/ And I should probably make a thread about it. I guess I can use this one for the time being.

I chose infinite dodge and the like. I know there are games that limits number of defensive manouvers, or additional with a penality. I think with the current damage balance, the PCs would be very much screwed unless they have some better defensive options. When you are in the lair of the interdimensional tentacle rapist with multiple attacks, you want to avoid all the slimy appendages coming for you. Or not.

Anyways, here's the name of the game. Ignore the rest, it's WiP and placeholder. But I do plan to use grainy public domain horror footage

 

[Eadee]

It's not '"my" project. It's the most popular rpg in Germany (essentially it's as popular as d&d is in the US).

Sadly the 4th edition was never fully translated to english https://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=8841 and the 5th edition has issues...

 

[Varvarg]

It's not '"my" project. It's the most popular rpg in Germany (essentially it's as popular as d&d is in the US).

Sadly the 4th edition was never fully translated to english https://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=8841 and the 5th edition has issues...

Ah, misread. Never heard of it, sadly. Seems every country has an D&D/standard fantasy clone.

Hell, I'm pretty sure i sketched on one myself when i was a kid.